Lean midrange

[francois]

It doesnt seem like my problem is as big as yours, mine will show --- only when i cruise at around 5500 but if a efather the throttle it will immediately show 14-15 which is right where it should be.

I really think its a gauge sensitivity issue or that in fact I am still too rich. I think I can deal with that bog, its just when it wass tock and lean int he mid range, I wont keep it cruising at always the same rpm.

How do you like the power? On my side Im still waiting for some clutching parts but at first I was not even close to feel anything. The new pro was ahead of me on a 1000' drag. Talked with IQ? on this site and im working toward his setup. 21/41 gearing looks to strong on the low end but works great once your started. drive spring now 160-260 will try 180-280 today. driven stock with 44-48-f-er helix but I should also receive my straight 50 today as he recommended.

With that setup I was in front of a stocker at 7 psi but not by a lot. when the boost kicks in you can really feel it, but I was under the impression that sled is more showing around 160hp than 180hp.

Maybe it's still clutching, and maybe the turbo will really show it's strenght when we get enough snow to get stuck lol!! (only have about 2 feet now so no real challenge except for my mediocre driving skill haha!)


Anyone having a input on why the sled would not show the hp's? No leaks, build boost no problem and hold it, doesnt fall on it's face and no det.

By the way, it happen twice to me now that when I get low on gaz it will start misfire at wot. I think it's because I may have replace the fuel line inside the gaz tank not properly so it cant suck all of the remaining fuel. Once I refuel it works great again...

Sorry for the english guys, if anyone has any inputs that would be appreciated!

 

[CHARIOT OF DOOM]

?

My lean midrange is from 5200-6600 rpm's. The sled will cut out or stumble and the AFR gauge is 18+ (dashed out). The lean spot starts in the green circuit and continues throughout the entire grn/blu circuit. As soon as I go from the grn/blu circuit to yel/blu circuit, the AFR goes from --- to ~12.0. You can definitely feel the power increase in the sled when the fuel gets added.

mine runs exellent when its on the boost(green blue). that one should be easy to adjust if you know for sure its that setting. what kit do you have? if its adjusted all the way rich might need to send it off and get new numbers it box. i ride a lot higher then you so maybe dont listen to me.

 

[CHARIOT OF DOOM]

i run 10lbs and in a drag race against an identical sled, mine flat out wooped it!! In the DEEP DEEP DEEP sled feels stock, till you watch REAL stock sleds give it a try! gotta be clutching or tunning. i have a silber kit with his clutching and love the sled minus the lean spot my aem shows me!

 

[Jonce]

mine runs exellent when its on the boost(green blue). that one should be easy to adjust if you know for sure its that setting. what kit do you have? if its adjusted all the way rich might need to send it off and get new numbers it box. i ride a lot higher then you so maybe dont listen to me.

According the controller, that's the circuit that its running lean on. I adjusted all the way rich with little to no change in AFR readings or feel of the sled. Also tried fuel pressure up to 42 psi and also changed grn and yellow. Perhaps the fuel controller will need to get adjusted. I'm just worried that it I will get it running great here at low elevation and then it will be completely out of tune out West.

I'm running Silbers kit, everything works awesome except for this small issue.

For people who don't have the Attitude Controller, as you increase rpms the controller will change colors on the display to reference what circuit you are in. The key to this is find a long straightaway that has no obstacles in the way. With that said, you should be able to look down as you gradually roll into the throttle and let the box go through each mode/circuit while monitoring AFR and boost.

 

[tree climber]

i talked about this a little bit last year i think with justin. i dont know that it is actually a lean spot i cant remember what i was told.. or who told it to me to be honest. but it was an issue with the wide band in a 2 stroke type of deal i want to say. i really should take notes on the things i talk to people about it seems my memory gets worse every day and a lot of useful things are lost. i do remember mine was doing that when it was way too pig rich though. in this instance it would be nice to run egts to verify a lean or rich condition because i was being told i was rich but in my mind i was worried about dialing it back

 

[Jonce]

i talked about this a little bit last year i think with justin. i dont know that it is actually a lean spot i cant remember what i was told.. or who told it to me to be honest. but it was an issue with the wide band in a 2 stroke type of deal i want to say. i really should take notes on the things i talk to people about it seems my memory gets worse every day and a lot of useful things are lost. i do remember mine was doing that when it was way too pig rich though. in this instance it would be nice to run egts to verify a lean or rich condition because i was being told i was rich but in my mind i was worried about dialing it back

Thanks, I think I ran across a few of your posts from last season. If I didn't feel the seat of the pants difference (basically taking off like a rocket) when it switches modes/circuits at 6600-6700 rpms, then I wouldn't be as worried about it.

I expect some hurdles with any modification and I'm sure I will get it figured out. Every sled is different and there seems to be a different combo for every user with a turbo (i.e. flash update, elevation, fuel controller version, etc.)


Didn't mean to hijack the thread, sorry.

 

[KAWGRN]

My lean midrange is from 5200-6600 rpm's. The sled will cut out or stumble and the AFR gauge is 18+ (dashed out). The lean spot starts in the green circuit and continues throughout the entire grn/blu circuit. As soon as I go from the grn/blu circuit to yel/blu circuit, the AFR goes from --- to ~12.0. You can definitely feel the power increase in the sled when the fuel gets added.

