Now In Development. Polaris 1150cc Twin, Outlaw 1300cc, & Outlaw 1700cc Triple
- Thread starter indydan
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sledstew
Well-known member
Quote:
Trust me Ben, The 1300cc Outlaw in stock form will be a handful for any W/C based 1500cc.
The cylinders are simply to narrow to get the needed wrap in the transfers for big power.
A maxed out W/C 1500cc @ 8500 rpm would be a good match for a Bone stock unported Outlaw 1300cc.
Prove it! I agree with some of your statement but definitely not all of it.
Trust me Ben, The 1300cc Outlaw in stock form will be a handful for any W/C based 1500cc.
The cylinders are simply to narrow to get the needed wrap in the transfers for big power.
A maxed out W/C 1500cc @ 8500 rpm would be a good match for a Bone stock unported Outlaw 1300cc.
Prove it! I agree with some of your statement but definitely not all of it.
T
trickedxcr
Well-known member
not doughting your motor building skills nor being ignorant so don't take this the wrong way.with that being said my friend scott carlson has built 2 of the 900 fusion motors.one stock bore and the other 975cc.The 975cc motor was hand ported by rob from HTG himself and pipes were custom crankshop twins custom cut and fitted by joe salem himself.the most power he ever made from the maxed out 975cc was 183hp at 7900rpms WITH TWIN PIPES.his stock bore made 170.9hp with full SLP package.the 975 transfers were noticably larger and wider than the ported SLP also.this tells me that the 1300cc would roughly make around 270hp-275hp full tilt at around 7900-8000rpms.No matter what he did with pipe configuration he could only get power at 7900 and any higher or lower the peak power and torque fell off extremely fast.The 80mm stroke polaris used on that motor was not intended to run 9000+ rpms.it was a high torque low rev motor and that is what it did.I don't see how that 80mm stroke with 84mm piston (almost square bore) would even be possible to run 9000+ rpms.Also there is alot of 1200cc watercraft motors out there running from 240-260+hp.a good built 1500cc watercraft with crankshop cylinders will be anywere from 315-335hp at 8500-8600rpms that is using the 76mm stroke.HTG can make 300HP out of there full mod 1200cc xcr based triple and the reason is bore to stroke.they use a 73mm stroke and 84.25mm bore.this allows them to make power in the 9000-9200rpm max with alot smaller stroke.not saying that smaller strokes make more power but just using these sleds as base line motor bore to stroke combos.As stroke increases motors have a tendency to make power at lower rpms.Let us no how things pan out and what rpms you achived and hp numbers.Good luck with your project.
SledStew & Trickedxcr
Good points & questions.
SledStew, Your exactly right.........That is exactly why I am going to run these motors for 2 years before I believe any of it.
Trickedxcr - Your example is exactly why I am doing this & you are 100% correct. - First, I have had a few of Robs 975 in the shop and 183 hp is awesome to me. I looked the porting over and it was all pretty basic. The 05 cylinder is pretty good stock and the 06 is better yet.
Stock 900 -( 860cc ) - 155/2 = 77.5hp per hole, 77.5 X 3 ( 1290cc ) = 232.5 hp with stock cylinders.
Now Robs 975cc 183hp /2 = 91.5hp per hole, 91.5 X 3 ( 1462cc ) = 274.5 hp @ 7800 rpm *( Now make Rev it up where a triple is happy ) 8500 rpm+ and you got 300hp + by accident. ) in trail form.
So from a 1290cc to a 1462cc - ( 175cc ) increase in displacement. the motor gained 42hp.... thats 14hp per cylinder for the bore increase of 57.5cc per hole. ( Thats awesome to me ) I'm Not expecting anymore then that.
So a 1462cc with mild porting would be 275hp in trial form out of OEM cylinders you can buy on ebay for $100 to $225 each.
