Judging presidents on the gas tax issue ONLY!

[ruffryder]

So what do you guys think? Seems Obama is the only one that says temporarily reducing the federal gas tax will have little if any effect on prices. I tend to agree with him on THIS point.

Please keep it on the gas tax issue only (I know it will be hard).... I know how these pres topics go off into never never land....

 

[Mafesto]

Agree with Obama 100% on this one.

Hildabeast's "plan" is simple pandering, nothing more.

 

[winter brew]

I agree it's not a good idea. So you put in 20 gallons and save a whopping $3.60. Will anyone really feel the difference between a $73 and a $76.60 fillup?? To make up for the loss they increase the tax on oil company profits.....they will simply play with the numbers to show smaller profits and a year later the Dem's will raise OUR taxes to make up the difference.
How about they quit subsidizing the ethanol crap and eliminate a little needless spending and permanently reduce the federal gas tax?? And does the Pres really need a 747?? How about a nice sporty little Bombi or Lear that uses a fraction of the fuel?

 

[Dogmeat]

And Obama's plan isn't pandering?

Windfall taxes on a specific industries profits are the worst possible idea.

All that is going to do is drive even more domestic production overseas because it's effectivley making it even more expensive to produce oil here than it already is.

Remember what happened in the 70's when they did this same political stunt? All the majors moved the vast majority of their operations overseas ... and have only recently in the last 10 years returned.

I've said a a hundred times ... of all that profit they're making, a large chunk of that gets re-invested into their own business to develop new technologies, new fields, watsoever.

If anyone is "pandering" it's Obama, not the other two, and what's stupid is he's preaching the same horse **** out of Jimmy Carter's playbook from 1976 that has proven to be disasterous ...

 

[ruffryder]

And Obama's plan isn't pandering?

Windfall taxes on a specific industries profits are the worst possible idea.

All that is going to do is drive even more domestic production overseas because it's effectivley making it even more expensive to produce oil here than it already is.

Remember what happened in the 70's when they did this same political stunt? All the majors moved the vast majority of their operations overseas ... and have only recently in the last 10 years returned.

I've said a a hundred times ... of all that profit they're making, a large chunk of that gets re-invested into their own business to develop new technologies, new fields, watsoever.

If anyone is "pandering" it's Obama, not the other two, and what's stupid is he's preaching the same horse **** out of Jimmy Carter's playbook from 1976 that has proven to be disasterous ...

Dang, only three posts and away the thread goes.... Maybe I should of made a poll instead.

 

[Mafesto]

And Obama's plan isn't pandering?

Windfall taxes on a specific industries profits are the worst possible idea.

All that is going to do is drive even more domestic production overseas because it's effectivley making it even more expensive to produce oil here than it already is.

Remember what happened in the 70's when they did this same political stunt? All the majors moved the vast majority of their operations overseas ... and have only recently in the last 10 years returned.

I've said a a hundred times ... of all that profit they're making, a large chunk of that gets re-invested into their own business to develop new technologies, new fields, watsoever.

If anyone is "pandering" it's Obama, not the other two, and what's stupid is he's preaching the same horse **** out of Jimmy Carter's playbook from 1976 that has proven to be disasterous ...

You must be misinformed.
Windfall taxes on the oil companies is Hildabeast's plan!!!!

Furthermore, this will not help.
If 18 cents (or whatever the fed tax is) is taken off each gallon of gas,
and payed for by taxing the oil companies...........................
I hope you know where I'm going with this...........
Of course the oil companies will just increase prices even more to
compensate.
Then when her little "gas tax holiday" is over, that 18 cents gets added back
onto the gas & of course the oil companies will not lower their prices...........
So this tax break will cost us more. That's an absolute!

 

[Dogmeat]

You must be misinformed.
Windfall taxes on the oil companies is Hildabeast's plan!!!!

