Letter to Senator Murray

[ruffryder]

Tough problem to solve. I agree there are always loopholes. I have not thought through all the caveats yet but I'm sure there is an answer out there somehwere. You just can't have one guy getting airtime on TV/press/etc in a 4:1 ratio compared to his competitor. The more press a guy gets the better chances he has to win, even if the coverage is meaningless. That's just the way it is.

That is the way we have made it. It works because we let it work.

They need to take popularity out of it and focus on the issues and policy, then hold them accountable.

I think you need to replace the "them" with "use" and "they" with "we"..

Honestly, I think we need to make TV illegal.. I think we have become used to turning off our brains every day and only being able to regurgitate the talking points and other nonsense that we hear all the time..

 

[Chazmanian]

i think you are way to polite, treason for helping in the destruction of your country is more like it

I would buy into that logic then I think about Medicare, Social Security and were not all these same barbs thrown around when the Dems pushed those programs through?

This current health care bill is a joke. Its almost as if the Ins companies were double agents and infiltrated the Dems whislt working with the right paying for signs, busses and rally time. Its a sad state of affairs when our legislation is driven by Corporate money and special interest.....

What excatly do you see as the "Destruction" of our country? Tarp? Stimilus? Health Care bill? All the above?

Just curious....You ever listen to this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

Think it destroyed the country yet?

I dont buy into the fear card. From either side.

 

[V-Man]

only being able to regurgitate the talking points and other nonsense that we hear all the time..

This is why I like the FOX format. Debate on issues from both sides stimulates the mind. Sure some people get stuck on talking points, but most folks get their wheels turning when hearing two sides of a story.

Today's coverage on the health care debate is maddening. Even listening to Obama. The guy is stuck in campaign mode. I need to hear some specifics. Give me some cause and effect. One side talks generically about increasing deficits, the other side decreasing. One side says lower care costs, the other says they'll increase. Would some one read the freaking bill, quote written policy, and discuss the effect it will have? In 2000 pages there has to be something good or bad that can be discussed in detail.

 

[Chazmanian]

Please elaborate, who were those "had great intellectual's and smart folks with real energy" you speak of? And did I not read a post in another thread where you claimed to have written 2 conservative books, would you enlighten us with the titles so I see if you are what you claim to be. Swampy

Ever hear of William Buckley or Barry Goldwater? Remember this one liner: "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice."

Now we have Rush Limbaugh and Glen beck? or Palin facebooking drivel with her montage of ghost writers?

Thats a bad deal for conservatism....Not sustainable!!!

I never said I wrote any books Swampy?? Maybe you have me mixed up with someone else?

 

[ruffryder]

This is why I like the FOX format. Debate on issues from both sides stimulates the mind. Sure some people get stuck on talking points, but most folks get their wheels turning when hearing two sides of a story.

Yah, but my problem is that there is rarely only two sides to the story. It isn't that cut and dry. I think that is a critical fallacy of those types of programs. I liked the old dude on PBS, McLaughlin group? Lots of different points of view, not just one side and the "other"...

Today's coverage on the health care debate is maddening. Even listening to Obama. The guy is stuck in campaign mode. I need to hear some specifics. Give me some cause and effect. One side talks generically about increasing deficits, the other side decreasing. One side says lower care costs, the other says they'll increase. Would some one read the freaking bill, quote written policy, and discuss the effect it will have? In 2000 pages there has to be something good or bad that can be discussed in detail.

Agreed on the above. Though, honestly, how many people would be able to follow what someone was saying when technically discussing the bill and ramifications of certain parts and sections. I don't think it would be a large percentage of the population.. not even a majority.

Private companies are the ones that decided if the bill is good. I am not talking about insurance companies or those involved. I am talking about all the consultants that are now part of the government. That is one of the couple of things that I HATE about what Bush has done.. sorry rant over..

 

[Chazmanian]

Private companies are the ones that decided if the bill is good. I am not talking about insurance companies or those involved. I am talking about all the consultants that are now part of the government. That is one of the couple of things that I HATE about what Bush has done.. sorry rant over..

I concur.

 

[ruffryder]

Dang, this has been a pretty good CONVERSATION...

good job folks!!

 

[Dobber1]

Back in February Obama has said it himself, he wants to fundamentally transform the United States. That in itself is Un-American.

That was his entire "Line" during the campaign....He threw out the bait...America bit! Is a Lying Politician something new and unheard of or???