Current setup:
1,000 feet elevation (Minnesota), 20* F air temp
'09 Dragon 800
Attitude Ind box v3.25
Sled was updated 4/15/10 with new flash, pistons, head, crank
Straight 110 race fuel until I get this tuned
Intercooler
40 psi fuel pressure (tried 38 and 42 psi as well)

something seems strange Im at 43-45psi at 10K ft??? mine runs perfect,09 ecu,

 

[jeepin270]

Is this problem just with the attitude box? I havent heard anybody with a differant fuel box having these same problems.

 

[skibreeze]

I finally took the BD turbo off of mine. I worked on mine constantly trying to get it figured out and never could.

 

[adam5187]

I have just installed silbers kit on my 07 D7 with the attitude 3.25. I only have had it on 1 run so far but it seems to pull good. I am running 3lbs of boost at 1000' on straight av gas to be safe, and I get the same thing on my afr gauge. My dragon when it was stock acted the same way sometimes even worse, so I got into the habbit of burping the throttle, and it always seemed to make the sled run better. My buddy has a 10 M8 with a boondockers kit on it and it has a lean midrange. If you burp the throttle it richens back up as well and the thing rips. He tried to tune it out by upping his numbers and ended up making it run terrible, so he put the numbers back. So I am going to keep working the throttle up the switch back, and hope I rips when I get up there!!lol

 

[francois]

Hey Adam glad to here about someone else riding at low elev. Looks like there are more and more of us wiling to try a turbo 2 strokes at or close to sea level!

Keep us posted on your experience!

 

[Jonce]

For you guys with the Dobeck style box (Pure Logic or Attitude Industries), there is a neat interactive demo you can play with online to see what each mode does.

http://www.electronicjetkit.com/

On the bottom of the page, it will show a fuel curve on the left and the EJK (Electronic Jet Kit - Dobeck box) on the right. Mouse over the Mode and -/+ and watch the graph change. This will give you a visual of how each mode changes.

 

[Eli]

Here is the exact link. This demo is different than the demo of Attitudes...it shows exactly how even adjusting the blue/yellow and blue/red will affect the transition point. Very Cool!

http://www.electronicjetkit.com/EJKtuning.asp

 

[Jonce]

Thanks, I think I ran across a few of your posts from last season. If I didn't feel the seat of the pants difference (basically taking off like a rocket) when it switches modes/circuits at 6600-6700 rpms, then I wouldn't be as worried about it.

I expect some hurdles with any modification and I'm sure I will get it figured out. Every sled is different and there seems to be a different combo for every user with a turbo (i.e. flash update, elevation, fuel controller version, etc.)


Didn't mean to hijack the thread, sorry.

Update - Justin came down and uploaded a new fuel mapping for my Attitude fuel controller. She runs great, haven't touched the box in two rides (60 miles). Another good example of Silber's customer service. He also tuned in Super B's Dragon as well.

 

[tree climber]

guess i might have to ship my box to him when i get back from my trip. i hope it makes it through haha

 

[Jonce]

guess i might have to ship my box to him when i get back from my trip. i hope it makes it through haha

If you know what flash you have on your sled, he should be able to hook you up with a fuel mapping. You may want to email or call him to give him a heads up and see if he has an updated map for you. My friend has the exact same setup but has a different flash and his sled wasn't as nearly as lean as mine was in the mid range. Now, both of them are running good.

 

[RMK-King]

Possibly a mapping issue?

 

[KAWGRN]

I have been experiencing the same lean spot but no bog where the yellow overlaps the green and Have been playing with different powervalve springs,I think that it goes lean when the power valve opens,the latest greatest polaris up grades to the dragons use a really soft spring that I think opens to fast, I disconnected the hose from the solonoid valve and it got worse as the valve opend even faster so I put the 08 stiff spring back in and its getting better I will now try even stiffer springs and the solonoid hooked back up.The other thing Im trying is the air box temp sensor,I had mine mounted to the electronics cover. drilled a small hole for the thermister and put a screw in it ,,looked good, seemed lika natural spot next to the spare plug holder,, Wrong!! guess where the 175 degreeF voltage regulator is?????? LOL

 

[tree climber]

that was one of my questions lately i have been asking myself. i wonder if these turbos would benefit from a stiffer EV spring. i should have stocked up before my trip to try it instead of waiting for somebody else to be the guinea pig

 

[Jonce]

I have been experiencing the same lean spot where the yellow overlaps the green and Have been playing with different powervalve springs,I think that it goes lean when the power valve opens,the latest greatest polaris up grades to the dragons use a really soft spring that I think opens to fast, I disconnected the hose from the solonoid valve and it got worse as the valve opend even faster so I put the 08 stiff spring back in and its getting better I will now try even stiffer springs and the solonoid hooked back up.The other thing Im trying is the air box temp sensor,I had mine mounted to the electronics cover. drilled a small hole for the thermister and put a screw in it ,,looked good, seemed lika natural spot next to the spare plug holder,, Wrong!! guess where the 175 degreeF voltage regulator is?????? LOL

You make a good point about the airbox temp sensor. I wonder if mounting that sensor in a wide open area under the hood would be better?

When I installed my turbo kit, I unhooked the VES solenoid and capped all the lines. Justin came down and tuned my sled as I've stated. It was a lot better but still had a very slight spot that I couldn't get rid of. I decided to hook the VES solenoid lines back up (solenoid to VES valves) and it got rid of that very slight hiccup. I think you may be onto something KAWGRN with the exhaust springs.

Perhaps the older VES springs would work better from the 04 and 05 sleds?