( then you add the normal gain ) that happens when you go to 3 cylinders and you increase enigine speed and the 1462cc will be over 300hp
A W/C 1500cc needs Custom Cast cylinders to the tune of $1500 to $2000 each when finished.... depending on who ports them. Then the case work is staggering.
I am not doing this to sell motors, Its a sell centered thing for me and a few of my buddies and a few customers that are dieing to try them.
I have told them they will be very low cost and dollar for dollar almost impossible to beat for the money. ( normally aspirated. of course ).
I have no intention of this becoming so huge sale venture. ( These little to no money in big motors )
I only posted it because it seemed like a fun project and the mock up results look good.
The track will tell it all, These guys all have w/c motors now. If the Motors are gutless the world will find out. ( Thats how the internet works )
This an't a my motors can beat your thing. A few customers & friends want to try it so who am I to say no ?/
The first 3 guys I showed what these motors are going to be all wanted them without question. ( they know some things work and somethings don't ).
after 2 seasons of testing if they an't what they are cracked up to be I won't build anymore of them simple as that.
I'm damn near 50 years old. I gotta do something to keep my 1/2 empty head clear.
Trickedxcr - I twisted one of my 1200's 9500rpm's last summer. 9000rpm out of 80mm stroke with a long enough rod is not a problem. The 1300 will turn 10,000 in race trim ( if it needed too. )
Let it snow !!!
Dan
Good points & questions.
SledStew, Your exactly right.........That is exactly why I am going to run these motors for 2 years before I believe any of it.
Trickedxcr - Your example is exactly why I am doing this & you are 100% correct. - First, I have had a few of Robs 975 in the shop and 183 hp is awesome to me. I looked the porting over and it was all pretty basic. The 05 cylinder is pretty good stock and the 06 is better yet.
Stock 900 -( 860cc ) - 155/2 = 77.5hp per hole, 77.5 X 3 ( 1290cc ) = 232.5 hp with stock cylinders.
Now Robs 975cc 183hp /2 = 91.5hp per hole, 91.5 X 3 ( 1462cc ) = 274.5 hp @ 7800 rpm *( Now make Rev it up where a triple is happy ) 8500 rpm+ and you got 300hp + by accident. ) in trail form.
So from a 1290cc to a 1462cc - ( 175cc ) increase in displacement. the motor gained 42hp.... thats 14hp per cylinder for the bore increase of 57.5cc per hole. ( Thats awesome to me ) I'm Not expecting anymore then that.
So a 1462cc with mild porting would be 275hp in trial form out of OEM cylinders you can buy on ebay for $100 to $225 each.
( then you add the normal gain ) that happens when you go to 3 cylinders and you increase enigine speed and the 1462cc will be over 300hp
A W/C 1500cc needs Custom Cast cylinders to the tune of $1500 to $2000 each when finished.... depending on who ports them. Then the case work is staggering.
I am not doing this to sell motors, Its a sell centered thing for me and a few of my buddies and a few customers that are dieing to try them.
I have told them they will be very low cost and dollar for dollar almost impossible to beat for the money. ( normally aspirated. of course ).
I have no intention of this becoming so huge sale venture. ( These little to no money in big motors )
I only posted it because it seemed like a fun project and the mock up results look good.
The track will tell it all, These guys all have w/c motors now. If the Motors are gutless the world will find out. ( Thats how the internet works )
This an't a my motors can beat your thing. A few customers & friends want to try it so who am I to say no ?/
The first 3 guys I showed what these motors are going to be all wanted them without question. ( they know some things work and somethings don't ).
after 2 seasons of testing if they an't what they are cracked up to be I won't build anymore of them simple as that.
I'm damn near 50 years old. I gotta do something to keep my 1/2 empty head clear.
Trickedxcr - I twisted one of my 1200's 9500rpm's last summer. 9000rpm out of 80mm stroke with a long enough rod is not a problem. The 1300 will turn 10,000 in race trim ( if it needed too. )
Let it snow !!!
