Please explain the healthcare resistance

[ruffryder]

You are going way out on a limb here. We are not only talking about catastophic coverage, I am just using that example to stay true to Stem's thread (although it does hold true). People can and will go to the doctor for EVERYTHING. Give people a positive incentive to go to the doctor (free!) and see what happens.

Agreed, that is a problem, but I don't buy the risk issue with it. I am more worried about people going that shouldn't be going (non-issues or very minor issues). You are right, there would need to be a "per -visit" fee or something, as there needs to be a negative feedback mechanism to keep usage to those that are necessary (determined by willingness to pay).

 

[Pinner]

you will forever be slave to the master that provides this service for you.

Sometimes I wonder if the reluctance to universal health care is based on a fear that the government would be in control of decisions about your health.

This is not the case in Canada, the only decisions made about my health are made by me and my Doctors, and I can change Doctors at will if I don't like their opinion. Sure government employees currently managing some part of the system are all trying to control costs by limiting overtime and paving a parking lot next year or whatever... Just like any other business, but nobody interferes with health care.

If a politician starts talking about changing health care for the worse, they had better be looking for another career.

 

[duffman]

You sure? I hate going to the Dr now cause I hate waiting and all the other stuff....so I stay away, and my primary Dr is FREE. I even avoid going to the ER cause I hate dealing with it (and it is damn near free) I took a week to go in for pain pills for messed up ribs, I hate it that much.

My point it is, nothing will really change in my opinion, those who run to the Dr will run no matter and those who stay away will stay away.

I am the same as you in this regard, and I can't remember the last time I went to the doctor. I think you are right, the hypocondriacs will continue to go every week, and you and I will continue not to go. But by getting rid of the negative financial incentive you are freeing up many more people to abuse the system.

 

[defysgravity]

Sometimes I wonder if the reluctance to universal health care is based on a fear that the government would be in control of decisions about your health..

That...and the fact our government has a reeeeal good track record and a fine example in Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans Admin, Social Security....The feds can't even take care of our soldiers with the same expediency, care and availability as the private sector with out being such a bueracratic nightmare that a lot of vets turn to help through other avenues...

 

[duffman]

Sometimes I wonder if the reluctance to universal health care is based on a fear that the government would be in control of decisions about your health.

This is not the case in Canada, the only decisions made about my health are made by me and my Doctors, and I can change Doctors at will if I don't like their opinion. Sure government employees currently managing some part of the system are all trying to control costs by limiting overtime and paving a parking lot next year or whatever... Just like any other business, but nobody interferes with health care.

If a politician starts talking about changing health care for the worse, they had better be looking for another career.

Absolutely that is where a lot of the resistance comes in. I do not want the government to have any more control of my life.

I am glad that you are happy with your health insurance (and the taxes that go along with it). That system is not for me, nor will it work in the United States.

 

[defysgravity]

Your claims are nowhere to be found.. there are wait times here just as much.... I did the checking, and your claims are off base.. or at least jaded to one side...

Just checked....still there in Wikipedia under Canadian and Healthcare comparisons...slide down till you get to the technology part..

The feds need to focus on the economy....not healthcare...but it is on some peoples agenda to get re-elected.
I still think a federally mandated program in the US is a bad idea....
Have the feds regulate the insurance industry like public utilities but stay out of "healthcare"... should be viable...
Let the states work on state plans and give them the incentive to do so....
Pass a law banning all unhealthy foods.

 

[Pinner]

Just checked....still there in Wikipedia under Canadian and Healthcare comparisons...slide down till you get to the technology part..

Why slide down to there, read the whole thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems

It's common knowledge U.S.Doctors have to protect themselves from any possible malpractice suits, everyone knows U.S. Doctors do most testing just to cover their azzes.

Last time I was at the hospital there was a guy checking in for a MRI because he had a headache, checking for a clot I guess.

If Canadians are living longer do we need more MRI and CT scanners ?

Wikipedia
Technology
The United States spends more on technology than Canada. In a 2004 study on medical imaging in Canada,[94] it was found that Canada had 4.6 MRI scanners per million population while the U.S. had 19.5 per million. Canada's 10.3 CT scanners per million also ranked behind the U.S., which had 29.5 per million.[95] The study did not attempt to assess whether the difference in the number of MRI and CT scanners had any effect on the medical outcomes or were a result of overcapacity but did observe that MRI scanners are used more intensively in Canada than either the U.S. or Great Britain.[96] This disparity in the availability of technology, some believe, results in longer wait times. In 1984 wait times of up to 22 months for an MRI were alleged in Saskatchewan. [97] However, according to more recent official statistics (2007), all emergency patients receive MRIs within 24 hours, those classified as urgent receive them in under 3 weeks and the maximum elective wait time is 19 weeks in Regina and 26 weeks in Saskatoon, the province's two largest metropolitan areas. [98]

 

[stem]

How much do you pay for a new sled over there?

Hold on to your hat's.....a brand new Assault (as stock as it gets) costs $28500

 

[defysgravity]

Why slide down to there, read the whole thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems

It's common knowledge U.S.Doctors have to protect themselves from any possible malpractice suits, everyone knows U.S. Doctors do most testing just to cover their azzes.

Last time I was at the hospital there was a guy checking in for a MRI because he had a headache, checking for a clot I guess.

If Canadians are living longer do we need more MRI and CT scanners ?

See....I wish I could remember how to do that whole high light, cut and paste thingy...thanks for doing that...I was getting tired of yelling at Ruffy for calling me a liar...lol...

