Jones Pass Snowcat skiing
- Thread starter Tec
- Start date
Brian, give me a call when the snow hits, I'll show you around. (we went rock dodging up there today... NOT ready!!!!!
As for the skiing, the cat is a Joke @ Jones, it can only hit the flatter terrain, anything beyond that you have to hike (and watch us blow by with 2 people on the way to the divide on the turbo going 40 up the hill)
I don't predict they'll be in business long, Jami is a cool guy & I wish him no ill will, but there are too many douchebags on the snow now to respect the space of the cat & the speed that they are able to lap at is embarrassingly slow compared to what we get on a sled.
And like Iain said, it's kinda laughable to compare Jones to silverton. I love it & spend a lot of time there, but the comparisons end at the fact that the place tries to kill you as often as possible. The avy danger is about all we have in common.
As for the skiing, the cat is a Joke @ Jones, it can only hit the flatter terrain, anything beyond that you have to hike (and watch us blow by with 2 people on the way to the divide on the turbo going 40 up the hill)
I don't predict they'll be in business long, Jami is a cool guy & I wish him no ill will, but there are too many douchebags on the snow now to respect the space of the cat & the speed that they are able to lap at is embarrassingly slow compared to what we get on a sled.
And like Iain said, it's kinda laughable to compare Jones to silverton. I love it & spend a lot of time there, but the comparisons end at the fact that the place tries to kill you as often as possible. The avy danger is about all we have in common.
M
mannix
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Nope, not a 3k' 50d slope, just a bunch of ~37 degree basins perfectly poised for windloading with no safe places below them.
Exaggeration, but everywhere you look, there's something scary.
Rode both days this weekend, super-limited today, kinda wiped myself yesterday. Fun to get out, but yeah, more snow is certainly welcome at this point - was following thatguy (I suck at names, green HCR) around, he kept exposing Things That Are Not White ahead of me.
I'll be interested to see how the catop does. I vowed to buy my sled after a bad experience with another catop here in CO; long story short, they thought it funny to leave two sled-skiers out for the night - a damned cold one at that. I "get" their beef, they don't like the sled-skiers tracking up the stuff that their customers (us, me, in that case) pay for, but not liking what they're doing is a far cry from "bet it is going to be a cold night!"
douchebags. The guests ganged up on them, we all thought that was ridiculous, but they were gone by the time we got back. That (05 or so) was the point at which I decided I needed a sled to ski - watching those guys, well, yeah, there's a $5-10k investment (more if you want....), but, well, sleds are better.
Having a prepared trail at Jones? Ehh, I'll take it. It'll certainly make getting around easier, just hope it does not get ugly from a conflict standpoint. It'll only get us 2/3 of the way up, but every little bit helps.
Iain
Iain
Exaggeration, but everywhere you look, there's something scary.
Rode both days this weekend, super-limited today, kinda wiped myself yesterday. Fun to get out, but yeah, more snow is certainly welcome at this point - was following thatguy (I suck at names, green HCR) around, he kept exposing Things That Are Not White ahead of me.
I'll be interested to see how the catop does. I vowed to buy my sled after a bad experience with another catop here in CO; long story short, they thought it funny to leave two sled-skiers out for the night - a damned cold one at that. I "get" their beef, they don't like the sled-skiers tracking up the stuff that their customers (us, me, in that case) pay for, but not liking what they're doing is a far cry from "bet it is going to be a cold night!"
douchebags. The guests ganged up on them, we all thought that was ridiculous, but they were gone by the time we got back. That (05 or so) was the point at which I decided I needed a sled to ski - watching those guys, well, yeah, there's a $5-10k investment (more if you want....), but, well, sleds are better.
Having a prepared trail at Jones? Ehh, I'll take it. It'll certainly make getting around easier, just hope it does not get ugly from a conflict standpoint. It'll only get us 2/3 of the way up, but every little bit helps.
Iain
Iain
wow this actually is surprising to me. jones seems way to small and not enough options for a CAT. hell i get bored up there boarding off the sleds. it's a fun place and close but not much for CAT skiing i wouldn't think.
the other thing that would concern me would be the sketchyness of some of that terrain. i've set off a slide up there before, scared the crap out of me.
be nice for keeping the trail nice and groomed tho!
good luck to them though i hope things work out for them!
the other thing that would concern me would be the sketchyness of some of that terrain. i've set off a slide up there before, scared the crap out of me.
be nice for keeping the trail nice and groomed tho!
good luck to them though i hope things work out for them!
