Loud Exhaust On Snowmobiles... Is there a place for this anymore?

[Big10inch]

My way has never been tried. This is YOUR way and it continues to lose us ground. YOUR way sucks, appeasing the bullies is what has actually lost us all of this land. Imagine what I could ride you say... I ride where I want already, making my sled quieter would make ZERO difference in my riding. You allow them to make the connection. When presented with this argument at land use meetings I call a spade a spade and tell them to pound sand. It is an illigitimate argument you are trying to lend creedance too. Shame on your for hurting our sport like that...

 

[High Voltage]

Well for everything you do, and say that is good/makes sense, you seem to say/act like a Big 10 Inch! I see why you chose it as your handle.

 

[kidwoo]

My way has never been tried. This is YOUR way and it continues to lose us ground. YOUR way sucks, appeasing the bullies is what has actually lost us all of this land. Imagine what I could ride you say... I ride where I want already, making my sled quieter would make ZERO difference in my riding. You allow them to make the connection. When presented with this argument at land use meetings I call a spade a spade and tell them to pound sand. It is an illigitimate argument you are trying to lend creedance too. Shame on your for hurting our sport like that...

We've already established that you're 'special' remember? None of this applies to you so why so defensive?

Hurting the sport by what exactly? I'm I out there writing tickets? Asking people to close areas? Stealing people's cans? I do the opposite of those. Please tell me more about what I'm doing besides just saying loud cans are a gift to people who hate us on an internet forum. That's not anything that hasn't already been said 100 times in this thread by others. I'm talking to people capable of a real discussion. Obviously that's not special little you.

In the meantime I actually am trying to keep areas open, not just running my special mouth on an internet forum and nothing else.

 

[tbone677]

It's all falling into their agenda but it just got pushed back 10 more years call it agenda 30. Damm Demonrats anyhow. Like I said before I have found alot of friends becuz they were stuck and had loud cans. Long live the brapp

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[Big10inch]

We've already established that you're 'special' remember? None of this applies to you so why so defensive?

Hurting the sport by what exactly? I'm I out there writing tickets? Asking people to close areas? Stealing people's cans? I do the opposite of those. Please tell me more about what I'm doing besides just saying loud cans are a gift to people who hate us on an internet forum. That's not anything that hasn't already been said 100 times in this thread by others. I'm talking to people capable of a real discussion. Obviously that's not special little you.

In the meantime I actually am trying to keep areas open, not just running my special mouth on an internet forum and nothing else.

Hurting the sport by giving in to the bully. By taking THEIR side and being sympathetic to it. Loud cans do not make a damn bit of difference, it is a paper thin excuse easily dismissed.

Shall I start taking shots, glad to start that back up with you... I did my part, I am teelling you how it really works, have been trying for years. You dopes just keep trying the same old failed sh1t beating members of your side with STUPID ideas like loud cans are why we lose land. That is simply not correct. You help the opposition when you suggest, nay, PREACH the gospel of loud cans suck.

I already knew this was a waste of time but man you need to get with it. Make a REAL protest and I am in. This appeasement plan you are on remains an epic waste of time and effort, same old broken mantra. But hey good luck... how much land have you taken back thus far?

 

[kidwoo]

You don't seem to know the difference between appeasement and the ability to act with impunity.

You're confusing the two and projecting all kinds of bullshit onto to me because what I said made you feel bad inside. I'm not appeasing anyone, especially when it comes to land use designations. You have no idea what I've been doing on that front and I'm sure as hell not helping people close areas. You have some weird extrapolations on that front. I'm certainly not helping areas get closed, your apathy and ego are.

Besides I can't keep up with your stories. First "your way hasn't been tried yet", and now you've "been trying for years." Figure that out first. In meantime, I'm not telling you what to do. Just what you CAN do if you want to make it easier to keep more crowded public places open.

There's a whole world of people between "snowmobiler" and "sierra club." When these kooks are trying to close areas you know what the first thing people without a dog in this fight can relate to? You know the answer. If it's the only way to get HP or weight fine. But when it does absolutely nothing but make more noise, what are you really gaining out of that, vs. what you're endangering? I mean not you of course because you have your own valleys all to yourself, I mean everyone else who relies on public lands for access.

I'm not your enemy. Really.

