Ok to use Synthetic Gear Oil in the Diamond Dirve

[Frostbite]

In my standard snowmobile chain cases I have ran synthetic gear oil for years because it's thinner and requires less engine power to turn than heavy standard gear oil.

I have to wonder if synthetic gear oil a practical alternative to Diamond Drive oil in our beloved M series sleds?

Or pehaps diamond drive specific oil is already synthetic?

 

[Jeff K]

I would bet that a good ATF would be just fine. Look at an automatic transmission with a planetary gear assembly like the Dodge 48RE that guys are pushing 1000+HP through running on ATF+4. Just a guess, but I am sure it would work just fine.

 

[lynxer292b]

I don't know if the Diamond Drive will like the synthetic oil or not they do seem to be rather touchy.

On a side note the guys running High Performance race cars do NOT run synthetic oil in their rear ends because the synthetic oil retains heat. The oil is taking all of the heat and running thinner and hotter. If you check the exterior temp of the diff case on a rear end running synthetic it will be much cooler than the one with conventional oil. The one with conventional oil will have a warmer case or housing. This sounds backwords right?

Well here is the deal the conventional oil disipates the heat outward. The oil is there to cool the gears if the oil is getting hot it isn't doing its job. If the oil is disipating the heat out it is doing its job. Yes the synthetic is running faster and with less resistance, but it won't last as long. DD already have short life spans it seems so maybe the .2 hp loss by running conventional oil is worth it. I am not good at explaining, but hopefully you get what I am saying. I also understand this post is subject to discussion and debate.

I changed the diff oil in my jeep a couple of weeks ago and this is what I learned. Someone else has learned it too because if you look at the full synthetic gear oil for diffs at the parts stores it says "only use this oil as an additave do not run 100% synthetic in your differential" or something to that effect.

maybe the DD is running synthetic and maybe that is part of their problems? I dont know. I will find out when I go to the cat dealer to change my gear oil for the first time this weekend...

 

[Toad Mountain]

i find that hard to believe. The less friction that you have in your diff or diamond drive produces less heat. All i run in everything that i own is 100% synthetic Amsoil. It has a longer service life, produces less friction, and hence frees up more horsepower than any conventional oil out there.

 

[sledtahoe]

heat

I do not see much heat at the dd anyway with snow constantly cooling it I've checked it may times....

 

[Frostbite]

Freeing up untapped horsepower is what it's all about, right?

Yet, if it's going to cause premature equipment failure, then it's not worth the trouble.

I guess that's the question:

Is running premium thinner lubricants hard on Diamond Drive assemblies? Or do they function normally and last just as long with synthetic oil as they do with diamond drive specific oil?

 

[KSH]

I have 500 plus miles on synthetic ATF, no problems so far.

 

[sunbather1969]

perfect example of someone that know dick

its 10 wt hyd oil or syn 10 wt do the math ......don't confuse people if you don't know the math dumb azz......sorry do the math before you speak smell the sh!t

 

[sunbather1969]

your not a engineer neither is your dealer now maybe your hot chick yea baby

I don't know if the Diamond Drive will like the synthetic oil or not they do seem to be rather touchy.

On a side note the guys running High Performance race cars do NOT run synthetic oil in their rear ends because the synthetic oil retains heat. The oil is taking all of the heat and running thinner and hotter. If you check the exterior temp of the diff case on a rear end running synthetic it will be much cooler than the one with conventional oil. The one with conventional oil will have a warmer case or housing. This sounds backwords right?

Well here is the deal the conventional oil disipates the heat outward. The oil is there to cool the gears if the oil is getting hot it isn't doing its job. If the oil is disipating the heat out it is doing its job. Yes the synthetic is running faster and with less resistance, but it won't last as long. DD already have short life spans it seems so maybe the .2 hp loss by running conventional oil is worth it. I am not good at explaining, but hopefully you get what I am saying. I also understand this post is subject to discussion and debate.

I changed the diff oil in my jeep a couple of weeks ago and this is what I learned. Someone else has learned it too because if you look at the full synthetic gear oil for diffs at the parts stores it says "only use this oil as an additave do not run 100% synthetic in your differential" or something to that effect.

maybe the DD is running synthetic and maybe that is part of their problems? I dont know. I will find out when I go to the cat dealer to change my gear oil for the first time this weekend...

quit thinking, you take your machine to the dealer for advise.. aw shoot its a good thing we have 50" in washington

 

[ripsass]

I've been thinking ATF too.

