That would be cheating though
Panthera Build
- Thread starter wwillf01
- Start date
So it was a successful first ride. Plenty of power and for sure pulls harder and vibrates less than my done up 450. Before I get the full run down suspension has to be stiffened all the way around and clutch pull has to be addressed. Also I need to mess with the rod on the Lectron a bit for the low end. This set up is super nimble and can turn on a dime.. a few more rides it will be dialed. Fuel consumption was not bad... the yz250 we run burns more fuel. For Utah the 3 inch track is the only option in my opinion I has passing stuck sleds on the hill and just pulling insane lines... until the next ride update. Oh ya the front facing kick starter had to be removed because the snow melted popping it out... but nice to have in the pack...
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Very cool thanks. Re:clutch pull, the person answering my emails there said that they have a lot more spring in the clutch than necessary and that you can probably pull half of them out and not slip a bit. They just way overbuilt it.
Ya about that .. there will be, it was snowing like mad and was messing with it... It was uncontrollable wheelieing over in about 3 feet of powder up hills.. so for the sake of not looking silly on video... right now 7 gallons on the rear needs some spring adjustment along with the front just diving like no tomorrow... The clutch is really hard/impossibleto feather so we are changing the springs to something lighter from a Banshee taking into account the altitude HP loss, Magura , and Mountain West lever. I really feel next ride out will be much more dialed ... easy fixes at the end of the day just the pains of the one off... not to mention our avalanche danger is off the charts so I am restricted to one area riding where I live. The other 3 are to dangerous because of the terrain. So don’t get you hopes up for anything super steep and tech still spring our snow is rotten.
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Ride that thing today?
Out racing in the desert... next weekend will be snow .. hydro clutch and suspension will be right so I will have a good review ..
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I don't mean to hijack this post but I thought I should get some information out on my Panthera build. I feel like I have not done my duty of putting this out there since I get a lot of information from this forum. Due to a cell phone issue I do not have photos of the build.
I bought the motor and pipe over a year ago but it was stuck, ready to ship, at Panthera due to COVID restrictions. I got it early summer. I had it up and running before we had enough snow around Idaho Falls to ride. I'm not tracking hours but I have ran about 70 gallons of fuel through it so far and still seems to have the same power. I have a new piston waiting and yes it is billet. I'm not sure how he is selling them for $193.
I got the electric start only. The starter draws a lot of current so frequent starts can kill even a good sized battery. I ride with sleds mostly and it seems like we stop to find each other or get someone unstuck frequent enough to be a problem. I switched to a EarthX ETX18F battery and have not had an issue since. I carry a good sized jump pack too.
The frame is from a 2009 KTM 450 XCF so everything else is based around compatible parts. I already had an ARO 3 so it matched up well. The entire frame cradle had to be replaced. I have a tubing bender (JD Squared) and I bought a 1.125" die. The top connection had to be moved up about 3" and the original connection location removed. It was a lot of tweaking to get the cradle tubes to fit between the engine and pipe and located well enough for engine mounting tabs. 4130 chromoly was from Online Metals and had very high yield and ultimate for that batch. My TIG skills are pretty weak but I got through that okay. The engine comes with a 15mm swingarm bolt hole so that had to get reamed out to 17mm. I used 16mm stainless washers stacked up for making up the difference with the normal Timbersled kit. The engine's swingarm hole is much more narrow than a KTM so I had to take up space on both sides instead of machining spacers down.
The pipe is from Panthera. I had to clock it and add the support tabs and weld on the pipe sections after the cone section. The silencer they sent is incredibly load. I will likely do something different for the silencer for next year. The ceramic coating is from SLP.
The power is incredible. I feel like I need a bigger track. I would like it to be greared down more. I have an 18 tooth on the jack shaft and a 12 with an EK Chain 520 ZVX3 chain. 2nd gear is for tight side hills and 3rd is the climbing gear is the super deep. It will pull 4th in deep stuff depending on conditions. There is a big gap between 1st and 2nd and the rest are tight so I have gears to chose from with it geared down. The power curve reminds me of a KTM 200 so a more peaked torque curve than my KTM 300. A useable low end in some situations but the magic is mid to top.
