Losing Faith in current CFI engine

[adam8781]

Disagree. Other than a sled, there isn't much you can buy in the consumer world that puts out 190hp per liter or more. Cut it up any way you wish, but they are a very high performance little motor (regardless of manufacturer).

That is a good point actually.

Where i think it falls apart a bit, is when people blame all these blown motors on "thats the price you pay for a ragged edge high performance motor" in that aspect its all wrong. It should be "thats what you pay for a 2 stoke that is fueled and oiled so lean to meet epa emissions"


All the efi out there really isnt for our benefit, its for emissions. You can take a 800r slap on a 872 or 880shr and get 185hp out of pump gas. And its more reliable than any stock motor. Bump compression to 100 octane, throw on a good set of twins add a bit of rpm and you have a 200hp sled that would go 3000miles on one set of pistons. And this is with simple 40-42mm carbs.


I hate the direction 2 stroke sleds are headed. Expensive, complicated, unreliable and heavy. It defeats the point of a 2 stroke doesn't it?

I would love to take a shr880 with twins and setup for av gas and put it in an assault. 200hp reliable, 30lbs less than the 800cfi and it would never leave you stranded.

case lol

 

[NHRoadking]

All these lil motors are VERY hi hp in comparison to other real world motors & lets not forget we all run alot @ WOT. Here's a little math if you don't believe.

Polaris 800cc = 165hp
165hp divided by 2 = 82.5hp per cylinder or 4.84cc per 1hp
Now take 82.5hp x 8 = 660hp @ 3,200cc or 195ci

My Jim's 120ci Harley Davidson race motor w/9k price tag

120ci = 1966cc
1966cc = 160hp or 12.29cc per 1hp

Chevy 427 @ 550hp

427ci = 6,997cc or 12.72cc per 1hp

These sleds are all about 3to1 when it's calculated down to cc's = hp. So your VERY wrong in saying these aren't high performance.
Just my .02 cause I know how to use a calculator.

Your point is taken.

However, I believe the current 800 makes more like 150 hp.

 

[elkhunt]

You might try the real hp numbers. which are according to American Snowmobiler's dyno and elsewhere on the net : www.amsnow.com


Polaris 800 Pro-RMK 155
Engine: 795cc Liberty 2-stroke HP: 143.2

Arctic Cat M 800 SP 153
Engine: 794cc 2-stroke HP: 163.4

Ski-Doo Summit SP 800 154
Engine: 800R E-TEC 2-stroke HP: 163.9

Seems that the super high performance Liberty is giving up 20+ HP to the competition with arguably less reliability.

All these lil motors are VERY hi hp in comparison to other real world motors & lets not forget we all run alot @ WOT. Here's a little math if you don't believe.

Polaris 800cc = 165hp
165hp divided by 2 = 82.5hp per cylinder or 4.84cc per 1hp
Now take 82.5hp x 8 = 660hp @ 3,200cc or 195ci

My Jim's 120ci Harley Davidson race motor w/9k price tag

120ci = 1966cc
1966cc = 160hp or 12.29cc per 1hp

Chevy 427 @ 550hp

427ci = 6,997cc or 12.72cc per 1hp

These sleds are all about 3to1 when it's calculated down to cc's = hp. So your VERY wrong in saying these aren't high performance.
Just my .02 cause I know how to use a calculator.

 

[RMK935VA]

All interesting comments. However, my dealer who is a very respected Polaris dealer does not recommend turning up the oil pump. I still don't understand the rationale for doing that. I don't know if it voids the warranty or not but I am not going to do it. My 13 runs great and has for the 600+ miles that are on it. The plugs look good and everything works as it should. I am not going to turn up the oil pump regardless unless my dealer recommends it. I have had two Pros (11 & 13). Neither one has had any motor issues or any other issues for that matter. I have a 4 year warranty if my 13 does take a dive on me. As far as the horsepower put out by the competitors, I prefer to use the weight to horsepower ratio as my divining rod. When looked at it that way, the Pros are on top of the heap. I want a light sled that handles well. My 13 is vented and clutched perfectly thanks to my dealer. I also run an X3 track that has made the sled a "cheater" as coined by my riding friends. Add in the SLP Mohawk skis and it is as close to perfect as any sled that I have ever owned. By the way, I had an AC M700. It was a piece of junk. The vaunted Suzuki motor was the worst part of the sled. It never did run right and I parted ways with it as quickly as I could. The Polaris 800s have had their issues over the years but I would take any of them that I have owned hands down over an AC or Ski Doo. My friends rand Ski Doos for several years and I towed them out multiple times when they broke cranks and had other issues. All of them break, even Yamahas, but I have seen better reliability out of the Polaris sleds over the last 15 years than the others. Go figure. Am I just lucky or am I onto something here?

