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Lightest possible moto-x helmet ideas?

I think he was referring to the leatte neck brace. I have one and am having some difficulty trying to figure out how to make it work with a jacket on.
As far as helmets go. Check out the Bell moto8, Shoei, Klim, Arai, Troylee designs, Fox v3, and the Hjc or Thor carbon fiber. I know you already had looked at some of these. These would be the best quality lightweight helmets out there. You may find some lighter, but most likely only DOT approved and not Snell.
 
leatt is extreme

I saw the leatt neck braces yesterday while surfing, and they seem pretty sweet but a little aggressive for me, maybe. I think I will try the 2lb giro snowboarding helmet (dual purpose) and the 3"foam neck brace from Bell for starters.

I imagine it'll be 3 or 4 pounds less on my neck, which is great.

This is all contingent on my hand numbness abating...hopefully the dr. can fix that. I will be bringing this thread on the laptop to get his opinion.
 
Giro Remedy Carbon Fiber

never thought I would say this...but after lots of research, I have made the switch...

Just bought two of these Giro remedy Carbon Fiber helmets...they are super strong structurally, and very good from a testing perspective ASTM f2040 and CE EN 1077 (european standard)

summary...basic test variance is that MX helmets are tested via a drop of a helmet from 3.0 meters and cannot exceed 300g's of force...the ASTM f2040 standard does the same test, but from 2.0 meters fro a variance of (3 MPH 11 vs. 14mph) All the standards have various anvil smash test...here is a good article someone else posted on the old forum copied here for review for those who love the research stuff

So, for me, the speed variance is not that dramatic, and with teh variances in the testing (as I understand it) makes up for that...

The only place I have found that is doing the Giro Remedy Carbon Fiber ones at a discount is a place called Blue Sky Cycling, talk to Eddie extension 207 and he will more than likely give you a VERY good deal on these...

found them while doing research...
 
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I really like the GIRO helmet as well. I didnt think any guys on here would wear them. good to see im not the only one. I mean, really, if your not rippin and riding in the deep stuff, whats the big deal about DOT standards and all. Hell, I've seen some mtn. bikers take some nasty nasty spills with these style helmets. more nasty than anything I've gone through in MX racing.

giroremedyscomp-2T.jpg
 
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I had cervical disc fusion surgery in November and haven't rode yet, but I bought a race-neck support collar just to be safe. I've been looking for a lighter helmet also. Thanks for all the info.
 
Careful with Non-DOT!!!

I'm a little late with my post, but I would be really careful wearing anything that isn't DOT or SNELL approved. :confused: All I do is boondocking and mountain riding and I always considered my helmet as a head warmer. That was until my sled came over on top of me!! I was going down a steep decline and the skis caught and the sled came right on top of me. Track and tunnel landed squarely on my head. Gave me a black eye, and scraped up face. Completely tore up the helmet. You can see the stress fractures on the face mask and where the paint came off. I was only going 15 to 20 miles and hour.

By the way, the helmet I was wearing was the old Bell Moto 8 (DOT and Snell). It is a carbon/kevlar construction and very light. Replaced it with the new version. Only around 3.5 lbs. Love the new helmet!!!

Just my 2 cents.

crushed-helmet-side.jpg crushed-helmet.jpg
 
I'm a little late with my post, but I would be really careful wearing anything that isn't DOT or SNELL approved. :confused: All I do is boondocking and mountain riding and I always considered my helmet as a head warmer. That was until my sled came over on top of me!! I was going down a steep decline and the skis caught and the sled came right on top of me. Track and tunnel landed squarely on my head. Gave me a black eye, and scraped up face. Completely tore up the helmet. You can see the stress fractures on the face mask and where the paint came off. I was only going 15 to 20 miles and hour.

By the way, the helmet I was wearing was the old Bell Moto 8 (DOT and Snell). It is a carbon/kevlar construction and very light. Replaced it with the new version. Only around 3.5 lbs. Love the new helmet!!!

Just my 2 cents.

Yea yea.. what ever. watch this video and you will not hesitate buying a bike helmet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZwFN2NyTPI&NR=1 :)

I know what your saying, and I myself have taken some bad spills and had helmets actually split open. Actually that doesnt look too bad. I have busted shields and cracked paint. I'm not saying you didnt feel that one. Im sure that wasnt a fun time at all. I had a Shoei hemlet that split and and Arai helmet that busted at the face guard. I guess, I am just not as concerned when it comes to slow deep pow riding. Im not into the crazy steep stuff, so I will take the risk.

