Lead Acid or Lithium Snow bike Battery?

[coryf89]

Was your YTZ7S a Yuasa or a cheap ass brand. I've had pretty good luck with the Yuasa over the years but any other brand has turned out to be a POS generally

I went from a deeply discharged ag1201, then it was a brand name YTZ7S, then I went to a cheap o brand. all 3 of which gave me problems for a full winter.

I am now on a brand new ag1201 but kinda wishing I had went earthX now by the sounds of it. still havnt seen impressive CCA from earthX though. thats the number we want, right?

ag1201 = 360CCA

 

[Chadx]

Coryf89, issues with that many batteries makes me suspect there are other problems with your setup. You don't specify what issues you had, but if a battery is good and then you start to have issues, something is going on with your charging system, how much you draw, some type of parasitic draw when not running, etc.

Edit: disregard. I went back and read your previous comment that you had issues with heated grips and now upgraded your stator.

 

[willjay989]

I'm just in the process of assembling my 2018 YZ. Anyone have any experience with the stock Yamaha LI battery. I'm assuming it needs to be replaced with something else but I haven't picked anything out as yet. A YTZ7S should go in there if I cut the tray or maybe an EarthX or???????? Ideas

There garbage

 

[byeatts]

We install only One battery and have been flawless on 25 builds , The Anti Gravity 240 CCA peak is 360.Never a dead battery and turns bike over much faster than any other we have run.They dont crank engine slow initially like others do.

 

[Chadx]

We install only One battery and have been flawless on 25 builds , The Anti Gravity 240 CCA peak is 360.Never a dead battery and turns bike over much faster than any other we have run.They dont crank engine slow initially like others do.

Hiya Byeatts,
Which antigravity battery model are you talking about? I looked through their options and all the 360 cranking batteries a BIG. Over 5" in at least two dimensions. How are you fitting them in a bike? Or are they in bikes with stock big lead acid batteries rather than newer bikes with lithium? The only antigravity that looks like it would fit into a modern lithium battery motocross bike is the ATZ7 and it is 150 cranking amps (they don't list cold cranking amps).

To what specific model battery are you referring and in what bikes are you fitting those big 360 cranking amp batteries? Thanks!

 

[byeatts]

The 8 cell that is 240 CCA it has 360 burst,Same as stock size in a KTM . 170$ dont buy the cheaper one that has button for quick start, its 50$ cheaper but has half the CCA.

 

[Chadx]

The 8 cell that is 240 CCA it has 360 burst,Same as stock size in a KTM . 170$ dont buy the cheaper one that has button for quick start, its 50$ cheaper but has half the CCA.

Found it. The model is AG-801. It lists "cranking amps" as 240 like you mention. Will look for full specs when i get the time, but antigravity isn't forthcoming with "cold cranking amps", so having trouble finding that.

 

[byeatts]

This battery does not crank notably slower when cold ,Its been flawless and goes in every Juan of our builds

 

[coryf89]

interesting. ive got a brand new, fully charged ag1201 12 cell (360cca... the ag801s bigger, older brother that does steoids) that seemed to struggle to start my bike today at -3C in the shop. needed quite a few tries while hooked up to the tender and being at 100%. I did the "heat up" trick where you blip the e start and wait 30 seconds a few times.

eventually needed the xp-10 booster pack and even that didnt seem to really make a ton of difference, it worked though.

thoughts?

its a fresh 520 big bore, would that be that much harder to turn over?

 

[coryf89]

interesting. ive got a brand new, fully charged ag1201 (the ag801s bigger, older brother that does steoids) which is a 12 cell and 360CCA, even that seemed to struggle to start my bike today at -3C in the shop. needed quite a few tries while hooked up to the tender and being at 100%. I did the "heat up" trick where you blip the e start and wait 30 seconds a few times.

eventually needed the xp-10 booster pack and even that didnt seem to really make a ton of difference, it worked though.

thoughts?

its a fresh 520 big bore, would that be that much harder to turn over?

 

[dooman92]

interesting. ive got a brand new, fully charged ag1201 12 cell (360cca... the ag801s bigger, older brother that does steoids) that seemed to struggle to start my bike today at -3C in the shop. needed quite a few tries while hooked up to the tender and being at 100%. I did the "heat up" trick where you blip the e start and wait 30 seconds a few times.

eventually needed the xp-10 booster pack and even that didnt seem to really make a ton of difference, it worked though.

thoughts?

its a fresh 520 big bore, would that be that much harder to turn over?

Coryf89, do you have anyway of checking current draw on that starter while cranking? I do not know the spec but a dealer should. A high current draw results in a slower turning starter. It can be caused by shorted windings or worn armature bushings both of which result in a slower turning starter that takes more current to function while producing less torque to turn the engine over. Knowing that your starter meets current draw specs leaves connections, wire size and battery output in the trouble shooting sequence. Didn't you have starter/battery issues before the fresh 520? I know going from a 11.8 comp ratio piston to a 13.5 in my ktm did not change starter operation. It turned over the same.