 

[revrider07]

Just a thought maybe the Polaris gets rode harder and longer because your not tired and have to take a break and let it cool off.

 

[BigMan]

Disagree. Other than a sled, there isn't much you can buy in the consumer world that puts out 190hp per liter or more. Cut it up any way you wish, but they are a very high performance little motor (regardless of manufacturer).

I'm saying these CFI engines are not that much higher performing than any other sled engine, and even less so than so of Poo's own engines from 10 and 15 years ago.

If these new CFI 800's put out 200 hp and only lasted 1500 miles that would be somewhat understandable. But what is so high performance about the CFI that puts out <150 hp than Cats' 800 or Doo's 800?

Answer ---> Nothing.

If anything, I would say the CFI is LOW performance as it produces less hp than the Cat or Doo.

The numbers don't lie.

 

[YAMA S]

Even at 143.2hp that still works out to 5.55cc per 1hp. If you were to take those #'s and use then on my Jim's 120 that would = 354.23hp

My only point for my first post WAS that in order to find numbers like these you'd end up in either drag racing or Indy style racing hence these ARE high performance/hp motors!

 

[sledhead9825]

For being a fairly die hard Polaris rider, I'd have to say I'm quickly becoming ashamed of the quality of engines produced in recent years, and I was lucky enough to miss out on the Dragon saga. Sure they may be better, but it seems to me the issues persist.

Here is the brief history of this year, if you look through my old posts you would see that at the start of this year I was quite pleased, having only one issue to report. Not so much now

Start of season from my riding group: (bare with me on mileage figures, going off memory, all are 800s)
2011 SB Assault - stock - somewhere over 3000 miles no issues
2012 SB Assault - SLP pipe -800 miles - no issues
2012 Pro R SB - stock -2000ish miles no issues
2013 Pro RMK -stock 0-700 miles, Slp stage 2 700-2200mi, stage 3 after new top end at 2200mi. bad rings and scored cylinders

This seasons report to date:
2011 SB Assault- 5000+ miles, still original, no issues (somehow?!?!)
2012 SB Assault - top end failure at 1200 miles, hasn't seen a mile since mid january, broken piston skirt, mag side
2012 Pro R SB- Mag side ride bearing non existant, screwed crank, complete and utter engine destruction, all thats left is the head that could be used as salvage
2013 - 3200 miles - detonation issues, starting to die with going into reverse again, scared to put the compression tester on it again

So when you do the math, thats a 3/4 failure rate. Pretty piss poor. If you factor out the possibility of the mods on the 2013 causing engine related issues that still puts this at a 50% failure rate. and as you can see, none of the issues were the same.

Dear Polaris;

Please do listen closely: GET YOUR NEW ENGINE RIGHT! For the $200 000 or so my family has spent on new snowmobiles over the years, this does get old. I for one am about ready to buy a nytro motor, turbo the piss out of it, and jam it in the Pro chassis. That seems to be something Yamaha is willing to warranty even. Maybe something that you could use as a model for build quality.

Sincerely,

A Pissed off family of Polaris owners

Here's a idea. If your not happy with your purchase buy something else .
And put your wife's undergarments back in her drawer. Bhatch

 

[Jaynelson]

I'm saying these CFI engines are not that much higher performing than any other sled engine, and even less so than so of Poo's own engines from 10 and 15 years ago.

If these new CFI 800's put out 200 hp and only lasted 1500 miles that would be somewhat understandable. But what is so high performance about the CFI that puts out <150 hp than Cats' 800 or Doo's 800?

Answer ---> Nothing.

If anything, I would say the CFI is LOW performance as it produces less hp than the Cat or Doo.

The numbers don't lie.

You said they are not a high performance motor. I completely disagree. Any 800 sled motor is an extremely high performance motor by mass produced consumer standards. Although the Polaris motor has the lowest hp, there is an arguement that it's the lightest (the motor itself). Excuse...not really. But everything is a factor.

Because any modern 800 sled motor is a pretty strung out little engine, slight design or manufacturing deficiencies that you would get away with in a lower performance engine....you don't here. Does polaris have a little more of that going on than the other 2 currently? Sure. As much as it seems by the way we have to go over it again and again and again and again....often with people who don't own a CFI 800? Nope.