Here is the giro remedy S (snow verzion) I bought: ONLY 1.98 lbs.

giroremedyscomp-2T.jpg
 
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I'm a little late with my post, but I would be really careful wearing anything that isn't DOT or SNELL approved. :confused: All I do is boondocking and mountain riding and I always considered my helmet as a head warmer. That was until my sled came over on top of me!! I was going down a steep decline and the skis caught and the sled came right on top of me. Track and tunnel landed squarely on my head. Gave me a black eye, and scraped up face. Completely tore up the helmet. You can see the stress fractures on the face mask and where the paint came off. I was only going 15 to 20 miles and hour.

By the way, the helmet I was wearing was the old Bell Moto 8 (DOT and Snell). It is a carbon/kevlar construction and very light. Replaced it with the new version. Only around 3.5 lbs. Love the new helmet!!!

Just my 2 cents.

****Warning**** opinion contrary to conventional wisdom being offered below You must make this decision like all others *****by yourself****

I was too....read the research link that I posted...Snell and DOT are not all they are cracked up to be...
the debate is much greater than if snell or DOT then good, all others bad...brains and injuries etc. are not created equal...

Additionally, accidents are not all same...Here are a couple very important quotes from the article..

"Why the debate? Because if a helmet is too stiff it can be less able to prevent brain injury in the kinds of crashes you're most likely to have. And if it's too soft, it might not protect you in a violent, high-energy crash. What's just right? Well, that's why it's called a debate. If you knew what your head was going to hit and how hard, you could choose the perfect helmet for that crash. But crashes are accidents. So you have to guess. "

This will make more sense after acouple of other quotes you read...

"To minimize the G-forces on your soft, gushy brain as it stops, you want to slow your head down over as great a distance as possible. So the perfect helmet would be huge, with 6 inches or mosre of soft, fluffy EPS cradling your precious head like a mint on a pillow.

Problem is, nobody wants a 2-foot-wide helmet, though it might come in handly if you were auditioning for a Jack in the Box commercial. So helmet designers have pared down the thickness of the foam, using denser, stiffer EPS to make up the difference. This increases the G-loading on your brain in a crash, of course. And the fine points of how many Gs a helmet transmits to the head, for how long, and in what kind of a crash, are the variables that make the helmet-standard debate so gosh darn fun."


Here is where Snell gets kudos and criticism...

"But as helmet technology has improved and accident research has accumulated, many head-injury experts feel the Snell M2000 and M2005 standards are, to quote Dr. Harry Hurt of Hurt Report fame, "a little bit excessive."...To pass, the helmet is not allowed to transmit more than 300 Gs to the headform in either hit...

Tough tests such as this have driven helmet development over the years. But do they have any practical application on the street, where a hit as hard as the hardest single Snell impact may only happen in 1 percent of actual accidents? "



yes, that is right 300G's that is A LOT!!!! and less than 1 percent of the accidents...

""The Snell sticker," continued Newman, "has become a marketing gimmick. By spending 60 cents [paid to the Snell foundation], a manufacturer puts that sticker in his helmet and he can increase the price by $30 or $40. Or even $60 or $100. "

Yes, I am intentionally copying specific parts of this link so that maybe some will read it...

"Dr. Hurt sees the Snell standard in pretty much the same light.

"What should the [G] limit on helmets be? Just as helmet designs should be rounder, smoother and safer, they should also be softer, softer, softer. Because people are wearing these so-called high-performance helmets and are getting diffused [brain] injuries ... well, they're screwed up for life. Taking 300 Gs is not a safe thing."

again, not me but a foremost expert in the field...

remember, your SNell helmet is designed to allow transfer of 300G's to your head....however

"Newman isn't the only scientist who thinks getting hit with much more than 200 Gs is a bad idea. In fact, researchers have pretty much agreed on that for 50 years. "


continued below
 
continued from above

****Warning gross paragraph to ensue, but informative****

"The Wayne State Tolerance Curve is the result of a pretty gruesome series of experiments back in the '50s and '60s in which dogs' brains were blasted with bursts of compressed air, monkeys were bashed on the skull, and the heads of dead people were dropped to see just how hard they could be hit before big-time injury set in...The two tolerance curves agree on how many Gs you can apply to a human head for how long before a concussion or other more serious brain injury occurs. And the Wayne State Tolerance Curve was instrumental in creating the DOT helmet standard, with its relatively low G-force allowance.