$300 a day!!!!!
wtf????
http://www.powderaddiction.com/catskiing_rates.php
that's funny!!!!
so... they won't be around for long!
wtf????
http://www.powderaddiction.com/catskiing_rates.php
that's funny!!!!
so... they won't be around for long!
M
mannix
ACCOUNT CLOSED
I'll be interested to see how they do. Steamboat Powdercats is ~$400/day. The skiing is...better? More snow, certainly, terrain, well, it is good, mostly low angle trees that Steamboat is famous for. I like Jones' terrain better, although getting to most of it with a cat would be...challenging?
Comparing the two strictly on the _product_, Steamboat/Buff Pass is arguably worth well more than $100 more (not sure it is worth $400).
That said, for the frontstrangers, or those who live in the s4itty, as you like to refer to it
, while $300 is steep _for what it is_, it is cheap for _where_ it is.
Steamboat's $400 is really more like $500, by the time you get there, and that's a LONG day (on the road at...4am? 3:30, if it is snowing?).
Realistically, a day with Steamboat requires an overnight stay for frontrangers - between the overnight, dinner, breakfast & gas, call it $600.
So, if you're looking simply for a day of catskiing, it is not so bad, really, once the cost of everything else is factored in.
Ski Cooper/Chicago Ridge = $275.
Vail Powder Guides = $375.
so....ehh? For a daytripper, the price is pretty well in line. I've never skied Chicago Ridge, so I don't know about terrain. JP has good snow quality. Buff is better. Never ridden a cat at Vail, and I'm not likely to at $375, after having skied "their" runs last year - they're good, but not THAT good.
I'd rather save my pennies and go heliskiing at Wasatch Powderbird Guides. $910/day. Worth every freaking penny. Big vertical, way better snow than, oh, anywhere in Colorado, terrain is awesome, shrug, I've done the cat thing several times, helicopters a couple of times, and I'll not likely ride a cat again, unless someone else is paying for it.
And even then, I'll just be mad that the damned cat is so slow.
Iain
Comparing the two strictly on the _product_, Steamboat/Buff Pass is arguably worth well more than $100 more (not sure it is worth $400).
That said, for the frontstrangers, or those who live in the s4itty, as you like to refer to it
, while $300 is steep _for what it is_, it is cheap for _where_ it is. Steamboat's $400 is really more like $500, by the time you get there, and that's a LONG day (on the road at...4am? 3:30, if it is snowing?).
Realistically, a day with Steamboat requires an overnight stay for frontrangers - between the overnight, dinner, breakfast & gas, call it $600.
So, if you're looking simply for a day of catskiing, it is not so bad, really, once the cost of everything else is factored in.
Ski Cooper/Chicago Ridge = $275.
Vail Powder Guides = $375.
so....ehh? For a daytripper, the price is pretty well in line. I've never skied Chicago Ridge, so I don't know about terrain. JP has good snow quality. Buff is better. Never ridden a cat at Vail, and I'm not likely to at $375, after having skied "their" runs last year - they're good, but not THAT good.
I'd rather save my pennies and go heliskiing at Wasatch Powderbird Guides. $910/day. Worth every freaking penny. Big vertical, way better snow than, oh, anywhere in Colorado, terrain is awesome, shrug, I've done the cat thing several times, helicopters a couple of times, and I'll not likely ride a cat again, unless someone else is paying for it.
And even then, I'll just be mad that the damned cat is so slow
.Iain
M
mannix
ACCOUNT CLOSED
heh, but Jones' $300/day is from opening to 12/22, at which point it bumps to $350.
The gap narrows.....
They do have a neat "hot seat" gig, pay $100 to be put on a mailing list for open seats in the next few days - a gamble, yes, but each day would be $150.
So, 10 days of catskiing for $1600. That's not bad.
dunno. I like sleds, even if it is way more complicated than parking my *** in someone's snowcat.
Iain
The gap narrows.....
They do have a neat "hot seat" gig, pay $100 to be put on a mailing list for open seats in the next few days - a gamble, yes, but each day would be $150.
So, 10 days of catskiing for $1600. That's not bad.
dunno. I like sleds, even if it is way more complicated than parking my *** in someone's snowcat.
