Obama is dirt, this is good. Lets keep it going.
Obama's birth cert. issue not going away
- Thread starter Ollie
- Start date
You know, reading all these "lawyers" pages, I've kinda came to the conclusion that most most of the lawyers filing lawsuits against Obama, aren't very smart. And, don't seem to know what their doing.
They file in the wrong courts, file the wrong paperwork, get in fights with other lawyers trying to do the same thing. file the papers late, develop these cult followings, get in screaming matches with their clients, call the judge's names, ect. It really looks like amateur hour out there.
I'd like to see one good constitutional lawyer, with a client that has some reasonable standing, file a suit.
It's been said that some congressmen, are formally asking for Obama's birth certificate. Maybe they have a chance at claiming standing. And, forcing the truth.
The Terrik lady, who is a flaming Clinton supporter and anti-war, did manage to make Hawaii admit that Obama had changed his birth certificate date, then she disappeared. Her blog got deleted. Hummmm.
The other guy got Hawaii to admit that they actually have a BC for Obama on file. But, I thought that had been done a long time ago.
Anyway. So far, I've only been impressed with one lawyer. And, he isn't filing a suit yet.
What's wrong with Mario Apuzzo's suit?
Oh, Apuzzo makes a lot of good points, like 300 good points, and he keeps adding points. The question of how Obama can be a NBC when he was born a British subject, is a very good legal question to ask. But, asking in NJ, gets you nothing. The judge could find Obama a communist plant, and there's nothing he could do about it.
The question of eligibility of the Presidency, is given to only one leg of government, the House and Senate, the legislative branch. The judiciary has no power. There are certain powers given to certain branches of government. The Legislative handles the president.
EXCEPT, when filing the lawsuit properly, in the DC courts. Now, the reason the DC judiciary has power, is because Congress gave it to them. It's kinds like they didn't want to do it, so they delegated it to this one court. That's where you have to go, or else your wasting time.
Mostly, I was talking about Orly and Phil. Orly is showboating.
Did you notice Terrik disappeared?
Orly has disappointed me as well. I believe she is very sincere and she has a dogged determination and tenacity, but she seems to discredit herself as someone to be taken seriously by her statements and actions. She is a brilliant and accomplished and highly intelligent woman, so I try to look past some of the quirky things and hope that there are merits to her arguments, but I don't follow her process much anymore.
Phil was the first one I started hearing about this issue from before BO even was sworn in, but later found out that he blamed Bush for 9/11 or some crazy theory and dropped him like a hot potato. (Plus what you referenced about all the fighting with Orly and the dust up with the lady who worked for him sabotaging Orly.)
Mario is very methodical and has a long term plan. He just said something the other day about some subject that led me to believe the new argument was not in his filings, so I asked him if he was going to get someone to do an amicus brief to include it, and I also said maybe it was blessing that BO was stalling so much because it allowed "us" to find more information, like the recent discoveries by several citizens of founders' documents relevant to the NBC argument. This was his response:
Email 1: "More is being discovered every day. Also, the meaning of a "natural born Citizen" was not before the federal court in Kerchner. The only substantive issues were standing, immunity, and political question."
Email 2 (after I asked another question): The definition of "natural born Citizen" was not decided by the court. It has yet to be addressed. There is no need for any amicus brief to address it. It cannot be addressed on appeal because it is not part of what the lower court decided. At the right moment, the issue will be addressed. Mario"
He had also mentioned previously that he hoped another lawyer would bring certain subjects up in separate suits, so my impression was that his strategy is pointing out all the issues other attorneys could bring up so all the bases are covered. He'd mentioned at one point about Donofrio helping him out too. (From his blog: "You can imagine how busy I will be working on the appeal. It would be nice if Leo can help us out on this by filing the Hawaii action. That way we can cover more ground.") So I'm wondering if his 300 good points may be just ideas to help with other plaintiffs and attorneys for other newer suits? (Unless you were referring to stuff in the actual filings.)
You have a better grasp about all this legal maze than I do and that all probably makes more sense to you than it does to me.
As for TerriK, she had a new blog, but the link now says the authors have deleted it. Hmmmm. But a poster on Denofrio's blog said this on Thursday night (11/5/09): "Larry Says: Dear Leo, Not to bother you with unnecessary replies, but in case you are not aware, TerriK today posted a DoH denial of access to a request related to an amended birth date for BO."
So it was deleted in the last day or two? "By the author" sounds like she deleted it? Bummer.
Phil was the first one I started hearing about this issue from before BO even was sworn in, but later found out that he blamed Bush for 9/11 or some crazy theory and dropped him like a hot potato. (Plus what you referenced about all the fighting with Orly and the dust up with the lady who worked for him sabotaging Orly.)
