And what's the most practical way to determine how much tongue weight you have for any particular trailer or load combination?
Newbie tips for trailering in snow
- Thread starter SpencerA
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SpencerA
Member
They actually make a little scale to test. when I bought my trailer the guy owned a RV shop so he had one. My trailer empty had 600lbs on the hitch. I'm sure its a lot like adjusting your brakes and just test driving it and making sure your load feels right.
Practical way? By sight and feel while driving.
When you drop the trailer onto the truck hitch (not accounting for load leveling suspensions), you should get some sag out of the back of the truck. Again, depends on how heavily sprung the truck is. Rule of thumb, if it drops the truck a couple inches, you're ok. When driving, once you reach the magic speed, 45-60mph, if the trailer does not track straight and keeps trying to "tail wag the dog", you're too light on tongue weight.
IMO not enough tongue weight is about the worst possible condition for having an accident. I'd rather tow waaay overloaded than tow with not enough tongue weight.
It's not rocket surgery. It's too light if the truck doesn't sag and too heavy if it tanks the @ss end of the truck. Anywhere in between is okay. Typically if you have the load's center of mass centered on the traile length wise you're ok since most trailers are designed a little weight forward by their axle placement.
SOmething else to note, IF you do get the trailer swaying, stomping on the truck's brakes is NOT the way re-gain control.
If this happens you need to put tension between the truck and trailer. This can be done 2 ways. If you have elect trailer brakes, maintain some throttle and manually apply trailer brakes until it's straightened out.
The other way is counter intuitive until you've done it (like countersteering, haha). Trailer starts wagging, hit the throttle! Same effect, puts tension between the truck and trailer.
Also if it starts wagging AND you have room on the road to yourself, don't fight the steering wheel too much trying to keep everything in one lane. If you can let the truck wander a bit with the trailer while using the above methods to get back in control it will happen quicker and with less throttle or trailer braking.
There's a fine line between doing all this stuff right or making the situation worse, so keep 'er slow until you gain more experience or confidence.
Disclaimer: I was giving this type of advice to one of my buddies when we were new engineers with a const company. He was tasked with pulling a flatbed with a truck on it and had no trailer experience. He had no trailer brakes either. I told him how to get straightened out by using the throttle.
Well he actually got the trailer wagging during the trip and did as I said.
Problem was he was already doing 80+mph, DOWN a mtn pass when it happened. He ran out of throtttle pretty quick when the truck hit it's 90mph speed limiter and wadded up the whole mess. Totalled 2 trucks and the trailer.
His response to our equip mgr for "WTF were you thinking?" was "AZ800 told me when in doubt throttle out!" (This dude is a long story, bad driver. Drove his new WS-6 T/A into the side of a mtn one night with 4 of us in the car!)
So use good judgement with the advice please!
If this happens you need to put tension between the truck and trailer. This can be done 2 ways. If you have elect trailer brakes, maintain some throttle and manually apply trailer brakes until it's straightened out.
The other way is counter intuitive until you've done it (like countersteering, haha). Trailer starts wagging, hit the throttle! Same effect, puts tension between the truck and trailer.
Also if it starts wagging AND you have room on the road to yourself, don't fight the steering wheel too much trying to keep everything in one lane. If you can let the truck wander a bit with the trailer while using the above methods to get back in control it will happen quicker and with less throttle or trailer braking.
There's a fine line between doing all this stuff right or making the situation worse, so keep 'er slow until you gain more experience or confidence.
Disclaimer: I was giving this type of advice to one of my buddies when we were new engineers with a const company. He was tasked with pulling a flatbed with a truck on it and had no trailer experience. He had no trailer brakes either. I told him how to get straightened out by using the throttle.
Well he actually got the trailer wagging during the trip and did as I said.
Problem was he was already doing 80+mph, DOWN a mtn pass when it happened. He ran out of throtttle pretty quick when the truck hit it's 90mph speed limiter and wadded up the whole mess. Totalled 2 trucks and the trailer.
His response to our equip mgr for "WTF were you thinking?" was "AZ800 told me when in doubt throttle out!" (This dude is a long story, bad driver. Drove his new WS-6 T/A into the side of a mtn one night with 4 of us in the car!)
So use good judgement with the advice please!
Or you could trade me for my nice little 2 place enclosed aluminum trailer for the winter. About 1300# empty, tows like a dream, will fit 3 sleds if you shoe horn them.
I'll keep your big 4pl safe behind my Cummins..................I promise!
Hey also, thanks for not being one of "those guys" that is too proud to admit they don't know something and then eff up big time. You'll save your own butt from getting into trouble and the rest of us won't be p!ssed off when we sit in a traffic jam for 2hrs heading up the hill this winter only to find its an accident casued by some dude who didn't know how to control his sled trailer.
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I used a big shipping scale that goes up to around 1000lbs. I used a 2x4 cut to length such that the trailer sits level with the 2x4 between the scale surface and the bottom of the coupler. Worked well. As has been stated, basically just look to see that the rig drops some when the trailer is lowered onto the ball. I just thought it would be useful to provide some numbers for the statement "need enough tongue weight".
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SpencerA
Member
Or you could trade me for my nice little 2 place enclosed aluminum trailer for the winter. About 1300# empty, tows like a dream, will fit 3 sleds if you shoe horn them.
I'll keep your big 4pl safe behind my Cummins..................I promise!
Hey also, thanks for not being one of "those guys" that is too proud to admit they don't know something and then eff up big time. You'll save your own butt from getting into trouble and the rest of us won't be p!ssed off when we sit in a traffic jam for 2hrs heading up the hill this winter only to find its an accident casued by some dude who didn't know how to control his sled trailer.
I actually just upgraded from my 3 place trailer. Hopefully I don't regret it! I worked at a ski resort for 6 years and I can't tell you how many times I saw inocent people get caught up in wrecks from people going too fast and no experience. It ruins it for so many people and familys when the highway gets shut down for hours because of some idiot. I don't want to be one of those guys so I'm doing all the research now so I'm prepared.
"When in doubt throttle out" I like that.
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SpencerA
Member
Just wanted to give you a update to how my first week of pulling the 24ft enclosed went. I was pretty nervous pulling that much weight and the roads were really bad. I was shocked how well my rig hooked up. Never missed a beat. Many trucks had to pull over to chain up. I ran Blizzak tires on my rig and toyo observe on my trailer and I was shocked how well they did. Never again will I run A/T in the winter again. Thanks guys for all the help!
Advice I got when I started driving Over The Road Truck years ago.
"You can come down a hill too slow a thousand times but you'll only do it once too fast."
I try to take the attitude of going slow and then speeding up if the conditions allow it.
My dad also used to gripe about taking peoples brakes away and teaching them to drive without them. It would make better drivers out of alot of them. Don't fly up to a STOP or SLOW DOWN situation and stand on the brakes like alot of guys do. In slick conditions look far enough that you can roll up to it and stop without your brakes if need be.
"You can come down a hill too slow a thousand times but you'll only do it once too fast."
I try to take the attitude of going slow and then speeding up if the conditions allow it.
My dad also used to gripe about taking peoples brakes away and teaching them to drive without them. It would make better drivers out of alot of them. Don't fly up to a STOP or SLOW DOWN situation and stand on the brakes like alot of guys do. In slick conditions look far enough that you can roll up to it and stop without your brakes if need be.