I have a Pro Taper clutch perch and yes it is a heavy pull but loosened up with use. The feel is fine. The plates are Rekluse so 13 friction plates need the through out or it drags some. Panthera said I could run lighter springs but I'm fine. If you abuse a clutch like I do you'll want to keep track of free play at the lever and make sure you keep free play at the through rod. The through out bearing should have 0.030" free play and you need to shorten the push rod segment on occasion. I cooked a clutch and had to leave it in the back country not knowing this.
A TSS with 400 psi still squatted too much and trenched so I went to a strut and 200lb spring front and 220 lb in back. Big improvement. Forks are ultra stiff.
The fuel pump recommendation came from me. I was draining the float bowl. I switched the float valve and added the pump. I'm running a Lectron 44HV with a 8-3 rod. Carb heater and intake are PST. I have a carb jacket and I wrapped the head and cylinder in neoprene. The thermostat is 135F. I am also funning Timbersled's heated handlebars with Cyrca handguards with Moose foam guards over. Very warm set up.
The foot peg to shifter was too short and causing missed shifts. I put on a banshee shifter (stightly bent out) and the shifter is a little further than perfect for a size 12 Havoc boot but no more poor shifts. Shifting does need to be more deliberate than a KTM where you can just stab at it and it stays in.
Other stuff on the bike: KOSO EGT gauge, voltage gauge, KOSO temp gauge but the sensor keeps failing. Artic Cat tunnel cooler, Timbersled scratchers, M2 ratchet straps holding a 5 gallon tuff jug (8.3 gallons total bike capacity), and Motion Pro throttle assembly.
I bought the motor and pipe over a year ago but it was stuck, ready to ship, at Panthera due to COVID restrictions. I got it early summer. I had it up and running before we had enough snow around Idaho Falls to ride. I'm not tracking hours but I have ran about 70 gallons of fuel through it so far and still seems to have the same power. I have a new piston waiting and yes it is billet. I'm not sure how he is selling them for $193.
I got the electric start only. The starter draws a lot of current so frequent starts can kill even a good sized battery. I ride with sleds mostly and it seems like we stop to find each other or get someone unstuck frequent enough to be a problem. I switched to a EarthX ETX18F battery and have not had an issue since. I carry a good sized jump pack too.
The frame is from a 2009 KTM 450 XCF so everything else is based around compatible parts. I already had an ARO 3 so it matched up well. The entire frame cradle had to be replaced. I have a tubing bender (JD Squared) and I bought a 1.125" die. The top connection had to be moved up about 3" and the original connection location removed. It was a lot of tweaking to get the cradle tubes to fit between the engine and pipe and located well enough for engine mounting tabs. 4130 chromoly was from Online Metals and had very high yield and ultimate for that batch. My TIG skills are pretty weak but I got through that okay. The engine comes with a 15mm swingarm bolt hole so that had to get reamed out to 17mm. I used 16mm stainless washers stacked up for making up the difference with the normal Timbersled kit. The engine's swingarm hole is much more narrow than a KTM so I had to take up space on both sides instead of machining spacers down.
The pipe is from Panthera. I had to clock it and add the support tabs and weld on the pipe sections after the cone section. The silencer they sent is incredibly load. I will likely do something different for the silencer for next year. The ceramic coating is from SLP.
The power is incredible. I feel like I need a bigger track. I would like it to be greared down more. I have an 18 tooth on the jack shaft and a 12 with an EK Chain 520 ZVX3 chain. 2nd gear is for tight side hills and 3rd is the climbing gear is the super deep. It will pull 4th in deep stuff depending on conditions. There is a big gap between 1st and 2nd and the rest are tight so I have gears to chose from with it geared down. The power curve reminds me of a KTM 200 so a more peaked torque curve than my KTM 300. A useable low end in some situations but the magic is mid to top.
I have a Pro Taper clutch perch and yes it is a heavy pull but loosened up with use. The feel is fine. The plates are Rekluse so 13 friction plates need the through out or it drags some. Panthera said I could run lighter springs but I'm fine. If you abuse a clutch like I do you'll want to keep track of free play at the lever and make sure you keep free play at the through rod. The through out bearing should have 0.030" free play and you need to shorten the push rod segment on occasion. I cooked a clutch and had to leave it in the back country not knowing this.
A TSS with 400 psi still squatted too much and trenched so I went to a strut and 200lb spring front and 220 lb in back. Big improvement. Forks are ultra stiff.