 

[Big10inch]

Simple examples of appeasement to the other side... Colorado Snowmobile Association supported a bill to further limit snowmobile noise. They also supported the bill to allow ALL LEO to enforce said law. That is helping the other side limit our rights, that is appeasement not acting with impunity. When they cried about the 1/4 mile wide strip we had along the highway for access the club gave it up immediately to appease. That didn't work either, they still push for more and snowmobile organizations regularly give in to these demands. Loud can, quiet can, makes zero difference, it is just a weak excuse and they have clearly beat the tar out of you over it to the point where you actually think it makes a difference. Truth is, it wont make any difference, their goal remains the same. It wont make it better to be quiet, that is a lie they are telling and you accept. Worse though, you bring that back to your side and perform the beat down of your own... I do not even know ANYBODY that owns a sled that doesn't have a can on it and they are all louder than stock. Probably puts you quiet can folks in serious minority... Maybe try supporting the majority of sledders by fighting back against stupid claims like you can is too loud. I just see that you have fallen into their trap and are working their program from thee inside out without realizing it.

When I first started fight for land use rights on behalf of my local sledders almost 20 years ago I thought like you do now. I worked the program, same one you are on now. News flash, it doesn't work, you are wasting time and spinning wheels unless you can produce a list of victories where you took land back. Since we both know you have not been successful restoring riding areas and opening up wilderness areas how are you measuring your success? This loud can thing is a distraction while they steal from you, that should be obvious by now shouldn't it?

I don't fight anymore because of people like you who are missing the program big time. Fixated on an issue that completely misses the point.

 

[kidwoo]

1. I'm not the colorado snowmobile association and have nothing to do with them.
2. This might surprise you but one of the things that motivated me to get involved was a photo of someone from the Blue Ribbon Coalition doing exactly what you describe: checking sound levels on sleds with the idea to write tickets. That is a monumental waste of time and money for snowmobilers to be funding. Let the people who cry the loudest put money into that crap if they want to.
3. You have no idea what 'program' I'm on. I'd be happy to tell you but you haven't come up with a single thing that accurately applies to how we're handling land use.


Stop making assumptions about me just because a club in colorado pissed you off and you think I'm somehow following your footsteps. You're projecting. And you could not possibly be more incorrect. Just because you made some dumb mistakes you regret, doesn't mean everyone else is. At least consider the possibility that just because I personally might think your sled sounds annoying, I'm not going to try and take it from you or close lands to you. Are you capable of that? I can think your truck looks stupid too but that doesn't mean I'm automatically trying to eliminate trucks. One is an opinion and one is a policy. Do you understand the difference?

 

[Big10inch]

So if you are such a staunch advocate for my rights why on earth the focus on loud cans? It is a rediculous focal point that will not get sledders anywhere.

I am sure your program is MUCH better than what the rest are doing. Unfortunately this aspect of your program still doesn't make any sense and leads me to believe not much has changed, especially since you have no voiced ANY of your wonderful new ideas. My contention is that you are really not doing anything much different than as been done for the last couple of decades, prove me wrong. First step would be getting off this stupid loud can mantra. It isn't the answer...

 

[kidwoo]

I'd take all your belligerent assumptions personally but you don't know enough to actually insult what we've been doing. The fact that you're too lazy to even click on the link in my signature and poke around on the site and social media tells me you're still just shooting from the hip and just want to throw personal insults at me without knowing what you're talking about.

Going after sledders is not part of our 'program'. I just bumped up this thread because it personally makes me a little bummed that 10 years later after it was posted I still see guys with stuff that sounds like straight pipes bobbing around pinned about 60 feet from multi-use trailheads that access really good sledding. That makes new allies for the people that hate us that otherwise wouldn't care or might otherwise even sympathize with us. It just makes trying to convince the FS to keep these areas open more difficult, whatever your philosophical beliefs may be. That's just the truth. But we're not the people that pissed you off in colorado.

But part of fighting for the rights of snowmobilers includes fighting for the right to make bad decisions or be annoying. We're subject to a double standard that needs to stop. No one closes ski areas when some dipshit ducks the ropes, causes an avalanche and kills someone and that's way more serious than running loud cans. So regardless of what you do with your exhaust, we're going to fight for your right to do it.

But if you really want to know: Do you know what the revised travel management subpart C implementation has put into place for the forest service? If you ride dirtbikes, quads or even just dirt roads to go hunting camping or fishing you'll remember when roads started getting gated off all over the place about 10-15 years ago depending on when your forest started implementing the travel management rule.

Once your friends in the GMUG are done with their forest plan revisions they're doing right now, snowmobile travel management will be next. This will be a little different than every closure you've dealt with so far on FS land. They're doing it here in California first because of pressure from the groups that sued them to get a precedent in 'friendly territory'. So what happens here will be a template for what happens in the rest of the country, including where you ride on FS land.

If you'd looked into it at all you'd see that first, we've gotten people involved in the SIX different forests that doing plans right now. That's just the typical getting people to comment stuff but better than most of what we've seen in the past.