Herein lies the real problem, no pun intended.....his "Line" during the campaign WASN'T a lie! Telling the truth was bad this time!

 

[Chazmanian]

Dang, this has been a pretty good CONVERSATION...

good job folks!!

No doubt!! It even stayed civil when you and your angst inspiring hotdogs hit the scene

 

[duffman]

Yah, but my problem is that there is rarely only two sides to the story. It isn't that cut and dry. I think that is a critical fallacy of those types of programs. I liked the old dude on PBS, McLaughlin group? Lots of different points of view, not just one side and the "other"...


Agreed on the above. Though, honestly, how many people would be able to follow what someone was saying when technically discussing the bill and ramifications of certain parts and sections. I don't think it would be a large percentage of the population.. not even a majority.

Private companies are the ones that decided if the bill is good. I am not talking about insurance companies or those involved. I am talking about all the consultants that are now part of the government. That is one of the couple of things that I HATE about what Bush has done.. sorry rant over..

Of what consultants do you speak? How was Bush responsible for this "consultant" problem. I don't want to start another Bush pissing match, we have had plenty of those and probably all mostly agree anyway. But what started out as a well thought out post fell back on the stock "oh well I am frustrated so bash George Bush it must be His fault".

If I remember correctly, Bush's cabinet was composed of just over fifty percent of people with some sort of private sector experience. This was in line with the other republican administrations of recent decades. From Jimmy Carter to Bill Clinton, the democratic administrations cabinets' have consisted of private sector people in the thirty percent range. Barack Obama's cabinet has only eight percent of it's members that have private experience.

As to your point Chaz, about the Insurance companies running this show, I would think a little more about that. They are jumping on the pork wagon, that is for sure, but who is ultimately in charge?

 

[ruffryder]

Of what consultants do you speak? How was Bush responsible for this "consultant" problem. I don't want to start another Bush pissing match, we have had plenty of those and probably all mostly agree anyway. But what started out as a well thought out post fell back on the stock "oh well I am frustrated so bash George Bush it must be His fault".

I will start a new thread. The above wasn't the case, but the precedence was set..

 

[Chazmanian]

As to your point Chaz, about the Insurance companies running this show, I would think a little more about that. They are jumping on the pork wagon, that is for sure, but who is ultimately in charge?

Well they (The Ins Industry) has gotta love this current plan....Mandates to buy private ins? What a joke.

Look at the dollar amounts spent by the Health Ins companies to absolutely influenece and dictate our legislative process....What 300 Million dollars or so and on track to hit half a billion by years end?

Where is all that money going? Whats it buying? Commercials on TV? Hookers, Steak dinners, booze, Ski Trips, More Hookers, More Booze, Busses to take Tea-Baggers to rallies? Obama joker signs?

Seriously though where is the money?

Half a Billion bucks runs any show it wants to....Look at the latest Health Bill!!! Forcing the entire country to buy Insurance or be fined? Jailed?

At a huge profit to the Ins Company's? I heard Health Ins stock jumped up to an insane dollars amount last week.

Look at the dollars spent in campaign contribuitions by the Ins industry. 28 Million in campaign contributions in 2008. 51/49 split between Dems and the GOP. Thinking 30 Mil buys a little influence in our legislative process no?

Ya' think thems just charitable dollars handed out in the form of Christmas gifts?

 

[woodzy]

Ya' think thems just charitable dollars handed out in the form of Christmas gifts?

Similar to the 300 million that Nebraska just "found under the tree"??? OOOO no wait, that's taxpayer dollars that fell out of Santas sleigh. MY DOLLARS. To buy a vote.

 

[BigRed118]

anyone know where we can find information about the current health care bill?

the actual bill itself..

Questions for you guys..

1) What exactly are you guys against in the bill?

2) Do you agree that the current health care system is broken and needs to be changed?

Ruffy,

It is hard to quote specifics when the final bill has not been written. They won't post what they are voting on and they introduce at the last minute changes. It was discussed yesterday that the bill that they voted on was introduced with so little time that nobody could have read it. It is unfortunate that they are pushing something like this through. What happened to the "transparency of Government" that Obama promised.

You asked if I thought the current heath care system is broken. Yes, I believe that Medicare is broken. It is scheduled to be bankrupt in the very near future.

Those that speak of how great this system will be cannot show one program that the government runs well. I have heard the Post Office used. They don't have enough money and are trying to change to 5 days a week because of the budget shortfall.

