Proper belt deflection on my 2013 1100T forces belt too low into secondary

[fire800]

I just need to put my 2 cents in..I had last years 2012 xf 1100 turbo 141.1.5 track.2.0 boondocker on.and some clutching.I proved the sled..Never blew a belt.We ran it for roughly 1500ft back and forth 10 times..That sled worked awsum..Went out this year and bought a 2013 F1100 turbo RR.It has a 129 track on it.1.25 lug..No track at all..ALLLLLL bone stock!!!!! First 25 miles were a riot!!!!!! TILL BANGGGGGG!!!!!Ya not impressed..MERRY $#%&*!% CHRISTMAS!!!.$17500.00 Sled.Put another 3 belts in it and same.BANGGGG.Yes i should have stopped after the first blew but i though bahhhhhh i need to ride with the rest of the holiday.Yes......The belt forsure is too narrow and short..The belt is snapping..Hurrrrrrryyyyy up CAT and give me my UPDATE!!!!The rest of the sled is flawless.KNOCK KNOCK ON WOOD!!

 

[fire800]

350 MILES!!!!!! Magical is right!!!!!

 

[JustBoostIt]

Got a bit of testing in this weekend, blew some belts. Have an 084 on now but never got to wind it up as it was late in the day. With the 082 I could see the primary was slipping and was fully shifted out. At the same time the secondary was a full roller from shifting out. This is a '13 clutch with a cutler torsional kit. I could not take more shims out and it was squealing still so I know it was too short for proper deflection but that doesn't explain why it didn't shift out more. Due to a nagging body injury I couldn't do any more field testing. The alignment is bang on. Hopefully time for some playing without springs this week to see how the 082 works in this set up and some track stand with marked clutch faces to see how they are shifting.

Once we have that squared away (without load) it will be on to locking the motor and jackshaft down. I will start a new post with findings.

 

[10003514]

Got out in some decent snow, 082 belt had 300km on it stock last season. Put 70km on it yesterday with BC250 kit. Belt looked fine at the end of the day, stopped and checked it a few times during the day was pretty hot. Will be going out a couple more times this week. Thanks Gene for the setup sled ran awesome all day.

 

[Woody67]

Do you guys think there is anything abnormal about this? The sled is shifted out all the way on the stand. The fixed and movable face of the primary are fully shifted and touching. Look at how the center of the belt in the secondary is being bowed in. It would be going through this contortion over and over while riding. I have never put one on a stand and inspected it like this so what do you all think?

 

[0neoldfart]

Still on original belt...

Still running the original Cat belt with 350 miles on it with a BC 250 kit & cold air kit, EVO BRV. My setup is slightly different, running a Team Tied & MDS weights, cat vented panels & intercooler fan. So far no slippage or evidence of popped cords, EVO kit was instaled before it hit the snow. I will continue to update throughout the season - perhaps the Tied setup may be the answer...

 

[JustBoostIt]

Bowed belt

Wouldn't that indicate the side angle of the belt is cut too steep. If the top was flat you'd think the bottom of the side wouldn't be touching. Is the belt sitting in the primary like that too?

Can you see from between the clutches if the sides of the belt are making full contact with the sheaves? And if it's possible can you force the belt up from the center (screwdriver) to make the top flat....and does it pull the bottom of the side away from making contact. This might not be possible depending on spring pressure.

Good eye Woody.

 

[Woody67]

You can see from the photo that as the belt leaves the secondary it is nice and flat. It also looks, to me, quite normal in the primary. Nice and flat good contact. I wonder if this is what many of the guys who have been machining the secondary faces are trying to fix? I have ridden the sled since doing this test. Both clutches shifted out to where I think they should as evidenced by the removal of our markings in both clutches. Broke the belt in for 10-12 miles real easy and then started doing some pulls. Running new clutching to load the motor harder and it ran great but clutches were still too hot. With repeated pulls could smell belt but very little evidence of slipping ie. belt dust. After a few pulls and cool downs went to a new area did some pulls, let it cool down and went to leave and kaboom belt destroyed.

Hope to get the vented panels and blankets on it this week.

 

[fire800]

Good pics!!!! Them pics show all truth!!!! Cats off to another good year.... Wonder what they will be giving us this year end season??? A update belt???Another year warranty???Why should I spend more money cutting sheaves to make these sleds work? I am a h-core cat fan but what's the sense already??These 12/13 line up of new chassis were not even to be released and they were for the 50th year !!! Now we are paying for it. All was good until the last of the 11s. Trouble free. Nothing will change till them clutches are changed!!!!!!!!!

