Painted ourselves into a corner?

[Yeti]

The 1st of the Baby Boomers are starting to retire. They will be going on Social Security and Medicare and we as a nation simply can't pay for it. I have done the research, it's not possible without drastic benefit cuts that would leave our seniors in a world of hurt. We can't raise taxes enough (by any sane standard), we can't grow our economy enough to create the revenue needed, and I don't think even the United States can borrow that kind of money from foreign governments.

Even the governments own accountants are saying (and have been for years) that our current path is unsustainable. Credible sources estimate that by the year 2027 Medicare, Medicaid, SS, and interest on the national debt (so called mandatory spending) will consume the entire federal budget. All of it! No money for defense, roads & bridges, education, farmers, national parks, states, and everything else. Not even our country can borrow that much money. I'm not blowing smoke (I wish I was), I can provide sources, including the governments own estimates, if anyone is interested.

About all they can do is fire up the old printing press and start printing money. Which brings a whole new set of problems: hyperinflation and potentially even the collapse of the dollar. Something I can't even imagine, but a real possibility I'm afraid. I'm a layman at this, but folks a lot smarter than me are saying the same thing.

So what I would like is if someone on here could tell me a plausible way forward whereby we are not royally screwed! I am afraid that we have left it to late to fix and this recession is just making it that much worse. Whats coming will make this current crisis seem like a cake walk! If someone can explain how we have any real chance of avoiding this disaster, you will be the first I've met since I started askin questions.

 

[rynokron]

Plague

 

[Sledboymn]

12-21-2012

 

[xrated]

fug it. I'm moving to an island and kicking it that way, or hitting the bush and doing it old school. No other humans equals no germs equals no sicky.

But the islands sound much better, so long as there's rum.

 

[winter brew]

This is why our new leaders have proposed siezing the 401k's and retirement accounts of all Americans and using them to fund Social Security.

 

[Ollie]

The problem is this.
When SS was proposed it was a safety net.
The great depression wiped out most people savings. They were left with nothing. Literally. They worked their whole lives and had zip.

The government proposed SS as a safety net. A way to ensure that retirees had the basics they needed to survive. It was a set aside. A pot of money like a savings account that would grow interest and provide a large stash of cash.

The problem was, the US government (A Dem pushed it thru) discovered this HUGE stash of cash. THey moved it from a set aside and moved it into the general fund. This gave the politicians access to the money. Over half of the national debt is money OWED to OURSELVES. They are supposed to keep track of how much they stole and how much interest has been lost so all that money can be put back. Yea, we see how that worked out.

Another problem, SS has become kind of like a prize. When you get "X" old, you win the jackpot. Regardless if you need the money or not. Another problem, immigrants, both legal and illigal are instantly elligible for SS the moment they get here. So we have seen a HUGE upswing in immigrants bringing their parents and grand parents in (it's called chain migration) and they then get SS even though they never paid a dime into it. It's like a GIANT candy jar and everyone wants a piece.

The solution, there has to be a limit. At what dollar amount will you no longer get SS?
Further, they have to seal the candy jar. If you haven't paid in the pre-requisit quarters of work into SS, you don't get it ever, for any reason. No pay, no play.
Did you know that 20/20 did an exposae about how mexicans were coming across, getting a PO box then applying for and GETTING SS? Even though they never paid into it and arn't even supposed to get it? Cool huh.

SS is a pyrimid scheme. This is one of the reasons the politicians want to grant amnesty to illigals. They want to shore up the base money coming in as a way to offset their own greed and incompetence.

The politicians unfortunetly, don't have the backbone to do anything other than pour money into the system.
WHY?
Old people vote. A lot and in great numbers and everyone knows, politicians love power and will do anything to get and keep it.
This is a problem that is almost to the breaking point. Lets see if the new pres. has any backbone.

Oh, a side note.
Did you know if you started on SS right now you would get every dime you ever paid in plus interest back in SS payments withing 2 years?
Also, did you know that if you are 20 and paying into the system, by the time you retire you will NEVER recover the money you paid in? If you put that same amount into a savings account it would generate more cash than going thru SS.

 

[xrated]

good post ollie.

As a 25 year old who has been getting hosed on SS taxes, I knew it and know I will never see any of it.

Sure wish a guy could opt out of SS like preachers can.

 

[MPS]

Good posts Yeti and Ollie! I am truly scared too Ollie....people can keep hiding their heads in the sand, but we are in big trouble in SO many ways. Ollie I hear you about the illegals collecting SS....I see it all the time! ALL THE TIME! Every notice your paystub regarding how much you pay into social security disability? LMFAO! It is absurd and so many lazy f*ck criminals are mooching off that SSDI because they are f*cking bi-polar, depressed, or claim some mental deficiency that they can't work.

 

[Yeti]

Good post Ollie!

The problem is that I can't see the politicians having the backbone to impose the hard choices it will take. In Pete Peterson's book Running on Empty he talks about his involement in the 1994 Kerry-Danforth Commission to find reforms. Their report, endorsed by 31 of the 32 members, stated that if we did not reform tax & spending policies, the benefit outlays for just 5 programs- SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and federal civilian and military pensions- would EXCEED TOTAL FEDERAL REVENUES by the year 2030. Right after they released the report they got 350,000 preformatted postcards from seniors expressing outrage! This is before they had discussed a single reform! Consequentely, the politicians tucked their tails between their legs and walked away. The commission expired without doing anything to fix the problem.