Mario is very methodical and has a long term plan. He just said something the other day about some subject that led me to believe the new argument was not in his filings, so I asked him if he was going to get someone to do an amicus brief to include it, and I also said maybe it was blessing that BO was stalling so much because it allowed "us" to find more information, like the recent discoveries by several citizens of founders' documents relevant to the NBC argument. This was his response:
Email 1: "More is being discovered every day. Also, the meaning of a "natural born Citizen" was not before the federal court in Kerchner. The only substantive issues were standing, immunity, and political question."
Email 2 (after I asked another question): The definition of "natural born Citizen" was not decided by the court. It has yet to be addressed. There is no need for any amicus brief to address it. It cannot be addressed on appeal because it is not part of what the lower court decided. At the right moment, the issue will be addressed. Mario"
He had also mentioned previously that he hoped another lawyer would bring certain subjects up in separate suits, so my impression was that his strategy is pointing out all the issues other attorneys could bring up so all the bases are covered. He'd mentioned at one point about Donofrio helping him out too. (From his blog: "You can imagine how busy I will be working on the appeal. It would be nice if Leo can help us out on this by filing the Hawaii action. That way we can cover more ground.") So I'm wondering if his 300 good points may be just ideas to help with other plaintiffs and attorneys for other newer suits? (Unless you were referring to stuff in the actual filings.)
You have a better grasp about all this legal maze than I do and that all probably makes more sense to you than it does to me.
As for TerriK, she had a new blog, but the link now says the authors have deleted it. Hmmmm. But a poster on Denofrio's blog said this on Thursday night (11/5/09): "Larry Says: Dear Leo, Not to bother you with unnecessary replies, but in case you are not aware, TerriK today posted a DoH denial of access to a request related to an amended birth date for BO."
So it was deleted in the last day or two? "By the author" sounds like she deleted it? Bummer.
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Ollie
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Ya know, I just had an evil thought.
Image this.
What if all the court action to this point was just a faint?
What I mean by that is this.
What if this Mario knew there would be a big push to toss out any case brought forward.
So by filing the way he does he knew the cases would be tossed for one reason or another.
However, in being tossed another section of the court system was illiminated.
Thereby narrowing the scope and scale of the court system to be navigated.
Once you have gone thru all the lower courts and the out lying layers of bs you are left with a clear path that the courts and politicians have set before you.
The courts can no longer deneigh the case and bo can't push the case to some other court that will toss it since it has already been thru that avenue.
So now you have a direct path thru the court system as laid out by the court system.
The courts have laid the precidence needed to define and impliment a constitutional challenge to bo's eligibility.
Once that is done you bring out all the information and evidence you have been holding as you forced the courts to lay the path out for you. Bo and company haven't had months to prepare their defence because you haven't presented it yet.
Any of that make sence?
Image this.
What if all the court action to this point was just a faint?
What I mean by that is this.
What if this Mario knew there would be a big push to toss out any case brought forward.
So by filing the way he does he knew the cases would be tossed for one reason or another.
However, in being tossed another section of the court system was illiminated.
Thereby narrowing the scope and scale of the court system to be navigated.
Once you have gone thru all the lower courts and the out lying layers of bs you are left with a clear path that the courts and politicians have set before you.
The courts can no longer deneigh the case and bo can't push the case to some other court that will toss it since it has already been thru that avenue.
So now you have a direct path thru the court system as laid out by the court system.
The courts have laid the precidence needed to define and impliment a constitutional challenge to bo's eligibility.
Once that is done you bring out all the information and evidence you have been holding as you forced the courts to lay the path out for you. Bo and company haven't had months to prepare their defence because you haven't presented it yet.
Any of that make sence?
Sure that makes sense. I guess one thing to keep in mind. No one's ever done this before. I don't think lawyers are used to traveling, untraveled roads. They quote precedence. There is none here.
Orly, Phil, and Mario, are all doing the same thing. They are approaching the judicial, and making the argument, since BO isn't constitutionally eligible, he can't be POTUS, so we don't have to approach this case, in the way a President would be impeached.
Now truthfully, the DC Courts are the way to get rid of BO. But, it might have been possible to find a court that would allow discovery. Thereby getting access to BO documents. Something tells me, if those documents get out, he won't stand a chance. Donofrio might get Obama's BC through the Hawaii courts yet.
The reason they have all these roadblocks, to attacking a President, is because someone hates every president ever elected. So, they make it hard on purpose. But, it is possible.
Yep, read Terrik's blog about Hawaii admitting BO had filed a request to change his birth date. They knew he changed something, from an earlier admission, now his Birthday may be that thing. Funny how she disappeared, the next day. Hummmm.
Orly, Phil, and Mario, are all doing the same thing. They are approaching the judicial, and making the argument, since BO isn't constitutionally eligible, he can't be POTUS, so we don't have to approach this case, in the way a President would be impeached.