Furthermore, this will not help.
If 18 cents (or whatever the fed tax is) is taken off each gallon of gas,
and payed for by taxing the oil companies...........................
I hope you know where I'm going with this...........
Of course the oil companies will just increase prices even more to
compensate.
Then when her little "gas tax holiday" is over, that 18 cents gets added back
onto the gas & of course the oil companies will not lower their prices...........
So this tax break will cost us more. That's an absolute!

No, I'm not misinformed, Obama has been running ads saying that's what he wants to do for weeks now. I'm sure Hillary is all for the windfall profits tax as well as the 'gas tax holiday', but Obama is right when he says it's just pandering ..... however, this is EXACTLY what he's doing as well. That's what ANYONE who runs a campaign off the "We'll hang the oil companies bandwagon" is doing, and they'e been doing it for the last 40+ years.

Adding windfall profits taxes is an amazingly bad idea. I don't think the people who support this even understand what a "windfall" profit is ... It means the company is doing better than expected due to circumstances in the market, it doesn't mean they're jacking prices up and gouging people. A very large portion of that windfall profit is reinevested within the company itself, and it has to be to stay competitive.

I've said this a hundred times, I think it's ashtoning that the american oil companies are as competitive in the world markets as they are when you take into account that their competition are foreign nationalized oil companies that don't have anywhere near the costs the american operators do, I think it's a major tribute to good old fasioned american enginuity.

The people who are on the "blame the oil companies" bandwagon are socialists, pure and simple. They would LOVE to see a nationalized US oil and gas industry, because it would get them a hold on power in washington, and enable them to promote their agendas even further ... it's INCREDIBLY anti-capitalist to target a specific industry for doing well ... but when the target is so visible, such as oil companies and the blame at the pump can so easily be shifted to them, it's not hard to sway public opinion.

The point I'm trying to make is, this country was founded on capitalism and competition, and giving in to the emotional response of "gas prices are too high, hang the oil companies" and supporting political canidate who milk this for all it's worth is ultimatley one step further towards advancing a socialist agenda in the US, and to me that's against everything this country was built on ...

If gas prices are too high, buy a Honda.

 

[Mafesto]

So your saying Obama is right about Hildabeast's plan being nothing more than a ploy.

I agree with you.

 

[MARV1]

Exactly!

You must be misinformed.
Windfall taxes on the oil companies is Hildabeast's plan!!!!

Furthermore, this will not help.
If 18 cents (or whatever the fed tax is) is taken off each gallon of gas,
and payed for by taxing the oil companies...........................
I hope you know where I'm going with this...........
Of course the oil companies will just increase prices even more to
compensate.
Then when her little "gas tax holiday" is over, that 18 cents gets added back
onto the gas & of course the oil companies will not lower their prices...........
So this tax break will cost us more. That's an absolute!

That they will do once they are taxed more, the price of fuel won't drop. It is common sense.

 

[XC700116]

The point I'm trying to make is, this country was founded on capitalism and competition, and giving in to the emotional response of "gas prices are too high, hang the oil companies" and supporting political canidate who milk this for all it's worth is ultimatley one step further towards advancing a socialist agenda in the US, and to me that's against everything this country was built on ...

If gas prices are too high, buy a Honda.

I have to agree with dogmeat on this one. The only thing that will actually make a long term positive effect on gas prices is deregulation of the industry. This would allow more competition in all aspects of it and ultimately bring prices down in the long run as long as they aren't allowed to continually merge until total monopoly. (Volume to make up for margin ie: Walmart)

Heck many states have laws in place that force gas stations to not go below a minimum profit on thier gas prices. I know there were a bunch in MN that got busted on it a couple years ago when gas first hit $2.

Look at the Airline industry, it's a perfect example of what happens when too much regulation is in place and antitrust laws are ignored.

Either way the temporary gas tax cut would be nothing but pandering unless it was perminant and no other taxes were put into place to "make up for it".

 

[milehighassassin]

The point I'm trying to make is, this country was founded on capitalism and competition, and giving in to the emotional response of "gas prices are too high, hang the oil companies" and supporting political canidate who milk this for all it's worth is ultimatley one step further towards advancing a socialist agenda in the US, and to me that's against everything this country was built on ...