According to both these curves, exposing a human head to a force over 200 Gs for more than 2 milliseconds is what medical experts refer to as "bad.""


and now on to DOT...

"In the other corner of the U.S. helmet cage-fighting octagon is the DOT standard. It mandates a testing regimen of moderate-energy impacts, which happen in 90 percent or more of actual accidents, according to the Hurt Report and other, more recent studies.

...

Where the Snell standard limits peak linear acceleration to 300 G, the DOT effectively limits peak Gs to 250. Softer impacts, lower G tolerance. In short, a kinder, gentler standard.

The DOT standard has acquired something of a low-rent reputation for a number of reasons. First, it comes from the Gubmint, and the Gubmint, as we know, can't do anything right.

The DOT standard, like laws against, say, murder, also relies on the honor system; that is, there's only a penalty involved if you break it and sell a non-complying helmet and get caught. Manufacturers are required to do their own testing and then certify that their helmets meet the standards"


info on types of crashes and what should be protected speeds for impacts etc.

"First, about half of all serious motorcycle accidents happen when a car pulls in front of a bike in traffic. These accidents typically happen at very low speeds, with a typical impact velocity, after all the braking and skidding, below 25 mph.

...Actual crash speeds are slow, but the damage isn't. These are serious, often fatal crashes

...The next-biggest group of typical accidents happens at night, often on a weekend, at higher speeds. They are much more likely to involve alcohol, and often take place when a rider goes off the road alone. These two groups of accidents account for almost 75 percent of all serious crashes.

...Another eye-opener: In spite of what one might assume, the speed at which an accident starts does not necessarily correlate to the impact the head—or helmet—will have to absorb in a crash

...How can this be? Because the vast majority of head impacts occur when the rider falls off his bike and simply hits his head on the flat road surface. The biggest impact in a given crash will typically happen on that first contact, and the energy is proportional to the height from which the rider falls—not his forward speed at the time. A big highside may give a rider some extra altitude, but rarely higher than 8 feet.

...In fact, the vast majority of crashed helmets examined in the Hurt Report showed that they had absorbed about the same impact you'd receive if you simply tipped over while standing, like a bowling pin, and hit your head on the pavement. Ninety-plus percent of the head impacts surveyed, in fact, were equal to or less than the force involved in a 7-foot drop. And 99 percent of the impacts were at or below the energy of a 10-foot drop"


Sorry soooo long, but tryign to condense like 10 pages into one message here, in a manner that might cause others to research this VERY critical issue themselves...

I have made the decision, and I am a safety freak!!!!

Here are the parting comments in summary of the article

"How many people were saved because their helmet was designed to a "higher" or "higher energy" standard than the DOT standard? As far as the Hurt researchers could ascertain, none. "

"The COST 327 results showed that some very serious and potentially fatal head injuries can occur at impact levels that stiffer current helmet standards—such as Snell M2000 and M2005—allow helmets to exceed."


And here is the one that pushed me to a non snell helmet...The scientist who studies this, or Joe wrencher who plays with your clutch...

"If you ask most head-impact scientists or the representatives of the European helmet manufacturers how they like the Snell M2000/M2005 standard, they will generally tell you it's unrealistic, based more on supposition than on science, and forces manufacturers to make helmets that are stiffer than they should be.

If you ask the representatives of many of the top Snell-approved helmet companies, they'll say the Snell standard is a wonderful thing, and they'll imply helmets certified to lower-energy standards—that would be any other standard in the world—are suspicious objects, like smoked clams from the 99 Cents Only store. And not as good at protecting you in an extremely high-energy mega-crash as a Snell-approved helmet is. "

So, here is the finale... the standard that the bike helmets, specifically the one I bought comply with two primary standards...ASTM f2040 and CE EN 1077...the ASTM f2040 does the same drop testing but from a few feet less than the MX style...it creates 96.1% of the force that Snell tests too...