 

[BigMan]

You said they are not a high performance motor. I completely disagree. Any 800 sled motor is an extremely high performance motor by mass produced consumer standards. Although the Polaris motor has the lowest hp, there is an arguement that it's the lightest (the motor itself). Excuse...not really. But everything is a factor.

Because any modern 800 sled motor is a pretty strung out little engine, slight design or manufacturing deficiencies that you would get away with in a lower performance engine....you don't here. Does polaris have a little more of that going on than the other 2 currently? Sure. As much as it seems by the way we have to go over it again and again and again and again....often with people who don't own a CFI 800? Nope.

It's all relative.

And by the way, if Poo would give me a heli voucher I would order a 2015.

 

[BigMan]

Here's a idea. If your not happy with your purchase buy something else .
And put your wife's undergarments back in her drawer. Bhatch

Hey, does your mom know you're up this late?

 

[sledhead9825]

Hey, does your mom know you're up this late?

What make and model sled do you ride??

 

[BigMan]

What make and model sled do you ride??

Here it is.....

 

[Jaynelson]

It's all relative.

And by the way, if Poo would give me a heli voucher I would order a 2015.

How's the weather on your planet?

 

[BigMan]

How's the weather on your planet?

Got up to 79 today!

 

[snomac]

Well I'll throw out some of my own thoughts. I definitely want a reliable sled, but I have had more fun during the 1800 miles I've put on my 2013 Pro than any other sled I've been on. When I think back on all the rides on this sled, with long pulls and how we treat these sleds in the mountains. We flat out push them to their limits. So this last weekend when my crank broke and my primary clutch fell off. That sucks! but you just pull it out take it to the dealer to be repaired under warranty, and get ready for your next awesome ride. I've pretty much excepted that this is part of the sport I love. I know I had plenty of issues with my Arctic Cats over the years and not half the fun as riding this Pro.
I guess less reliable = more fun!! Tough choice for some... I could ride a Yamaha forever with no issues, but I'd rather ride my couch. Just sayin...

 

[sledhead9825]

Here it is.....

I guy who calls himself Bigman probably got short somewhere.

 

[CO 2.0]

I take nothing from Rental fleet stats on their 800 reliability. Not one sled in any rental fleet see's the day to day beating and heat some of us put on our sleds. I went through 2 pro motors in 1100 miles (40:1). Some riders like me ride harder than snot and also don't let their sleds cool down much during the day either like they should, since we are not taking any 20 min breaks. I also see an increase in Polaris 800 failures up here at 10-12K feet compared to anyone riding under 9K ft. I see the turbos up here get better reliability than stockers. I even can manage to blow up Cat 800HO motors prematurely too. All clutches with how I ride no matter new, old, perfect , whatever, get hot enough to fry eggs on. I can get twice the miles out of a cat 800 over a polaris 800 motor. I can get 3x's the life out of Polaris clutches over Cat clutches. It is what it is, and some of us see a lot more failures because of the way we ride. Getting a good warranty and DEALER really have made a big difference for me and not having a lot of downtime between failures.

 

[rmscustom]

Everybody talks about the lack of oil these motors use stock. Nobody talks about the super lean fuel map they come with. Especially at the 9000'+ elevation CO 2.0 is talking about. I hear all the time about boosted motors lasting longer. Why is that? More fuel = cooler temps?

 

[Newby2sleds]

Everybody talks about the lack of oil these motors use stock. Nobody talks about the super lean fuel map they come with. Especially at the 9000'+ elevation CO 2.0 is talking about. I hear all the time about boosted motors lasting longer. Why is that? More fuel = cooler temps?

The EPA is to blame for the lean fuel map and lean oil injection. The manufacturers have to follow these strict dictations from the EPA and it is only going to get worse. IMO the sleds in the future are going to be much more difficult to mod and manipulate. This is one of the things I love about sleds... I love tinkering. I think it is possible for a turbo sled to be more reliable (of course depending on how it is ridden and tuned). They run a lot closer to the ideal AFR. We ride mostly technical terrain and the turbos don't have to rev as high (different clutching and make more torque) and depending on the day burn less fuel. It's always better for longevity in an engine if you can make the same power at a lower RPM.

It will be interesting to see what we will have to do to mod our sleds in the coming years. IMO running an aftermarket ECU will be necessary. Either that or a "tuner" will come up with a bad *** carb setup to replace the fuel infection.