If gas prices are too high, buy a Honda.

Capitalism huh? What about the BILLIONS of dollars of government subsidization that oil companies get from the US Government? Is that part of capitalism?

 

[Dogmeat]

Capitalism huh? What about the BILLIONS of dollars of government subsidization that oil companies get from the US Government? Is that part of capitalism?

What about the BILLIONS of dollars the oil companies have effectivley been railroaded into paying for completley needless "environmental protection measures", taxes, you name it. The costs of operating in this country are enormous when compared to other places in the world, and that is why the majors moved the bulk of their operations and investments overseas.

Subsidies to oil companies are meant to give them incentive to produce domestically and employ domestically, invest in new technology, etc ... they're not "fat cat" tax breaks like everyone wants to believe.

Look what happened in the 70's ... they taxed windfall profits and added completley rediculous costs to an already expensive business to be in, and they left. I don't want to see that happen again personally.

If this wasn't an election year this would barley even be an issue.

People have been clamoring on and on and on and on and on and on about hanging the oil companies and gas prices being too high ever since I've been born, and this is no different.

Remember when $2.00 a gallon gas meant the end of the world and total economic colapse? The market adjusted. It will adjust again. It has to, since everything about the global economy is based on oil.

 

[Good to Go]

I'm so tired of all this....

Dogmeat nails it. You get two gold stars today bud..


Why are there so many simple minded people that think they can fix some big fantasy travisty by screwing some entity?? Quote Hillary "What I've proposed is that the oil companies pay the gas tax instead of consumers and drivers this summer".

What a friggin idiot. And every person out there that thinks that doesn't increase the cost you'll pay in the end, you deserve it. Un***gun' believable.

 

[Backcountry]

Honestly I think it would be the worst idea to reduce/suspend the gas tax. Why encourage additional consumption. Instead I would favor rewards for reducing usage or the use of alternative fuels.

Further I just think the whole system of supply v. demand driving the price is absolutely ludicris. Joe Q. American doesnt have any visibility of what the supply is beyond thier gas gauge. Couple that with an artificially controlled supply (OPEC production quotas)- how possibly can the consumer influence that?

My stance is Im finding other ways to offset the cost of higher fuel. Based on my monthly usage- the difference between $3/gal and $4/gal fuel is around $60/mo. So Im seeking out ways to reduce other expenditures to offset that.

 

[swampwater]

Honestly I think it would be the worst idea to reduce/suspend the gas tax. Why encourage additional consumption. Instead I would favor rewards for reducing usage or the use of alternative fuels.

Further I just think the whole system of supply v. demand driving the price is absolutely ludicris. Joe Q. American doesnt have any visibility of what the supply is beyond thier gas gauge. Couple that with an artificially controlled supply (OPEC production quotas)- how possibly can the consumer influence that?

My stance is Im finding other ways to offset the cost of higher fuel. Based on my monthly usage- the difference between $3/gal and $4/gal fuel is around $60/mo. So Im seeking out ways to reduce other expenditures to offset that.

The only stand a candidate could have that would make any sense is to open up drilling and more refineries, anything else is pure rhetoric and don't expect it from the current group unless Macain will change his position after getting elected. I can't believe people still stay on the alternative fuel bandwagon when it is clear it uses more fossil fuels and harms the enviornment to get it to the pump than petroleum. Supply and demand is totally in control of the price and if you want as a consumer to influence that get your arse in gear and work to find honest candidates who understand the cause of the problem and help get them into office, you could have had Fred Thompson but I guess not enough voters took the time to underestand his positions on this issue. Swampy

 

[weetee]

Capitalism huh? What about the BILLIONS of dollars of government subsidization that oil companies get from the US Government? Is that part of capitalism?

I know we've had this discussion before. Oil companies DO pay ALLOT of taxes. http://seekingalpha.com/article/63131-exxon-s-2007-tax-bill-30-billion

 

[milehighassassin]

and they should pay LOT of taxes. They make more money than any other company in the United States.