Iain
One of the biggest factors that I see in this is the development of sled skiing, 4 years ago when Bill was there, there wasn't a single access rider with a decent sled, now there are around 15-20, and most of them have good running long track 800's, also a few 1000's & turbos now)
Back then, we were happy to get to the cat's drop points, now we access the terrain about 800 feet above the cat, making it tougher & tougher for them to sell the fact that it's worth it to pay for the cat.
Today you can buy a 800 with a 151 for around 2k or less if you don't care about handling, so the reality is, it's just going to get worse.
Back then, we were happy to get to the cat's drop points, now we access the terrain about 800 feet above the cat, making it tougher & tougher for them to sell the fact that it's worth it to pay for the cat.
Today you can buy a 800 with a 151 for around 2k or less if you don't care about handling, so the reality is, it's just going to get worse.
I think theres issues w/ population at Jones as is..
Why do we never realize that over population is an issue...before its an issue?
Oh right, cuz there is $$$$ to be made...and apparently $ > * in these times.
Logic never seems to relate to $ grubbers.
I have no real beef w/ most the skiers/boarders I meet on Jones...hell, I've even helped some up from the lot (as annoyng as it may be).
But Jones is not meant to be a tourist trap ski area..IMO.
If the avy danger isn't bad enough as is...it WILL only get worse w/ a higher population.
Why do we never realize that over population is an issue...before its an issue?
Oh right, cuz there is $$$$ to be made...and apparently $ > * in these times.
Logic never seems to relate to $ grubbers.
I have no real beef w/ most the skiers/boarders I meet on Jones...hell, I've even helped some up from the lot (as annoyng as it may be).
But Jones is not meant to be a tourist trap ski area..IMO.
If the avy danger isn't bad enough as is...it WILL only get worse w/ a higher population.
wow $300 is steep to me for jones.
i use to ride that place quite a bit (sled and board) over the years i've moved off due to boredom up there i guess, that and the sketch for Avy's specially on that north east? bowl?
i'm sure it's even more populated now then years past. like backcountryislife is saying i feel the same way with vail. been boarding that area for almost 10 years. makes me sad to see how populated it is with the sled skiers and boarders now. but not just populated it's the fact that sled skiing and boarding is the new game everyone is getting into.
time to find myself some new areas out in the middle of no wheres land.
anyone ever road the red mountain area down to the north of Vail valley? any good boarding with decent access?
Rotax how they hell ya been? road ride yet?
i use to ride that place quite a bit (sled and board) over the years i've moved off due to boredom up there i guess, that and the sketch for Avy's specially on that north east? bowl?
i'm sure it's even more populated now then years past. like backcountryislife is saying i feel the same way with vail. been boarding that area for almost 10 years. makes me sad to see how populated it is with the sled skiers and boarders now. but not just populated it's the fact that sled skiing and boarding is the new game everyone is getting into.
time to find myself some new areas out in the middle of no wheres land.
anyone ever road the red mountain area down to the north of Vail valley? any good boarding with decent access?
Rotax how they hell ya been? road ride yet?
Snowcat skiing opperations just dont make any money. Trust me.... The main reason that they are around is so that ski areas can start the process of expanding... Or get use days in a area then put up a lift where they used to cat ski - move the cat skiing over a ridge and repeat.. A ski area can just break even or loose money on a cat op but it is going to be a hard deal for anyone who has to make a living off of it..
Other times someone already has a sweeeeet lodge way the hell back in somewhere and it is how they get there.. Does not sound like the Jones ski cat will be either. The bar is set high and with what the guys around Monarch, silverton, durango, and creede offer the competition is stiff...
$350 to 400 a day is what it will cost you to go out at most of these places.. I have been at sevral of these places all over the us and they can be super fun or they can make you wish that you had your sled..
I have never been to jones but it sure is getting its share of press on trg and the rest this year.
Other times someone already has a sweeeeet lodge way the hell back in somewhere and it is how they get there.. Does not sound like the Jones ski cat will be either. The bar is set high and with what the guys around Monarch, silverton, durango, and creede offer the competition is stiff...
$350 to 400 a day is what it will cost you to go out at most of these places.. I have been at sevral of these places all over the us and they can be super fun or they can make you wish that you had your sled..