As expected, the FS is making some mistakes and we're going to take them to court over it. Not only to save our own riding areas but to make sure this nonsense doesn't spread nationally with the same stupidity. So our 'approach' is basically one thing and one thing only: Take the FS to court because it's the only way things change. Pretty simple. And whether you are aware of it or not, if we're successful this will benefit even you.

 

[Big10inch]

Thank you for confirming that NOTHING has changed... Let us know how it works... You think that yours is a new idea? There have been dozens of lawsuits filed on our behalf over the years, show me one that has brought positive results to our community... Same old failed program, like I said...

 

[kidwoo]

Oh no.

I couldn't convince the triggered guy who doesn't even understand what he read.
Shocking.

I guess we'll all go back to doing nothing and wondering why nothing changes. Can't deny the wisdom in that!

 

[IcutMetl]

Yet again; people that understand don’t need an explanation, and people that need an explanation won’t understand.

 

[smokindave]

Yet again; people that understand don’t need an explanation, and people that need an explanation won’t understand.

Yup I agree,you can’t fix stupid!


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[L.Hughes]

Thank you for confirming that NOTHING has changed... Let us know how it works... You think that yours is a new idea? There have been dozens of lawsuits filed on our behalf over the years, show me one that has brought positive results to our community... Same old failed program, like I said...

Not to get this thread off subject, but how do you propose to keep areas open and gain access to more terrain?

 

[IcutMetl]

Not to get this thread off subject, but how do you propose to keep areas open and gain access to more terrain?

By cresting the least amount of negative visibility for our sport using the land we are already using; that would be a great first step. We are all ambassadors for our sport!

 

[Big10inch]

Not to get this thread off subject, but how do you propose to keep areas open and gain access to more terrain?

Certainly not the way IcutMetl suggests! Go ahead and play by the rules made for you by the opposition. You are SURE to come out a winner that way LOL.

The lawsuits are a good start, nobody has really taken the USFS to task. The greenies can use our tax dollars to steal from us so it is difficult to make headway when you have to fund both sides. Again, we are playing by the rules THEY set up, another no win situation.

I think a large public display of civil disobedience needs to occur. I think the more such displays the better asserting OUR rights to recreate on public lands without being bothered by these enviro idiots. This idea has always fallen on deaf ears in our community. the left uses tactics like this everywhere in our society effectively to drive their agenda. We have just never been smart enough to employ those tactics against them. We as a group fall in line and become our own worst enemy by embracing the idea that it is our fault they do not like us and accept the punishment they dole out (loss of lands). Lack of organization, lack of true leadership, lack of a cohesive plan.

This thread is indicitive of the problem we have. Not that people wont fall in line with this idiotic "loud can" issue but that you have allowed yourselves to fall into this trap they set for you. Now you try to police your own BS rather than band together and FIGHT. Complicity is what we face. You are letting them make the rules for the fight. You will NEVER win that way. I am at a loss as to why this is so hard for so many to comprehend.

 

[kidwoo]

The lawsuits are a good start, nobody has really taken the USFS to task.

You literally change stances every other post. But hey I'm glad you're coming around.

I think a large public display of civil disobedience needs to occur. I think the more such displays the better asserting OUR rights to recreate on public lands without being bothered by these enviro idiots. This idea has always fallen on deaf ears in our community.

I agree completely. We're planning that too. The two approaches aren't mutually exclusive. But there's what happens in public and gets attention and then what happens regarding law that's going to have to be followed up with.

You should ask more questions than throw insults. You don't know everything. A big protest is fine. But there needs to be some meat behind it in meaningful action. Otherwise is just another big party that everyone goes home from and forgets.

 

[Big10inch]

Gee, thanks for the psych analysis and instructions on how to behave.... F U

You pasre my words and quote me out of context then claim I change my stance? Interesting program you have there... You skip the part where the lawsuits are mostly ineffective because of the way the system is set-up. Even though you obviously know this you use it to take a shot... Next you try the high road crap, how pathetic...

I shouldn't insult anyone but you can insult me? More interesting tactics, no wonder you haven't gotten anything changed...

 

[smokindave]

Gee, thanks for the psych analysis and instructions on how to behave.... F U

You pasre my words and quote me out of context then claim I change my stance? Interesting program you have there... You skip the part where the lawsuits are mostly ineffective because of the way the system is set-up. Even though you obviously know this you use it to take a shot... Next you try the high road crap, how pathetic...

I shouldn't insult anyone but you can insult me? More interesting tactics, no wonder you haven't gotten anything changed...

Yeah using your own words isn’t really fair is it?
What a waste of skin!


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