 

[Turbo11T]

You can see from the photo that as the belt leaves the secondary it is nice and flat. It also looks, to me, quite normal in the primary. Nice and flat good contact. I wonder if this is what many of the guys who have been machining the secondary faces are trying to fix? I have ridden the sled since doing this test. Both clutches shifted out to where I think they should as evidenced by the removal of our markings in both clutches. Broke the belt in for 10-12 miles real easy and then started doing some pulls. Running new clutching to load the motor harder and it ran great but clutches were still too hot. With repeated pulls could smell belt but very little evidence of slipping ie. belt dust. After a few pulls and cool downs went to a new area did some pulls, let it cool down and went to leave and kaboom belt destroyed.

Hope to get the vented panels and blankets on it this week.

Could quite possibly the sheaves on the secondary not be machined to the right angle? It seems odd but I don't know that it would create a huge issue? Would it be that the Belt is worn funny? Could it be that the stock belt is to soft and will flex?

At full shift was the belt near bottoming out in the secondary?

 

[Woody67]

Could quite possibly the sheaves on the secondary not be machined to the right angle? It seems odd but I don't know that it would create a huge issue? Would it be that the Belt is worn funny? Could it be that the stock belt is to soft and will flex?

At full shift was the belt near bottoming out in the secondary?

Belt in photo is new. Look at photo 2 and you can see where the rollers are in relation to the helix. This clutch has shift out spacer in it so I don't think it could open any further. I am heading out to do this test on an M sled and see how it looks fully shifted.

 

[Evo1]

Belt in photo is new. Look at photo 2 and you can see where the rollers are in relation to the helix. This clutch has shift out spacer in it so I don't think it could open any further. I am heading out to do this test on an M sled and see how it looks fully shifted.

Thank you for the good work, Woody. We have 2 nearly identical sleds - one with a BC275 and one with a SC315 experimental tune. Both sleds have shredded belts in deep snow with very few miles. We will be testing new belts this weekend along with a different secondary calibration on the SC315. The BC275 will be the control sled.

This problem will be solved shortly.

Todd
EVO

 

[Cold_puss]

The worst part, my mangled clutch cover and cracked belly pan as a result of 8 plus belts. Not to mention the mountain of shrapnel that will not stop re-appearing. Let hope this is fixed soon!!

 

[machz9805]

Just curious as I just picked up a used 1100 T. Is Cat offering warranty for all these broken belts?

 

[Woody67]

Static shift out test on M-Sled shows similar bowing of the belt in secondary.

 

[Turbo11T]

Static shift out test on M-Sled shows similar bowing of the belt in secondary.

Good to know that the bowing of the belt is likely not what is causing the issues on these sleds now.

 

[machz9805]

Just curious as I just picked up a used 1100 T. Is Cat offering warranty for all these broken belts?

After some further reading I guess no warranty....I should of known.

The original owner of my sled put on 500 miles last year of mountain riding, still had original belt on when I picked it up. Over the summer it had the update spacer put in. I installed a new belt just to start off the season with a fresh belt, put on about 50 easy miles to break it in on the first day. This past weekend I put on 40 miles in 2 feet of powder, pulled the belt off last evening and it's toast. Sidewall and cords are good, it's the inside cogs that has the damange.

This sled went 500 miles without a spacer and no belt failure, and now only 90 miles with spacer in....interesting. I'm tempted to pull it out and try a fresh belt to see what happens.

 

[Turbo11T]

After some further reading I guess no warranty....I should of known.

The original owner of my sled put on 500 miles last year of mountain riding, still had original belt on when I picked it up. Over the summer it had the update spacer put in. I installed a new belt just to start off the season with a fresh belt, put on about 50 easy miles to break it in on the first day. This past weekend I put on 40 miles in 2 feet of powder, pulled the belt off last evening and it's toast. Sidewall and cords are good, it's the inside cogs that has the damange.

This sled went 500 miles without a spacer and no belt failure, and now only 90 miles with spacer in....interesting. I'm tempted to pull it out and try a fresh belt to see what happens.

Alot of the trail guys over on HCS are pulling the spacer back out. . . I am not advising either way I am just saying for food for thought.

 

[s2h]

I went my whole first season (800 mountain miles) with no blown belt. Put the spacer in and blew a belt in 90 miles.

Took the spacer out and put another 180 miles on last week. some real long hard pulls with rolling bumps that unload the track and get some big shift out. Stuff got hot but no blown belt. I will be leaving my spacer out.

I now carry 2 spare belts just in case though. nothing like blowing a belt on the side of a hill with 4' of fresh powder on it just to change the belt and ride like a little old lady for the rest of the day because you are too scared to destroy your last belt and get towed or helicoptered home.

I would hate to have someone steal my sled. I am not sure my insurance company would cover the nearly $900 bucks worth of belts under my hood.

LOL.

 

[Turbo11T]

Look at this thing. Looks dangerous. But I like the idea. Don't know if it is the answer. But idea seems solid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jAulxUf_3HM