"In our new results, no helmet exceeded 250 Gs in the 10-foot drop, and the vast majority of the 7-foot drops stayed well below 200 Gs. So falling at a 10-foot energy level today—a 99th-percentile crash—is like falling at a 7-foot energy level was back in '91"


safety is all percentages...and if I can be just as safe for 99.987% of the situations I will be in with a significantly lighter gourd cover, I am all for it!!!


but as I said, this is just me, and this is some of the detail I have studied, advise all study for themselves, and read for themselves on this critical subject...
 
Yea yea.. what ever. watch this video and you will not hesitate buying a bike helmet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZwFN2NyTPI&NR=1 :)

I know what your saying, and I myself have taken some bad spills and had helmets actually split open. Actually that doesnt look too bad. I have busted shields and cracked paint. I'm not saying you didnt feel that one. Im sure that wasnt a fun time at all. I had a Shoei hemlet that split and and Arai helmet that busted at the face guard. I guess, I am just not as concerned when it comes to slow deep pow riding. Im not into the crazy steep stuff, so I will take the risk.

Here is the giro remedy S (snow verzion) I bought: ONLY 1.98 lbs.

giroremedyscomp-2T.jpg

Hahaha....Right on RaceR! More power to you. Love the video! I ski in a Giro Remedy S and it's a great lid. But, I can get it to flex by hand. It's made to protect against slow impacts from hitting rocks/trees/ground/skiers etc. Not, made to protect against crushing impacts. i.e. sleds, avalanche.

But, you are right, everyone needs to consider the risk they are willing to take. Me...I want as much protection between my head and the outside world as possible.

Ride on!!
 
Thought you'd like that video!! :)

"everyone needs to consider the risk they are willing to take"

I'm with ya 100%. its not for everyone, but its light and easy on the neck. its protection is better than none and prob. better than some.
 
But, I can get it to flex by hand. It's made to protect against slow impacts from hitting rocks/trees/ground/skiers etc. Not, made to protect against crushing impacts. i.e. sleds, avalanche.

I was concerned about that too, when I bought the Carbon Fiber Remedy...then when I was home the other night I decided to flex my helmet, and could easier than the non CF Remedy, and went to the Fly Lite Carbon Fiber I have for my wife and sure enough, could flex it too, and my sons Fly lite, and my daughters Fulmer...all flex...

The real debate is speed of impact and energy absorbption for helmets...and I think (for me atleast) I am actually more comfortable, for the types of accidents we get in sledding, with this Remedy helmet...

and interesting part of the article if any read it, is that Snell still holds to 300G's blow is "acceptable" but the military standards are MUCH lower for pilots etc. the standard for dudes in GREAT shape, in training is 150g's...so if some Top Gun, or Blackhawk dude according to the military should only be subjected to 150 g's then I will in this case (like a lot) side with the military and opt for a helmet that lets less force in...

another side note, the head to head study they did, showed that the cheapy helmets you can get at Walmart (ZR1) and Pep Boys (Raider) actually performed better than almost any other...
 
Good info MTdream. It makes me happy to see that consumers are informing themselves and not just swallowing the propaganda fed to them by the uninformed majority.

When we were in the beginning process of designing our helmet they (TOBE Sweden) asked me if it needed to be Snell approved for the US market. He said the downside to it was a HEAVIER helmet and increased cost. Not only are you paying for the Snell tag but you are paying someone to sew it in the liner and attach the sticker.

I went through this whole Snell thing last year with our current helmet we offer and after much research, I came to the conclusion that the Snell standard is not what it should be. They laugh at it in Europe and Asia. Our helmets meet or exceed the DOT and ECE 22.05 standards.

Here is some copy and pasted info from a different study...

If you’re not comfortable with a helmet that only meets the US Government DOT standard, what do you look for? Historically, American riders have looked for a Snell label but the world is getting smaller and we now have other viable alternatives. The ECE 22.05 standard is used in over 50 European countries, including Germany, a country known for taking a hard line on personal protection.

Helmets certified to the ECE 22.05 standard are approved for competition events by AMA, CCS, FIM, Formula-USA and WERA and are chosen by nearly every professional motorcycle racers competing in world championship road racing, motocross and off road events, including the ultimate sport of Moto GP. Helmets that are certified to both DOT and ECE 22.05 offer the highest level of realistic protection with the added benefit of light weight for day-long comfort and rider performance.


Here is the link to the full article MTdream is referring to. Motor Cyclist
 
Looking for a newer thread but could not find it.

Any experience with Troy Lee SE ?

M2R X3 ?

Shoei V-MT ?
 
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