 

[sunbather1969]

go to your nearest fuel supplier and ask them for msds or info on fluids all auto manufacturers use 5 wt,30 wt., hyd fluid,trans fluid and 90 wt all with same components in dd...since early 80's..

 

[diggerdown]

go to your nearest fuel supplier and ask them for msds or info on fluids all auto manufacturers use 5 wt,30 wt., hyd fluid,trans fluid and 90 wt all with same components in dd...since early 80's..

Put 90wt in and you will be buying new parts for your drive unit! The faster something spins the faster the rate of exchange of lube to the part is needed. 90 wt will rub off and new oil does not replace it fast enough. The newer syn. ATF fluids lube vary good but they are not a hypoid oil, so they do lack in the shock load factor. Syn. hydraulic oil in a 10 wt may be a little better than ATF at absorbing shock, but it does tend to hold heat. Either should work fine, but probably not quite as good as cats oil since it was formulated to take both the high rev and shock load factors.

 

[donaldej]

If you do a search, in one of the 50 threads about this subject someone had the oil analyzed and the cat oil should be the same as non foaming 10wt hydraulic oil you can get at napa.

 

[akmc800]

I thought cat dd oil is sythetic? Oil I've been puttin in my DD is sythetic cat "ACT sythetic drive lube" ???

 

[KSH]

go to your nearest fuel supplier and ask them for msds or info on fluids all auto manufacturers use 5 wt,30 wt., hyd fluid,trans fluid and 90 wt all with same components in dd...since early 80's..

Put 90wt in and you will be buying new parts for your drive unit! The faster something spins the faster the rate of exchange of lube to the part is needed. 90 wt will rub off and new oil does not replace it fast enough. The newer syn. ATF fluids lube vary good but they are not a hypoid oil, so they do lack in the shock load factor. Syn. hydraulic oil in a 10 wt may be a little better than ATF at absorbing shock, but it does tend to hold heat. Either should work fine, but probably not quite as good as cats oil since it was formulated to take both the high rev and shock load factors.

I hope he said the ingredients are the same, not to use 90.

As far as shock load, I seen atf used instead hyd. oil or gear lube in lots of low temp. gear boxs.

 

[harf69]

after running syn for about 15years this is what ive dicovered i believe it is simply to slick to run in a rear diff its getting slung out before it has a chance to do its job it was my understanding that the cat oil was 10wt hydraulic anti foaming but im not sure enough to find out in the middle of nowhere my advise would be to call cat and ask them or just run the cat oila and not worry about it.The stock cat oil is a syn oil i just looked on the bottle

 

[lugnutz]

are you guys sure its a hydraulic oil, kind of know my way around hydraulics and can tell you this much, hydraulic oil is designed with one purpose in mind and that is to pressure up and flow consistantly without compression and decompression ( I.E springyness) regardless of temp to the best of its ability.
Thats its job, not to lubricate, in fact it is one of the poorest lubricating oils out there. the lower the weight the worse this gets

can believe a light weight gear oil but to think it is hydraulic blows my mind
ATF on the other hand is esentially a Hydraulic oil with a lubricating abililty, this makes a little more sense.

Long and short if you don't know exactly what the stock stuff is, don't quess. stick with it, there are different types of oil for a reason

 

[Bacon]

Why do you need to know what else to run. Just run the Cat lube for the DD. I'm all for saving a few bucks, but in this case the Cat lube is probably worth the piece of mind for the little extra money spent.

 

[Frostbite]

What drove this question was, I hadn't seen the bottle to know if the Cat oil was synthetic or if there was something better out there than the Cat oil.

If the Cat DD oil is synthetic then the choice is pretty clear to me. I'll just use the Cat stuff specifically formulated for this application.

I assume they probably buy it from BDX and relabel it anyway?

 

[backcountryislife]

Why do you need to know what else to run. Just run the Cat lube for the DD. I'm all for saving a few bucks, but in this case the Cat lube is probably worth the piece of mind for the little extra money spent.

I think another factor that comes up for a lot of us (especially with cat dealers dropping like flies) is availability. I know for me, if I happened to notice some shavings or something that made me change the oil without a bunch of notice, I'd be hard pressed to get DD oil without a few day wait.

I also feel that if the oil wasn't so expensive, we'd be more likely to change it more often.