Losing Faith in current CFI engine

[Kraven]

RENTERS E-Z on SLEDS THEY DON'T OWN, LOL

I take nothing from Rental fleet stats on their 800 reliability. Not one sled in any rental fleet see's the day to day beating and heat some of us put on our sleds. I went through 2 pro motors in 1100 miles (40:1). Some riders like me ride harder than snot and also don't let their sleds cool down much during the day either like they should, since we are not taking any 20 min breaks. I also see an increase in Polaris 800 failures up here at 10-12K feet compared to anyone riding under 9K ft. I see the turbos up here get better reliability than stockers. I even can manage to blow up Cat 800HO motors prematurely too. All clutches with how I ride no matter new, old, perfect , whatever, get hot enough to fry eggs on. I can get twice the miles out of a cat 800 over a polaris 800 motor. I can get 3x's the life out of Polaris clutches over Cat clutches. It is what it is, and some of us see a lot more failures because of the way we ride. Getting a good warranty and DEALER really have made a big difference for me and not having a lot of downtime between failures.

While I do agree with some of your statements, and for the record I would honestly prefer to have a SUZUKI 800 in my POLARIS chassis today, you can't expect us to believe that friggin' mostly inconsiderate renters on a long track 800 are putzin' around the parking lot at 1/4 throttle all day.

The dealer told us we were the first group to return 800's WITHOUT damage all season, were told by the mechanic about how they downloaded the E.C.U.'s on some of these sleds and the sled overheated like 23 x on the trip

When we actually rode one of the 2013 800's with 7,400 miles on it, and they have (15) 800's @ 3,000- 5,000 miles each with ZERO failures, that's gotta say something

 

[rmscustom]

While I do agree with some of your statements, and for the record I would honestly prefer to have a SUZUKI 800 in my POLARIS chassis today, you can't expect us to believe that friggin' mostly inconsiderate renters on a long track 800 are putzin' around the parking lot at 1/4 throttle all day.

The dealer told us we were the first group to return 800's WITHOUT damage all season, were told by the mechanic about how they downloaded the E.C.U.'s on some of these sleds and the sled overheated like 23 x on the trip

When we actually rode one of the 2013 800's with 7,400 miles on it, and they have (15) 800's @ 3,000- 5,000 miles each with ZERO failures, that's gotta say something

The fact they're overheating proves that they are ridden easy on trails. Pro's don't overheat held wide open in deep snow, they over heat during slow speed trail use. Most renters don't have the skill to push em hard in the deep and just because they come back with a lot of damage doesn't mean they're ridden hard it just means somebody with limited skills couldn't keep it out of a tree.

Great to hear about the high miles either way though.

 

[Kraven]

The fact they're overheating proves that they are ridden easy on trails. Pro's don't overheat held wide open in deep snow, they over heat during slow speed trail use. Most renters don't have the skill to push em hard in the deep and just because they come back with a lot of damage doesn't mean they're ridden hard it just means somebody with limited skills couldn't keep it out of a tree.

Great to hear about the high miles either way though.

Perhaps the sleds overheated when the overly considerate and consciences renters left them idling while adding extra oil to the gas tanks

 

[rmk727]

Personally speaking; anyone that says they blow up poo and cat motors and clutches run so hot ,ect isn't riding as hard as perhaps foolish, even the nascar drivers ride with intelligence to be there at the end of the day and cheese change you clutching to reduce heat and install some vents. I too think a rental fleet will tell a tale. remember when they had the poo 900 and 755 as rental sleds just one season then changed brands. It wash't cuz they held up so good!

 

[Jay]

Perhaps the sleds overheated when the overly considerate and consciences renters left them idling while adding extra oil to the gas tanks

That's funny right there.

 

[knifedge]

--Dirt bikes using 2 stroke engines get run hardest and in more extreme conditions than a sled will ever see--heat, dust, rpms, etc. Ive run Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki and NEVER blown a cylinder skirt, piston, or crankshaft.
--Same hp/cc ratio as low end Polaris at .18 with a 250cc bike at 45hp

--If dirtbike motor was built to CFI 800 standards, doubt it would last even 2 weekends

 

[550iq]

Well, to those that lost faith in their sled's engines, maybe the engines lost faith in you and exited the scene. I say this because I had an Arctic Cat once that lost faith in me and ran like crap with all the normal grievances. It ran like the true Mountain Cat it was meant to be for the poor sucker that bought it for 5 cents on the dollar. It obviously had faith in him. 550iq

 

[550iq]

--Dirt bikes using 2 stroke engines get run hardest and in more extreme conditions than a sled will ever see--heat, dust, rpms, etc. Ive run Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki and NEVER blown a cylinder skirt, piston, or crankshaft.
--Same hp/cc ratio as low end Polaris at .18 with a 250cc bike at 45hp

--If dirtbike motor was built to CFI 800 standards, doubt it would last even 2 weekends