Do you know what a voltage drop test for checking circuit resistance is? Checking resistance on both the positive and negative (ground) circuits would tell you if resistance in the circuit was your issue.

 

[M5-]

I ran my KTM 520 big bore for 2 seasons using a Yuasa YTZ7s before the motor finally blew up. The battery never failed me, the motor did but the battery was rock solid. Your problem is not your battery.

 

[HalfBrit]

If it were mine I'd do this. Just an Idea.

1. Jump from spare car battery straight to starter post and ground to engine. if = no start = bad starter component
2. Jump from spare car battery straight to starter post and ground to bike battery negative, if =no start = bad ground
3. Jump from spare car battery to bike battery positive post and ground to bike battery negative, jump across relay posts. if = yes start = bad relay or trigger power to relay.
4. Jump from spare car battery to bike battery positive post and ground to bike battery negative, jump across relay trigger terminal. if = yes start = bad trigger power to relay.

 

[byeatts]

Something we notice Every Lithium thats been sitting around dead either something draining it or for other reasons never fully recover to a full charge , They all are toast

 

[coryf89]

Coryf89, do you have anyway of checking current draw on that starter while cranking? I do not know the spec but a dealer should. A high current draw results in a slower turning starter. It can be caused by shorted windings or worn armature bushings both of which result in a slower turning starter that takes more current to function while producing less torque to turn the engine over. Knowing that your starter meets current draw specs leaves connections, wire size and battery output in the trouble shooting sequence. Didn't you have starter/battery issues before the fresh 520? I know going from a 11.8 comp ratio piston to a 13.5 in my ktm did not change starter operation. It turned over the same.

Do you know what a voltage drop test for checking circuit resistance is? Checking resistance on both the positive and negative (ground) circuits would tell you if resistance in the circuit was your issue.

ok, thats way above my head. I am very weak in the electrical department.

basically what youre saying is that it could very well be a worn starter? this is a 13 ktm 450sxf with nearly 100 hours. most of which are with the bb 520. I think KTM is known for having a junk starting system... even on the 19s they still havnt got it perfected.


went riding today.... -6 in the morning, bike was on the battery tender all night long and reading 100%, 13.1 or so volts (seems low) bike definitely took a few tries to start, needed the booster pack. let it idle a long time, fully warm up engine, loaded it up. bike never does produce 14.0 volts I dont think even when running. larger trailtech stator.

drove 30 mins to riding area with bike on open trailer, bike took a few tries to start but eventually started with no booster pack. but in the cold theres no way its starting on its own, never really has. always needed a boost, but when its warm you hardly need to touch the button.

there is nothing aftermarket to have a parasitic draw on my bike anymore and it says right in the anti gravity book that if the LI ION battery gets below 11.0 volts then its basically pooched forever.

 

[coryf89]

ive been looking into it and I think its a ktm thing im experiencing. Ive got a dead freewheel bearing in my starter assembly (78132025100 ). my mechanic even mentioned it when he rebuilt my motor last winter, 5 engine hours ago and said that bearing is on its way out.

so for anyone reading... sometimes it doesnt matter how strong your battery is if the starter or other components are weak and adding resistance.

seems like many KTM guys dont know that that bearing fails and causes starting issues.

heres the fix video:

 

[needpowder]

Punt that bike and buy a blue one. It’s clearly an electrical draw.

 

[needpowder]

Or spend all of the season chasing it

 

[coryf89]

went riding today. struggled to start in the morning but overall ran amazing!!

 

[dooman92]

ok, thats way above my head. I am very weak in the electrical department.

basically what youre saying is that it could very well be a worn starter? this is a 13 ktm 450sxf with nearly 100 hours. most of which are with the bb 520. I think KTM is known for having a junk starting system... even on the 19s they still havnt got it perfected.


went riding today.... -6 in the morning, bike was on the battery tender all night long and reading 100%, 13.1 or so volts (seems low) bike definitely took a few tries to start, needed the booster pack. let it idle a long time, fully warm up engine, loaded it up. bike never does produce 14.0 volts I dont think even when running. larger trailtech stator.

drove 30 mins to riding area with bike on open trailer, bike took a few tries to start but eventually started with no booster pack. but in the cold theres no way its starting on its own, never really has. always needed a boost, but when its warm you hardly need to touch the button.

there is nothing aftermarket to have a parasitic draw on my bike anymore and it says right in the anti gravity book that if the LI ION battery gets below 11.0 volts then its basically pooched forever.

If at some point you want to do those tests, current draw and voltage drop, I can walk you thru it, not difficult. For current draw you need a meter with an inductive pickup, generally a clamp type thing on top of meter, that reads dc amperage. Most multimeters with clamp on top will work for both tests. You only need a simple volt meter to do the voltage drop test.