That illustrates what we are up against. Since then they have just made things worse. Take the 2003 Medicare part D drug benefit. Great, lets pile on to a program that is already going broke! Ethel down the block sure is a nice lady, but why do you and I have to buy her drugs? SS is bad enough but Medicare is in way worse shape. SS is indexed to wages, so even if wages and the economy grow, benefits grow right along with it. Healthcare costs (medicare/medicaid)grow faster than the economy medicare is already taking in less money than must pay out in benefits.

The politicians won't do anything until they absoulutely have to, and by then it will be too late, if it isn't already. It makes my head hurt!

 

[Ollie]

This is part of Obama's health care program (as I understand it and I could very easily be wrong).
If we had universal health care, we could drop Medicaid and Medicare from being counted against SS and the national debt (cute way to lower the national debt). There would be no need for Medicaid and Medicare because everyone would already be covered.

The problem with that is he is expecting buisnesses and the rich to pick up the entire tab.

 

[snobunny21]

Good post guys

 

[Yeti]

I don't know how you would make universal health care work. Transffering the costs to the government doesn't make them go away. They either have to tax the crap out of people (those that have jobs that is), borrow & go deeper in debt, or lower the amounts that they will reimburse health care providers. Under that option I don't see how you can keep from collapsing the health care system. You stifle technology, research, and innovation, because where is the incentive? Hospitals and providers won't be able to pay the same wages if they are not getting reimbursed enough for tests and services. So then instead of the best and brightest working on you, you get Cletus who just finished a 3 weeks online correspondence course in nursing and, oh yeah, your heart surgeon...he is one of the best to come out of Guatemala in quite some time!!!!

 

[Ollie]

Sweden has universal health care.
Their TOTAL tax rate is 56%.

THe US doesn't have universal health care.
Our total tax rate is 42%.

One way they could cut the cost of medical treatment is to limit the amount a person can sue for. Or make it so if the person loses they have to pay all the costs associated with losing.

25-30% of the medical costs are for insurance and legal costs.
People have forgotten, doctors have a license to PRACTICE medician. Not be God.
Something else that would have to be done RIGHT NOW.
Bar anyone not legally in this country from getting free medical care. There are hospitals along the mexican boarder that are going broke. They treat so many illigals that can't pay that they can't afford to keep their doors open. Your tax dollars are bribing them to stay open and continue to operate.

 

[xrated]

One way they could cut the cost of medical treatment is to limit the amount a person can sue for. Or make it so if the person loses they have to pay all the costs associated with losing.-end of conversation, he nailed it.

Plus we can't be losing income in the medical field. I have kids to raise and toys that require upkeep and gas.

Did I mention a well stocked liquor cabinet that needs refilling from time to time?

 

[swampwater]

"Oh, a side note.
Did you know if you started on SS right now you would get every dime you ever paid in plus interest back in SS payments withing 2 years?
Also, did you know that if you are 20 and paying into the system, by the time you retire you will NEVER recover the money you paid in? If you put that same amount into a savings account it would generate more cash than going thru SS. "

As another side note can you imagine how much money a retiree would have if that money was not taken from him and he had put it in interest bearing devices for 45 years, I would imagine it would be over a million dollars and you could leave it to your kids. I don't think retirees are getting any sweet deal.
I just got my first check last week so keep feeding the monster.I need it.

When I went to my appointment at the ss office I noted that less than half the people there for appointments were of retirement age and about 10% did not even speek english, it's not retirees that have drained the system it is the government and the feeders at the trough who haven't paid in.
I had an aquaintance in the past that loved to drink and could not keep a job, one company put him through rehab twice before they gave up on him. At the ripe old age of about 35 his family got him disability from SS for being an alcoholic, 1,200 a month for nothing. He has been on it for about fifteen years and he still works jobs for money besides. I bet he clears more than many of you and the disability money is non taxable. Maybe that is why he can afford a $75,000 dollar boat. Swampy

 

[Yeti]

So about 45 minutes ago, I'm channel surfing and I come across Republican senate minority leader Mitch McConnell on C-Span. Coincidentally, he is talking about entitelments and the mess we are in. I quote him " in order to meet our entitlement obligations, we would have to extract $495,000 from every American household"!

I'm not making this up. This is where we are at today 1/23/09. I don't have that kind of money to give to the gov., do you? It can't be done folks. We're pretty much ****ed it looks like to me!

How is it that this issue escapes common knowledge and the mainstream media? Why is no one talking about it? I would submit that it is the most pressing issure facing us today, and we are nowhere near dealing with it....

 

[2XM3]

Great post, we are pretty much screwed............thank you Mr.goverment for stealing our money.

 

[SnowAddiction2]

There have been a few proposals that could help Social Security.


1. Raise the age when you are able to get SS---less money needed because you die shortly after you qualify.

2. Means Testing----the higher your Net worth, the less SS you get.

3. Raise Taxes-----I think this one is a given

4. Reduce the benefit amount-----Social Security is already warning of this.

All of the above solutions SUCK, but SS will not die.

 

[winter brew]

Here's your answer....http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/dems-target-private-retirement-accounts.html