When the Government runs short of money, what do they do? They start to cut programs and benefits. Why is it thought that they won't do any different with Healthcare?

Our Government is becoming too all encompasing. I come from the mindset that they need to get out of our way so that we can prosper.

 

[BigRed118]

Also, when did we stop being a representative Government? It seems that our representatives are so insulated when they get to Washington DC that they forget why they are there. The poles show that the public is against this program. But they ram it through anyways. I guess I am frustrated living in a state that my voice is not heard. When King County carries the vote for the entire state it doesn't seem right. King County is the largest square mileage county in the country. It just seems tilted one way. I vote and speak my mind and hope that at some point "OUR" country will come back to what made it so great.

 

[V-Man]

Well they (The Ins Industry) has gotta love this current plan....Mandates to buy private ins? What a joke.

Yep. We're all getting screwed. I'm scared to know what else is in those 2000 pages. This bill needs to die. I don't see anyone who passionately loves what is in this bill. Even the dems say it stinks, lets just pass something and fix it later. Hmmmmm... I don't think so!

Look at the dollar amounts spent by the Health Ins companies to absolutely influenece and dictate our legislative process....What 300 Million dollars or so and on track to hit half a billion by years end?

Where is all that money going? Whats it buying? Commercials on TV? Busses to take Tea-Baggers to rallies? Obama joker signs?

Crooked politics is where that money is going. We need a major transformation to weed out corruption. You need to become a tea-bagger and support Glenn Beck Chaz. They are the only people who care and are not corrupt if you ask me. It really is a grass roots effort by concerned citizens. As businesses influence government we only get screwed more. We think this health care reform process and potential outcome are bad, I think this is nothing compared to cap and trade.

 

[BigRed118]

One other thing while I am on it. How is it that a State can "OPT" out of the program but they still have to pay??? How does that make any sense? Thanks Harry Reid for that.

 

[V-Man]

One other thing while I am on it. How is it that a State can "OPT" out of the program but they still have to pay??? How does that make any sense? Thanks Harry Reid for that.

Yeah, WTF? If it isn't good for every state then it can't be good for the country as a whole!

 

[Chazmanian]

Similar to the 300 million that Nebraska just "found under the tree"??? OOOO no wait, that's taxpayer dollars that fell out of Santas sleigh. MY DOLLARS. To buy a vote.

Thats right. Foul isnt it?

I'm as sickened at the Mary Landrieus, and Ben Nelsons as much as I'm confused by the half billion being spent to dictate and mold our countrys laws.

You need to become a tea-bagger and support Glenn Beck Chaz

Never. Beck is a short term solution to a long term problem. The guy gives me the creeps....Its like I'm listening to the Bob n' Tom show gone political when I tune into his radio show and he has major league problems with truth and and making up facts on his TV show. I like facts...I dont care for made up off the cuff stuff.

I dont like Pro wrestling either though so.....

You strike me as a solid stand up Dude V-Man. I respect your choice in Political direction....Its just not my cup of....Errr...Tea?

 

[V-Man]

Never. Beck is a short term solution to a long term problem. The guy gives me the creeps....Its like I'm listening to the Bob n' Tom show gone political when I tune into his radio show and he has major league problems with truth and and making up facts on his TV show. I like facts...I dont care for made up off the cuff stuff.

I dint like Pro wrestling either though so.....

You strike me as a solid stand up Dude V-Man. I respect your choice in Political direction....Its just not my cup of....Errr...Tea?

You don't have to like him, that I respect, but based on many of your comments on here he seems to have a better focus on the issues that concern you than anyone else out there.

I can't fact check everything, but I think he does a pretty good job backing up his statements with quotes and video clips that can't be argued. I don't listen to his radio program. It's too fluffy and doesn't get right to the point like the TV show.

I don't think his ideas are short term. What ideas are you referring to?

Calling out corruption isn't a one time thing. The media needs to be watchdogs of our government and be all over their chit 100% of the time. Limiting the power of government, also not a short term thing. This needs to be a continuous effort, for ever. The constitution helped, but by looking at what is going on today it either didn't do a good enough job or it is no longer respected.

We need to look at all the other nations on this planet that have succumbed to tyranny and learn from their mistakes. We are heading in the wrong direction. Ask the old timers in your life what they think. They're scared chitless because they know history.