Poo or Doo, Which manufacturer is smarter....

[Ron]

Easy one DOO, poo pays royalities for the technology doo invents.
Case in point is electronic reverese, doo invented it poo pays a royalty for every sled it's on. Another case BRP bought the FICHT oil/fuel injection patent from OMC and licenses it to all the other two stroke out board manufactures who use it.
Who put first plastic skii's, altitude compenstation mountain bars on sled's
DOO.
Who was the very last manufacturer to put power valves on consumer sleds?
poo!

Poo doesn't pay any royalty they got free rights for the ER as a settlement for Doos patent infringement on the rear suspension that they copied from Poo. Poo had altitude compensators long before Doo. Doo also copied the change to track pitch that Poo made last year to reduce cleats and weight although Doo used a slightly different pitch. Doo copied the hollow drive shaft from Poo and the list goes on. What they didn't copy was the superior clutching of the other 3 mfct's, something they sorely need.

 

[Ace Freely]

As a whole bpr is a "More Solid" company than Poo. Case in point is how bpr owns the watercraft market, sled market, and slowly the quad market. They push the envelope, and most of the times it works well, other times not so much. Gotta give them credit.


Ace

 

[Ollie]

If Polaris could build and sell 10,000 800 Dragons they would have,right now they are trying to get the sleds to the 2000 who snowchecked them and haven't yet.The are not saving the snowmobile market they merely sold a handfull that they could build.

At the beginning of the snowcheck season Poo said "we are building this many and they will be delivered on this time line".
And what do you know. They built that many and are on track to deliver on time. The dealers told people that the sleds wouldn't be here till dec, early Jan.

 

[badkitty]

Are you kidding me???

If it weren't for doo, poo would still have trailing arms. I hope doo keeps pushing the envelope with chassis design and yamaha keeps pushing the four stroke technology, these two companys have the balls to lead the industry and not tag along like the other two.

If it weren't for Doo, Poo would still have trailing arms?! Tag along like the other two?? I get such a kick out of this kind of rhetoric. I remember hearing for YEARS how the trailing arms setup was so superior to Cats A arm setup. It took all three of the other company's two decades to finally put them on there sleds, and now it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Correct me if I'm wrong but Doo has only been pushing the (ENVELOPE) of chassis design for about 5 years now.. Is it a good thing? Yes. But don't try and say they have been the driving force in tech advances in the industry, that's just bull.. How about diamond drive, everyone that rides a poo or doo says it's just a joke. We'll see how their tune changes when they both run similar versions in a few years. Bateryless EFI, comes to mind...No way man carbs are so much better...LOL.

 

[Ultralord]

You have to be kidding.... you really think anyone really limits the sales of something if they didnt have to? sj

It is done all the time Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Boeing,Bmw if you want your product to have perceived value this is what you do if you dont than build more than you can sell GM Ford and you sell them at cost to get rid of them and devalue your product

 

[johnny be bad]

Is it Doo for flooding the market with xp's or Poo for not flooding the market with dragons......If the xp is turning out to be a percieved problem child like the 900 was percieved, then it could spell disaster if you own a Doo....
On the other hand, not many Dragons will be on the market. If it has issues, less for Poo to deal with, if it doesn't then it'll be a sled to get your hands on next year....
Let the rebutal begin....

there all dumba$$e$! doo cant build a clutch, cat cant keep up with the times, yamahas to fat and polaris is figuring out how to regain some glory from yester years. and were all dumb enough to listen and believe them! thats my.2 cents worth! lol

 

[RX1Guy]

yamahas to fat

Yamaha doesnt really care because at the beginning of the day, the guy about to get on the yamaha isnt going to wonder if his sled will make it the whole day without messing up.

 

[PJ-Hunter]

Doo is doing the same thing with their line up as polaris did. Too many options, too many variations. Yea, allows you to get the sled you want, but it makes it confusing trying to keep track of what options were available on what sleds.

Doo has a very loyal following (same as Poo did). People will run out and buy the newest and the best because it's yellow and says Ski-Doo on it.

Doo WILL goof up. Same as Polaris did. It is GOING to happen. The trick is to know when you buy new and when to wait. I personally will never buy a first year sled just because of the 900 RMK. For those that ran out and bought an XP, thanks. We need test riders to see if the chassis will actually stand up.

i don't care if the XP motor falls apart, I am just interested in the chassis. If it works you will see the other 3 copy (too one degree or another) the XP chassis. Good for all of us.