I also do feel that they oil companies should have to take measure to protect the environment. If we let them regulate themselves there will be no regulation and the bottom line is all that will matter. Oil drilling is required but it is not by any means environmentally friendly.

My point is that when your oil companies are ranking all in the top 10 (with them claiming spots 1-5) on the most profitable companies in the United States, we should not be subsidizing them.

Dogmeat... you missed my point. You were talking capitalism up and I simply asked if subsidization was part of capitalism.

 

[Snow Fox]

What confuses me is the fact that the Iraq war was supposed to be funded by Iraq oil. What happened to that novel idea? It is us, American taxpayers that are funding the war. The US needs to tell these desert waste countries that this is what we will be paying for oil, if you don't like it then to bad and we'll pull out and Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait can be part of Iran, Turkey, Syria or whatever else radical government wants to take them over. Iraq with Saddam was in a way a good thing. It kept countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (even Iran) in check and they wanted the US protection. Now they just stick there nose up at us and make us pay for their precious oil. I used to think that the price of oil is based on supply and demand. That is the way it is supposed to be, but in all reality it is not. Americans need to stand up and stop taking it up the a$$.

On another note........What worries me is more than just the price of fuel we pay at the pump. The states are already struggling with the high price of oil. Wyoming has had to cancel road projects because they cannot afford them. The cost of road work has increased so much, states are having a hard time affording the maintenance on the roads. As far as repaving and building new roads, states cannot afford any more projects. The high price we pay at the pump doesn't seem to be making much difference. When our roads are an absolute mess with pot holes that will swallow up a compact car...........is that going to make a difference with this mess?

To get rid of the gas tax for the summer is a very bad idea. That is how states are funded by the feds. If there is no tax for the states to repair the roads, then the roads will not get repaired.

 

[Good to Go]

What confuses me is the fact that the Iraq war was supposed to be funded by Iraq oil. What happened to that novel idea? It is us, American taxpayers that are funding the war. The US needs to tell these desert waste countries that this is what we will be paying for oil, if you don't like it then to bad and we'll pull out and Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait can be part of Iran, Turkey, Syria or whatever else radical government wants to take them over. Iraq with Saddam was in a way a good thing. It kept countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (even Iran) in check and they wanted the US protection. Now they just stick there nose up at us and make us pay for their precious oil. I used to think that the price of oil is based on supply and demand. That is the way it is supposed to be, but in all reality it is not. Americans need to stand up and stop taking it up the a$$.

On another note........What worries me is more than just the price of fuel we pay at the pump. The states are already struggling with the high price of oil. Wyoming has had to cancel road projects because they cannot afford them. The cost of road work has increased so much, states are having a hard time affording the maintenance on the roads. As far as repaving and building new roads, states cannot afford any more projects. The high price we pay at the pump doesn't seem to be making much difference. When our roads are an absolute mess with pot holes that will swallow up a compact car...........is that going to make a difference with this mess?

To get rid of the gas tax for the summer is a very bad idea. That is how states are funded by the feds. If there is no tax for the states to repair the roads, then the roads will not get repaired.

Using their oil (Iraq's) was never the plan. It's not a novel idea either. It's short sighted. So let's see, we free a country, try to prop it up so it can start to take care of itself, and suck off it's primary product that can support its economy?? Good plan

And it is about supply and demand. There's just more to it than the 'product'. Value of the dollar has a huge part of it.

So why is it, that peeps want to blame, point, scream how screwed they are without looking at what we (the US) have brought upon ourselves?? Didn't momma tell you, one can't have their cake and eat it too?? We are NOT self sufficient because we have chosen to not be...for all the reasons in the world, it's still been your choice. We voted (or didn't vote at all) people in that made decisions that have led us here. Over and over and over...

Cry me a river... blame, blame blame, whine, point, shout. Give me a friggin break.

 

[ruffryder]

Cry me a river... blame, blame blame, whine, point, shout. Give me a friggin break.

You fall in the concrete this morning?