Dan
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T
trickedxcr
Well-known member
Indy Dan
The 975 with twins i was talking about was a full race motor c-16 for asphalt.The porting and pipes on paper would put rpms at 8200-8400rpms but would never make power up in that rpms.he had a hell of a time spinning it to 8200 with every pipe mod that was possible.he even looked into reporting and having the transfers,boost,and exhaust ports opened up even more thinking this would increase topend rpm and hp but it ended up hurting the motor more than helping.Remember a cast crank shop cylinder has just as much if not more material that can be worked with on there cylinders.transfer to transfer from what i saw the crankshop cyls. have more potential to make power than the stock 900cyls.I just don't see how even a full blown open the ports up so you can stick your head in them to look at the cross hatch with any pipe combo with the 80mm stroke would rev to those rpms.Even if it was achieved it would take forever to rev to full rpms (race is already over) by time full rpm is achieved.not saying it is impossible i just cant picture it in my head.Also that stroke if i remeber correctly had alot of crank issues due to harmonics and balance.This is why you made the torquemaster bottom end for this motor as crank failure was inevitable from stock crank.now take that same crank add another section to it and now you got even more stress than before.not to mention the harmonics end if you do get the motor to rev to 9000rpms what would reed life be?Like i said i am not trying to piss on your parade by any means and new products lead to new inovation and increased performance but there is several issues that will need to be addressed.Also the main limiting factor on most motors naturally asspirated, large displacement cc's is the intake.most large bore 1200+cc's can have porting that can actually exceed the intake.with that said the motor can actually flow more but the intake limits this as only so much air can be inducted into the motor no matter how much case porting is done.this is why most 2stoke big bores will only reach a certain limit and than performance gains after a certain extense is little to none.the only way around this is one of 2 ways.1st design your own bottom end with larger intake tracks for the case and have a company custom make reeds.2nd forced air induction (turbo).like i said this is only my view.no hard feelings.
The 975 with twins i was talking about was a full race motor c-16 for asphalt.The porting and pipes on paper would put rpms at 8200-8400rpms but would never make power up in that rpms.he had a hell of a time spinning it to 8200 with every pipe mod that was possible.he even looked into reporting and having the transfers,boost,and exhaust ports opened up even more thinking this would increase topend rpm and hp but it ended up hurting the motor more than helping.Remember a cast crank shop cylinder has just as much if not more material that can be worked with on there cylinders.transfer to transfer from what i saw the crankshop cyls. have more potential to make power than the stock 900cyls.I just don't see how even a full blown open the ports up so you can stick your head in them to look at the cross hatch with any pipe combo with the 80mm stroke would rev to those rpms.Even if it was achieved it would take forever to rev to full rpms (race is already over) by time full rpm is achieved.not saying it is impossible i just cant picture it in my head.Also that stroke if i remeber correctly had alot of crank issues due to harmonics and balance.This is why you made the torquemaster bottom end for this motor as crank failure was inevitable from stock crank.now take that same crank add another section to it and now you got even more stress than before.not to mention the harmonics end if you do get the motor to rev to 9000rpms what would reed life be?Like i said i am not trying to piss on your parade by any means and new products lead to new inovation and increased performance but there is several issues that will need to be addressed.Also the main limiting factor on most motors naturally asspirated, large displacement cc's is the intake.most large bore 1200+cc's can have porting that can actually exceed the intake.with that said the motor can actually flow more but the intake limits this as only so much air can be inducted into the motor no matter how much case porting is done.this is why most 2stoke big bores will only reach a certain limit and than performance gains after a certain extense is little to none.the only way around this is one of 2 ways.1st design your own bottom end with larger intake tracks for the case and have a company custom make reeds.2nd forced air induction (turbo).like i said this is only my view.no hard feelings.
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Yeah, The OEM cranks to lite in the 900 twin.
When you make a triple out of a 900 twin crankshafts its one of the happiest cranks you will ever see.