Doo did goof up! Can you say RT1000?

 

[MARV1]

Exactly!

Doo did goof up! Can you say RT1000?

And all the hype about the Poo 900 overshadowed the demise of Doo's failures. And even with all the problems the Doo's have the hype of them being so called #1 still brings sales to them. Owners just can't learn that they are buying junk and the manufacturer doesn't give a hoot about servicing them. LOL.

I'll stick with my Poo lineup and be happy that I can ride it day in and day out and it will keep on going.

 

[Ollie]

Doo did goof up! Can you say RT1000?

True, but the desaster that was the poo 700/900 overshadowed the RT1000.
Besides the Doo riders still had their 800 series sleds to ride. Polaris bet the whole farm on the 700/900 big block sleds and the farm was repo'd.

With Doo flooding the market with sleds they may very well (IMO) end up in the same boat as polaris was. Dealers not wanting to buy new product because they have too much left over stock from last year.

 

[f3600]

A few have nailed it.

05/06 - The Poo 900 was a problematic sled and the Internet helped fuel its demise. There wasn't a 800 option and folks left. 06 Polaris IQ chassis starts to surpasses the REV in ride technology and comfort. Doo had set the standard 04/05/06 in chassis and is riding that technology wave. RT1000 is problematic but overshadowed by the Poo 900 and gets a collective pass from the public.

07 - Doo XRS had issues and many still unresolved today. Dragon introduced in limited numbers and is an over achiver.

08 - Doo XP appears to be a problem child again. Will they get a pass from the public? 800 Dragon appears solid and will regain consumer confidence.

CAT - Through all of this got caught in between a flat lander chassis change and had to dump its non-emissions meeting 700 engine and put out a average 800 and a good 1000. Poor snow in the flat land has hurt them the most I think as they flooded the market with their new flat-lander chassis in 07 and the dealers have lots of inventory.

Yam - they are their own market with 100% 4S but the nytro may get them some traction but I predict they will keep their normal 17-19% market share.

I think we all have to remember that these sleds have 4-5 year product development lifecycles and long vendor lead times so major changes 10 months before production build aren't as easy as we'd like to think.

Also market share is based on wholesale numbers and not retail numbers.

 

[Shake&Bake]

Lil' misinformed??

Easy one DOO, poo pays royalities for the technology doo invents.
Case in point is electronic reverese, doo invented it poo pays a royalty for every sled it's on. Another case BRP bought the FICHT oil/fuel injection patent from OMC and licenses it to all the other two stroke out board manufactures who use it.
Who put first plastic skii's, altitude compenstation mountain bars on sled's
DOO.
Who was the very last manufacturer to put power valves on consumer sleds?
poo!

Wow! Thats a great argument. Completely BS and totally based on false info but a great argument nonetheless.

Case in point is how Doo copied rear suspension components and also had to discontinue the production of their "Precision" dual carbide ski's due to complete and total THEFT of a copyrighted and patented design by Poo and Poo affiliates. To make the whole mess of Doo COPYING everyone (mainly Poo) go away, Doo was forced to settle the lawsuit by giving their RER tech to Polaris to use. THATS why Polaris has Electronic reverse, same as Doo, while Cat was left to figure out the electro-mechanical thing.

Altitude compensators were on select OLD Polaris models LONG before the first DOO had them. And Doo isnt too far ahead in the altitude compensation game anyway, as EFI is still far superior. Thank Cat for EFI, not Doo.

A-Arm front suspensions?? Thank Cat as well.

Doo hasnt "Pushed the Envelope" as much as people think. The Rev chassis was great, but as you can see, it wasnt for everyone, as Poo and Cat have had great sales of different versions of "rider forward". Cat brought the mass closer with the lay-down engine, Poo couldnt get the lay-down thing right so they went a different way with the RAW chassis. All brands have their followers, it's just after 10 years of Doo's blowing cranks, p1ss poor clutches and not one person from BRP taking responisbility for it and giving out customer support, they can take their product and shove it.

As for Poo, they are sticking to the Jaguar "hand-built" car theory. If you take longer per sled to produce, you may reduce the amount of error per machine. We will see if it works or not. But Poo might be slowing down on production due to an overall slump of sled-sales for all 4 brands in the last few years. Maybe Poo is going to slow down on sleds, and concentrate on their ATV production and Victory bikes. That might be a possibility.

I hope not.