 

[plumnuts]

these charts are BS because they do not factor in life style... fat people get diabetes and heart disease... smokers get cancers.. factor those into these calculations and then you have meaniful information

 

[ruffryder]

See....I wish I could remember how to do that whole high light, cut and paste thingy...thanks for doing that...I was getting tired of yelling at Ruffy for calling me a liar...lol...

not calling you a liar, you just stated somethings that I have seen analysis for the complete opposite... specifically the cure rates...

 

[ruffryder]

these charts are BS because they do not factor in life style... fat people get diabetes and heart disease... smokers get cancers.. factor those into these calculations and then you have meaniful information

?? I think your point is a good one that the charts make. We spend soo much on health care yet we aren't healthy. Healthy living is a part of the "health care" issue. Preventative measures are as well. Both of these things are severely lacking in our health care system.

The big question is why? The answer, is because there is no money in healthy people. It is very hard to make money off of healthy people (make money through the health care system).

 

[plumnuts]

?? I think your point is a good one that the charts make. We spend soo much on health care yet we aren't healthy. Healthy living is a part of the "health care" issue. Preventative measures are as well. Both of these things are severely lacking in our health care system.

The big question is why? The answer, is because there is no money in healthy people. It is very hard to make money off of healthy people (make money through the health care system).

you also got to remember.. we are Americans.. we make choices... some of us buy full coverage on our snowmobiles (for a higher cost) or we choose the bare bones coverage (i.e. pick a high deductible) and when we wrap our sled around a tree.. we pony up and then insurance covers the rest. Same with healthcare, if you want just major medical and pay for everything else... you should get to do that... or if you want to pay more per month (either in taxes or in insurance premiums) for the full meal deal (so you can get *** scoped every five years for "free").. that is your choice... but not mine.

 

[ruffryder]

you also got to remember.. we are Americans.. we make choices... some of us buy full coverage on our snowmobiles (for a higher cost) or we choose the bare bones coverage (i.e. pick a high deductible) and when we wrap our sled around a tree.. we pony up and then insurance covers the rest. Same with healthcare, if you want just major medical and pay for everything else... you should get to do that... or if you want to pay more per month (either in taxes or in insurance premiums) for the full meal deal (so you can get *** scoped every five years for "free").. that is your choice... but not mine.

agreed on all counts, I just wish there was a better system to put my money in.

 

[m7bandit]

for me it boils down to freedom of choice i don't want the gov to have any more control over me or my family, thru heath care they could have leverage over us by denying care to me or a loved one if a person does not comply with them. there track record is not so good at running social programs will it be different with health care? I like the freedoms thats left i suffered and others your ancestors died for. shame on those who have forgotten them that sacrificed themselves for you

 

[xrated]

?? I think your point is a good one that the charts make. We spend soo much on health care yet we aren't healthy. Healthy living is a part of the "health care" issue. Preventative measures are as well. Both of these things are severely lacking in our health care system.

The big question is why? The answer, is because there is no money in healthy people. It is very hard to make money off of healthy people (make money through the health care system).

true there is no money in healthy people. But there is savings in healthy people if you are the company paying for insurance.

My work place (which a few of you should be able to figure out) started a thing last year where they set up a point system for various healthy things you could do....if you reached 500 by a set time they knocked 10 bucks a month of your costs for 6 months, reach a 100 the next 6 months.

First thing is just taking a health assesment to see where you are at. then you could exercise, take classes, etc.

I'm sure it cost a bit for them at first, but all ready they are probably seeing savings.

 

[SkiDoobyDoo]

1) Real Americans pay their own way.

2) Obama's plan 'said' it had certain aspects it, in legislation, did not. (a politician lies?!)

3) Government control of healthcare is a dismal failure in large populations. Government by nature (any one) is incapable of being efficient or effective. With government in control the patient always suffers... always.

4) The systems are all broke or soon will be. Massachusetts (6.5 m people) has a form of government healthcare; it's horrible and they're beyond broke. In Norway (4.8 m people) patients reportedly wait months for service Americans now receive in hours or days. America's healthcare costs are about 6% of GDP whereas Norway's is about 45% of GDP.

5) American healthcare is second to none in the world.

6) Everyone in America gets treated, regardless of ability to pay.

7) Healthcare insurance actually covers your stuff & bank accounts, not your health. If you do not have insurance or ability to pay, then you may lose your stuff; cost of living. Yeah, life's a b!tch, grow up.

8) Private insurance is not that expensive. Of those without coverage, most have fancy cell phones, cable tv, plasma tvs... They choose other things over healthcare insurance.

9) Being able to choose is part of being American. It's a God given right (not government given).

 

[ruffryder]

I'm sure it cost a bit for them at first, but all ready they are probably seeing savings.

yah those programs are good. Companies are starting to create these programs all over the place. This is just one point in the wheel that is health care. I would like to see more programs like that with doctors, insurance companies... It is a start and a good one, but much more can be done.

 

[snowmobiler]

geeee.half your monthly take home aint expensive for healthcare.stop whining poor folks.

 

[Pinner]

Government control of health care is a dismal failure in large populations.

What large populations are you referring to ?

America's health care costs are about 6% of GDP whereas Norway's is about 45% of GDP.

Where did you find these numbers?

American health care is second to none in the world.

Not if you consider life expectancy or infant mortality rates.

Everyone in America gets treated, regardless of ability to pay.

Sure they do...

Private insurance is not that expensive.

Americans are paying nearly double for the current health care system compared to all the other countries with universal health care for it's population.