Smooth as glass and will twist to the moon.
I also have 3 different strokes, 80mm is not the stroke of all motors.
No hard feelings here buddy.
Dan
When you make a triple out of a 900 twin crankshafts its one of the happiest cranks you will ever see.
Smooth as glass and will twist to the moon.
I also have 3 different strokes, 80mm is not the stroke of all motors.
No hard feelings here buddy.
Dan
So dan how will one of your 1300 be fuled will it be carbs????
im runing 48 round sldes on my 1200wc with great luck. im running a wsm tube sled with a 151m10, 1200wc ported by doug ruth bards head and cdi crank shop pipes
doug johnson
406
439
3429
i will like to know more or the 1300
im runing 48 round sldes on my 1200wc with great luck. im running a wsm tube sled with a 151m10, 1200wc ported by doug ruth bards head and cdi crank shop pipes
doug johnson
406
439
3429
i will like to know more or the 1300
Hi John, I have seen a few set of cylindes done by Doug he does nice work i'll bet it runs really well. Yes all carbs, Hard for to believe you like the 48 rounds ?/ My God you must have hands Godzilla. I like the lectrons much better for throttle pull and full throttle full flow is much better then the rounds. But what ever works for you. I run mainly the 1/8 mile & I personaly like small carbs for drag racing I tried 44, 46 & 48 Lectrons and they worked great every where except the zero to 60 ft times sucked. I had 46mm reducers in the 48's and that help but even the 44's have a slight flutter or pause. I will be running 38mm Lectrons and 38mm Rack flats. the 1/4 mil also switching to exhuast valve cylinders. The valvesless cylinder do not have enough bottom-end punch off idle. The engagement has to be to high and it spins the track or pulls the skies to high. Last year I ran 3 1200 w/c motors with non valve cylinders and they work good except the valve motor has better low-end control.
Dan
I have two two wc 1200's now (both ves) one slp ported with 13.8 comp ratio and 48mm lectrons
the other is a 12.5 CR stock cyls with 38mm rackslides
the small rackslides give the ves 1200 (which is already a tq monster) some crazy bottom end really fun day to day riding and especially low speed/tree/technical stuff!
obviously the 48mm ported setup has some longer legs and is no means a slouch outta the hole!!!
the other is a 12.5 CR stock cyls with 38mm rackslides
the small rackslides give the ves 1200 (which is already a tq monster) some crazy bottom end really fun day to day riding and especially low speed/tree/technical stuff!
obviously the 48mm ported setup has some longer legs and is no means a slouch outta the hole!!!
oh man, if these come with a warranty, I'm getting the 1300 
Hello everyone, sorry I have been away for awhile.
2 many irons on the fire, I have a few motors completed and they will be tested this summer on the asphalt.
I am sorry to say that no matter what the results I will be building very few of these the Long Rog 800 Small Block motors have taken over most of the shop time.
I will report back on the 1300 in am going to run & I also told my other customers about Snowest & they should be reporting also if they choose to.
Matty sorry I didn't get back to, Lets chat next week. Time is short for me
this week.
Thanks, Dan
2 many irons on the fire, I have a few motors completed and they will be tested this summer on the asphalt.
I am sorry to say that no matter what the results I will be building very few of these the Long Rog 800 Small Block motors have taken over most of the shop time.
I will report back on the 1300 in am going to run & I also told my other customers about Snowest & they should be reporting also if they choose to.
Matty sorry I didn't get back to, Lets chat next week. Time is short for me
this week.
Thanks, Dan
I think I will be in need of a small loan and an 1150 twin or 1300 triple if they come with a warranty and a price I can hide from the woman 
I think I will be in need of a small loan and an 1150 twin or 1300 triple if they come with a warranty and a price I can hide from the woman
Open a secret savings account now, lol
Open a secret savings account now, lol
I like your style!
Or my other favorite,” honey I just got sponsored, they sent me this stuff to test out”!
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