 

[buck50]

If Polaris is truly holding the Dragon's back to keep the demand higher, then yes, they are fairly smart for doing so. However, if it is simply because they under estimated the demand for the product and can't get their production up to meet this higher demand, then I would say "shame on you" Polaris.

As for Ski-Doo, I hope the new XP turns out to be good. I hate to see guys spending $11k on a sled and not being extrememly happy with it

track~

the reason there are not more poo's out is because the engine( or just the block, whatever) is built by another company, and THEY are unable to produce more for this year. poo wants more, they just can't get anymore

 

[trinitypowder]

Yamaha doesnt really care because at the beginning of the day, the guy about to get on the yamaha isnt going to wonder if his sled will make it the whole day without messing up.

he only has to worry about messing up his back

 

[IRONMAN]

That's the risk you take when you don't buy the finest snowmobile on the market. You either buy a new year Yammie or you wait and see if the others have a good or bad year.

Well put!! LMAO

 

[Carlos Randolph]

.02

Sales = manufacturer competition, competition = product developement....

For what ever reason people want Doo or Poo to fail with their perspective new sleds....why? They are both state of the art purpose built highperformance machines, that ten years ago couldn't even been imagined.

Not gospel, but I am pretty sure BRP owns "OMC" i.e. Evenrude/Johnson and their patents covering their 2stroke injection systems. BRP has the 2010 emission thing coverd, and has for some time. BRP'S 170hp 1000sdi was no joke, the chassie they put it in was not well accepted in the Mountains (a tank), due to it's weight.Just was to a much smaller degree than the 900 poo. Don't think for a minute that doo dumped that 1000 motor program all together. The bigger question is what Poo and Cat can do for a 2010 compliant motor with equal HP to BRP and not infringe on the afore mentioned patent???????

Is the XP 800r junk? no.....not perfect either, but it is a bad a55 sled and far from a jaloppy nodoubt. Did they build to many? Most if not all of the Upper Mid west has rideable snow before X-mas, not just the West this year. Time will tell......I own a XPX 800r 146 and yes my handwarmers quit, and no I have not blown a belt yet in 300 plus miles....it rips

Polaris has hedged their bet by only making what they can for sure sell, and put out a great sled as well, from the reports of those that actually have theirs, but they have learnd from their mistakes I belive.

Yamaha is going their own way, and building on their already loyal base of customers. If they keep making leaps forward like they have over the last few years, BRP and Poo could be in serious trouble because it wil be a seriuos 3 way fight for #1

 

[Mod-R]

Yes, they do. Can you say Harley Davidson?
Allows you to keep manufacturing costs down. After the 05/06 polaris backlog of sleds I don't think you will see them flooding the market.

They can make good money and not have a huge inventory left over by better control over their production.

YEP: Harleys board is limiting production to limit availability to keep prices
up. To show for it their stock price is dropping and their workers are pissed
they have to take mandatory vacations whenever the board of directors want to halt production. Read the cycle and business mags beat harley up
for their management practices to artifically keep their prices higher than the import cruizers.

 

[Slick]

Yeah right, get serious. Whats with the folks that bash on Harleys marketing and sales #'s. Theres not a manufacturer out there who doesn't wish they had the marketing mystique and success that HD has managed. Good product or not, they've been # 1 for a long time and they're still the one after all these years in styling, comfort and convenience that the others are constantly reacting to.
I like some of the Metric bikes and Victorys, but we put a lot of miles on, and usually after a 2 or 3 week trip, especially if they're 2-up riders, you've got a good candidate for a new Harley when you get back. And fellas, all style is cool in front of the bar downtown, but it ain't so cool when its rainin like hell, cold and getting dark.
Case in point ......I don't think there are many of us sitting around saying, thank God we didn't buy a bunch of HD stock 30 years ago or so.

 

[Xrider]

Neither company sells enough sleds or makes enough profit anymore to warrant a significant investment in design and testing. They just survive with a handfull of engineers and designers that put together ok stuff and we all buy it.

 

[WFO or go home]

Limiting the production numbers is the single BEST thing anyone can do to save the sled market. As of now the REV's are holding their resale well but if the XP turns out to be a rocker, there will be a lot more of them for sale next year which will drag down the resale value.

Limiting the initial offering on the 800 Dragon is a safe bet. That way if there are major issues, they are limiting their exposure. Unlike the 900 RMK that they proclaimed it would be "limited availability," then they built about 5000 to many. Now they sell for wholesale every day and not a penny more.

As for which one is smarter, I say it is the first company to stop building sleds.