Wrong. Remember were talking about an 800cc twin, spinning a huge flywheel and torque load off the left side, pulling 700 lbs+ with a 163"x 2.5" paddle track through waist deep snow at 8,000+ rpm. The demands of a 250cc dirt bike engine pale in comparison. 550iq

 

[Skeld]

Wrong. Remember were talking about an 800cc twin, spinning a huge flywheel and torque load off the left side, pulling 700 lbs+ with a 163"x 2.5" paddle track through waist deep snow at 8,000+ rpm. The demands of a 250cc dirt bike engine pale in comparison. 550iq

I concur. The rolling resistance of the bike is squat, and the load is much more on and off. Most guys can't hold down the throttle on a 250 2T in the woods like you would on your sled. Another clue is that they get 25 or 30 MPG rather than 8.

Also the bikes aren't trying to meet any emissions standards so they are running rich with old school carburetors.

 

[ndC7M8]

I just wanna point out that all the dead-horse-beating around here lately seems to start with a swing from the basic member side. I think it may have something to do with the willingness to pay a little more for the total snowmobile experience & maybe not miss out on something.

I mean, can't you just get on one of the last 10 threads about unhappy Polaris customers and add to that? Now we've got the exact same thread for the bazzillionth time this season.

 

[snowmobiler]

LOL.

 

[CO 2.0]

Personally speaking; anyone that says they blow up poo and cat motors and clutches run so hot ,ect isn't riding as hard as perhaps foolish, even the nascar drivers ride with intelligence to be there at the end of the day and cheese change you clutching to reduce heat and install some vents. I too think a rental fleet will tell a tale. remember when they had the poo 900 and 755 as rental sleds just one season then changed brands. It wash't cuz they held up so good!

You are barking up the wrong tree with me. My clutching and sleds are always running top notch. Some ride just a tad harder than others and thats the fine line. My buddy following me all day has 1/4 of the problems I do. We stop the same amount. I just ride 25% harder than him. Equals to a lot more blown stuff. Failures over the last decade is proof enough for me, and thats all I care about.

Load on the sled is a lot harder on it than trail riding it hard

 

[knifedge]

Wrong. Remember were talking about an 800cc twin, spinning a huge flywheel and torque load off the left side, pulling 700 lbs+ with a 163"x 2.5" paddle track through waist deep snow at 8,000+ rpm. The demands of a 250cc dirt bike engine pale in comparison. 550iq

--The 800cc twin is supposedly designed for that type of load as the dirtbike motor is designed for its type of load. CFI 800 should last --at least meeting industry standard with current benchmarks being Rotax and Suzuki.
--IF the dirtbike motor was designed with the same standards of engineering workmanship and tolerances as a cfi 800 within their respective class of engines and purpose of use -- dirtbike motor probably would not last two weekends -- some CFI 800 motors barely made 500 miles

--Also, a normally aspirated engine is only putting out maybe 80% of rated sea level HP and torque at altitude, so torque and HP loads are greatly reduced at altitude. Running at altitude should extend the life of the engine...

 

[sledhead9825]

--The 800cc twin is supposedly designed for that type of load as the dirtbike motor is designed for its type of load. CFI 800 should last --at least meeting industry standard with current benchmarks being Rotax and Suzuki.
--IF the dirtbike motor was designed with the same standards of engineering workmanship and tolerances as a cfi 800 within their respective class of engines and purpose of use -- dirtbike motor probably would not last two weekends -- some CFI 800 motors barely made 500 miles

You obviously dont ride a dirt bike and a sled in the mountains. The sled works so much longer and harder. There is no comparison.

 

[Skeld]

You are barking up the wrong tree with me. My clutching and sleds are always running top notch. Some ride just a tad harder than others and thats the fine line. My buddy following me all day has 1/4 of the problems I do. We stop the same amount. I just ride 25% harder than him. Equals to a lot more blown stuff. Failures over the last decade is proof enough for me, and thats all I care about.

Load on the sled is a lot harder on it than trail riding it hard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCnHczLfXQc

 

[diamonddave]

My dealer told me....

 

[backcountryislife]

I can't believe what I'm hearing, that poo motors are less than the most awesome thing on the snow????

NO WAY.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

 

[TRS]

I thought I would add a little fuel to the fire. Here is the TPS history of a 2012 that own's the max WOT percentage that has ever came through my door.

 

[boondocker97]

You obviously dont ride a dirt bike and a sled in the mountains. The sled works so much longer and harder. There is no comparison.

Depends on the type of riding. The off-road bike is riden a little easier than my sled most times, but my motocross engines see absolute hell compared to what my sled does. 15-20min motos and I bet the WOT percentage is close to 50% (75% not counting warm up) with 190 degree water temperatures.

 

[Jaynelson]

I can't believe what I'm hearing, that poo motors are less than the most awesome thing on the snow????

NO WAY.

I know....finally the chance to discuss it we've all been waiting for.