Now truthfully, the DC Courts are the way to get rid of BO. But, it might have been possible to find a court that would allow discovery. Thereby getting access to BO documents. Something tells me, if those documents get out, he won't stand a chance. Donofrio might get Obama's BC through the Hawaii courts yet.
The reason they have all these roadblocks, to attacking a President, is because someone hates every president ever elected. So, they make it hard on purpose. But, it is possible.
Yep, read Terrik's blog about Hawaii admitting BO had filed a request to change his birth date. They knew he changed something, from an earlier admission, now his Birthday may be that thing. Funny how she disappeared, the next day. Hummmm.
I think you're right Ollie. Like I posted back on Oct 22, Mario expected this. He had said this rejection would mean a faster track to SCOTUS. Next is the 3rd circuit court of appeals, which he's already filed now.
Then based on his comment to me about "at the right moment the issue will be addressed" makes it sounds like he has a plan. He'd also mentioned that with the positive that with more stalling comes more time to discover more relevant data, the reverse is also true for the defendant.
Then based on his comment to me about "at the right moment the issue will be addressed" makes it sounds like he has a plan. He'd also mentioned that with the positive that with more stalling comes more time to discover more relevant data, the reverse is also true for the defendant.
What types of courts are in DC since it's not a state? Do they treat it like a state for the court system? I mean Holder's in DC, but that's a joke. Are there courts for the District of Columbia that are separate from SCOTUS and DOJ?
Yes there are people who hate every president, but you'd think the fact that he won't reveal his records would make SOME judges curious and the fact that the ramifications, if we're right, are so far reaching and overwhelming. I mean spending over a million bucks to HIDE vital records??? And if you're NOT eligible, the consequences of willfully hiding that????
I have little memory for past presidents' issues besides Nixon and Clinton/Lewinsky - were there any in the past where there were opponents trying to depose a president where the claims were this serious?
Statute 16-3503 created by Congress, for this very exact situation.
A public person, filing a complaint with Justice, that then must be
ruled on. It is specific to elected (in office) federal servants. I can
pull up the entire statute if you want.
A public person, filing a complaint with Justice, that then must be
ruled on. It is specific to elected (in office) federal servants. I can
pull up the entire statute if you want.
Absolutely, not a bad plan. Make the courts tell you where to go. They might have gotten lucky, forced some documents to be released, to really file a great complaint in the DC courts. They might have also gotten somewhere with a former leader, like Cheney, to make him tell what happened. There had to be a back room deal made, or the Republican Party is stupid.
There may still be some Grand Jury, that could get some stuff done.
I'm just saying, anything they do against BO was doomed to fail. Other people though, that could work.
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Ollie
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Republicans didn't stand a chance of making ANY headway on the issue of eligibility.
The media would crusify them and the dems wouldn't allow any action to be taken.
They they were dead in the water before they even started.
Best to let the private sector try and handle it and if anything real pops up, use it to beat the dems into submission.
The media would crusify them and the dems wouldn't allow any action to be taken.
They they were dead in the water before they even started.
Best to let the private sector try and handle it and if anything real pops up, use it to beat the dems into submission.
EXACTLY ^^^^
this is what i thought all along, until the private sector gets the discovery done and it comes out then you will see everything escalate, until then they won't touch it
this is what i thought all along, until the private sector gets the discovery done and it comes out then you will see everything escalate, until then they won't touch it
I don't know. I think Cheney could have simply followed protocol, and vetted him. Sure, there are questions that have never been asked. But, he could have simply asked the Supreme Court to rule. Hillary would have fallen in line, and the Dems would have been spill as a party. I don't know, I smell a deal. Of course, I don't think Cheney gets involved until after the primaries, so maybe it was too late by then.
But, once BO was the official Dem candidate, it would have been too late, that I agree. One set of rules for the white guys, another for the others.
Reason I say that, is they where all over McCain, before he even ran.
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Ollie
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I think McCain was too scared of making the media mad.
Too bad he didn't and still doesn't have a backbone.
You are correct, he could have demanded and probably gotten the evidence we still seek today or at least derailed bo's rise to power.
Too bad we don't have any polititicians with morals and a sence of duty.
Too bad he didn't and still doesn't have a backbone.
You are correct, he could have demanded and probably gotten the evidence we still seek today or at least derailed bo's rise to power.
Too bad we don't have any polititicians with morals and a sence of duty.
Nah, don't pull it up, I won't understand it anyway.
Is "Justice" DOJ?
So is the paraphrase of that that someone could file a case in a district court in DC w/o going through DOJ or DC's US atty - but does that person have to live in DC to file that? Or just the defendant have to live there? I wonder why they haven't done that yet.
Nah, don't pull it up, I won't understand it anyway.
Is "Justice" DOJ?
So is the paraphrase of that that someone could file a case in a district court in DC w/o going through DOJ or DC's US atty? Does that person have to live in DC to file that? Or can just the defendant have to live there? I wonder why they haven't done that yet.
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