The fuel pump recommendation came from me. I was draining the float bowl. I switched the float valve and added the pump. I'm running a Lectron 44HV with a 8-3 rod. Carb heater and intake are PST. I have a carb jacket and I wrapped the head and cylinder in neoprene. The thermostat is 135F. I am also funning Timbersled's heated handlebars with Cyrca handguards with Moose foam guards over. Very warm set up.
The foot peg to shifter was too short and causing missed shifts. I put on a banshee shifter (stightly bent out) and the shifter is a little further than perfect for a size 12 Havoc boot but no more poor shifts. Shifting does need to be more deliberate than a KTM where you can just stab at it and it stays in.
Other stuff on the bike: KOSO EGT gauge, voltage gauge, KOSO temp gauge but the sensor keeps failing. Artic Cat tunnel cooler, Timbersled scratchers, M2 ratchet straps holding a 5 gallon tuff jug (8.3 gallons total bike capacity), and Motion Pro throttle assembly.
How does it compare to any other bike you have ridden?
My last bike was an 2017 330 KTM (Eric Gorr) with a PC pipe, Slavens milled head, SX ignition, shorty silencer, carb heater with the ARO 3. It out climbed my buddies 2020 KTM SX on firm snow (his was a RIOT) and I out weigh him by 40 lbs. Same bike was on a ARO 120 the year before.
I lost a little nibbleness but not much. The power differnce is huge.
I lost a little nibbleness but not much. The power differnce is huge.
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I wonder if you cut your head tube welds and pulled it back a hair if it would improve that feel.
That could be a good idea. The ski is already pretty close to the pipe since the engine is longer therefore more forward. As-is the pipe can contact the pipe with full fork compression but the ski tipped down with full fork compression would be already a bad day. Still, not sure how much room I have.
Well if you increase trail while steepening the head angle, the ski might end up in the same spot actually. Well, it will come back more in travel with a steeper angle still. But maybe not that bad. I think that was a big change on the newer Ktm was much steeper steering angle.
So the fork springs seemed like they were for a 100 pound kid
I think on a normal kit you would not have got out of the parking lot... Magura clutch made a huge difference ... say I will ride again !Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Update and some crappy video from my 13 year old son: keep in mind our snow is so low it is like we are riding in May conditions
1. Magura clutch a must and should be sold with it .
It uses the torque drive clutch stock so it clamps hard
2. Went with half banshee springs but might go all banshee to try to get more progressive feel
3. I am starting to think I need a different rod from lectron. Top end is dialed. Missing mid range which gets better as I richer but then I loose idle.
4. Tunnel cooler works great
5. Changing the rear rod a bit and still messing with the suspension but getting closer
6. The 3 inch in spring snow for sure takes a lot of power
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1. Magura clutch a must and should be sold with it .
It uses the torque drive clutch stock so it clamps hard
2. Went with half banshee springs but might go all banshee to try to get more progressive feel
3. I am starting to think I need a different rod from lectron. Top end is dialed. Missing mid range which gets better as I richer but then I loose idle.
4. Tunnel cooler works great
5. Changing the rear rod a bit and still messing with the suspension but getting closer
6. The 3 inch in spring snow for sure takes a lot of power
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Sounds good but very loud
Are you running the Lectron 44HV? I'm still not perfectly happy with the 8-3 metering rod. I have the idle screw all the way in. I've tried an 8-1, 7-2, and 7-3. The 7-3 was okay but EGTs too high at half throttle. WOT is easy with a Lectron because of the power jet.Update and some crappy video from my 13 year old son: keep in mind our snow is so low it is like we are riding in May conditions
1. Magura clutch a must and should be sold with it .
It uses the torque drive clutch stock so it clamps hard
2. Went with half banshee springs but might go all banshee to try to get more progressive feel
3. I am starting to think I need a different rod from lectron. Top end is dialed. Missing mid range which gets better as I richer but then I loose idle.
4. Tunnel cooler works great
5. Changing the rear rod a bit and still messing with the suspension but getting closer
6. The 3 inch in spring snow for sure takes a lot of power
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Funny enough that is a procircuit long silencer but it is a 550 and growls ... it runs like a yz250 reving ... but for sure I have a hole in the middle... it was dynoed with Canadian 94 octane does anyone know if their rating is the same as the USA non ethanol?
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