I have never been to jones but it sure is getting its share of press on trg and the rest this year.
you guys are nuts
I would personally put Jones' Pass riding up there with any of the terrain within a three hour drive of Denver. This operation is going to be sick. For those of you who don't know, Jamie Wolter is the ex head of snow safety and avalanche patrol at Winter Park. He also ran Berthoud Powder Guides back in the day. I snowmobile ski up there all the time and think it will be beneficial for everyone to have a commercial operator up there who knows what they are doing. These guys have also recruited a crew of 20+ to go boot pack the avalanche prone areas. I don't see anyone on this message board volunteering to help make this place safer. This should help a little bit with the scary stuff. There is also plenty of terrain up there for all users.
I also just heard that Grand Adventures, the snowmobile company, has a permit to offer snowmobiling avalanche classes out of Winter Park. They are mainly doing it as a public service but the classes will be reasonably priced and will focus on avalanche classes catering to snowmobilers. For all of you die hard Jones Pass skiers and riders this could be useful.
I would personally put Jones' Pass riding up there with any of the terrain within a three hour drive of Denver. This operation is going to be sick. For those of you who don't know, Jamie Wolter is the ex head of snow safety and avalanche patrol at Winter Park. He also ran Berthoud Powder Guides back in the day. I snowmobile ski up there all the time and think it will be beneficial for everyone to have a commercial operator up there who knows what they are doing. These guys have also recruited a crew of 20+ to go boot pack the avalanche prone areas. I don't see anyone on this message board volunteering to help make this place safer. This should help a little bit with the scary stuff. There is also plenty of terrain up there for all users.
I also just heard that Grand Adventures, the snowmobile company, has a permit to offer snowmobiling avalanche classes out of Winter Park. They are mainly doing it as a public service but the classes will be reasonably priced and will focus on avalanche classes catering to snowmobilers. For all of you die hard Jones Pass skiers and riders this could be useful.
Best of luck to this new Cat Ski Op. If they plan to make any money I hope they own their equipment outright. No way you make a payment plus interest for 12 months and only get to generate revenue to cover your overhead for 4-5 months. Cats are also maintenance whores so I also hope they have 2 cats and a good mechanic. Otherwise there will be more than a few days they won't operate due to mechanical difficulties. Anyone know what brand of cat or cats they have? At least it sounds like the owner is used to not making any money since he was previously employed by winter park ski patrol. Like I said best of luck but I just don't foresee this Cat Op lasting more than a few years.
M
mannix
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I'm looking forward to it, truthfully, in a sense. I like the fact that JP is more challenging to get skiers around, but IMHO, the catop is not _really_ going to change that.
It will make moving skiers around easier, at least the bottom 2/3.
I just hope it does not turn into a nasty conflict. I wonder where they're going to store it.
It'll be interesting, no matter what.
Iain
It will make moving skiers around easier, at least the bottom 2/3.
I just hope it does not turn into a nasty conflict. I wonder where they're going to store it.
It'll be interesting, no matter what.
Iain
Does Jamie own Grand adventure snowmobile tour's in Grand lake and Winter Park, are does he have other people run them for him.
According to the paper, Grand Adventures is now owned by Melinda and Chip Besse. They purchased the business from Don Newman.
Here is the cat operation www.powderaddiction.com.
Some details about the cat http://www.powderaddiction.com/blog_view.php?id=2
Here is the cat operation www.powderaddiction.com.
Some details about the cat http://www.powderaddiction.com/blog_view.php?id=2
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tell you what, I'll go ahead & agree with you about the terrain, the problem is that the cat CAN'T GET TO IT!
This is what folks are missing here. You look at Jones & see what we ride & think, hey that's great terrain... but you can't ride it without a big hike. (or a big sled)
"I don't see anyone on this message board volunteering to help make this place safer"
If you sled ski up there ALL the time like you say, then you know me.
I am volunteering my whole day this Sunday to do a beacon practice day for between 30-50 people. No money, just doing it to make us all safer. You go ahead & boot-pack a bunch of windloaded slopes, see how far that gets you..
Be careful what you assume.
I'm not here to bash Jamie. He's a good guy & I wish him well, but I think this was a poorly planned move. I've been saying for years that I missed seeing Bill up there, but I think that a cat operation that is trying to pull that kind of $$ is likely to see some conflict & create a future issue up there.
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