They should shoot them from helicopters and seize all there assets and imprison their families. People riding across arbitrary lines on a map don't deserve to live.
ITS POACHING SEASON!!!
- Thread starter kosovojoe
- Start date
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newtrout
Well-known member
Yes, that's exactly what we're asking for. Excellent contribution to the subject.
It's really simple. Follow the rules for now. There aren't new rules that have been unfairly dropped on us. The boundaries have existed for decades. If we lose riding area in spite of the fact that we've been following the rules, then you can claim whatever usfs conspiracy you want.
If we lose riding areas because we can't stay in the boundaries, then we got exactly what we deserved.
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I know this is getting off topic, but i cant seem to connect the dots regarding your comments, statistics, or information...
i dont know where you pull your statistics from, but i cant locate any statistic that says out of all public land 45% is designated as wilderness - like you mentioned above.
This info (below) gives you an idea of PUBLIC land and how its divided. Since the Federal Government "owns" Wilderness, they're only saying upto 27% is considered FEDERAL (which takes into account all federal lands including Wilderness).
http://www.nrcm.org/documents/publiclandownership.pdf
(From the link: "This table is based on one produced in 1995 by National Wilderness Institute")
So, what you're considering as "public" may be misleading in and of itself.
if you have a link to substantiate your claim of 45% ill be glad to entertain the educational experience
Newtrout
"Yes, that's exactly what we're asking for. Excellent contribution to the subject."
So really you are for confiscating a $5000-20,000 snowmobile for riding in wilderness like the jackwaggon I responded too? Thanks brother, glad to have you on our side. Seemed a little over board. Maybe a ticket, $500 fine, hand slap would better match the "crime" to the "time".
"Yes, that's exactly what we're asking for. Excellent contribution to the subject."
So really you are for confiscating a $5000-20,000 snowmobile for riding in wilderness like the jackwaggon I responded too? Thanks brother, glad to have you on our side. Seemed a little over board. Maybe a ticket, $500 fine, hand slap would better match the "crime" to the "time".
Law breaking is just that it is wrong period ! Be it Illegal Imigrants crashing our boarders or Poaching some snow. What I don't understand is the desire for groups ( special interest groups ) to use the political process and or legal system to take away law abiding citizens rights to recreate. So we pay for in so many ways for law enforcement, be it State Patrol, National Forest Service, DNR Cops, County sherriffs, Fish and Wildlife Officers, National Park officers and don't forget the Money we pay for our Grooming programs I do beleive there is a budget for Enforcement we as Sledders pay for correct ? So if people are breaking laws write tickets to the small Minority of lawless trespassers.
This is a Law Enforcment issue for them to deal with. So if we all speed down a County road what happens ? does the County close the road ? No they come out write a few tickets people slow down. Same needs to happen where we Poach. Now for the Illegals you can't discuss this because it is politically incorrect to do anything about it due to the fact your State and Federal Reprentatives need to be re elected. Has not this world gone crazy ? Where is common sense, does it not exist any longer ?
This is a Law Enforcment issue for them to deal with. So if we all speed down a County road what happens ? does the County close the road ? No they come out write a few tickets people slow down. Same needs to happen where we Poach. Now for the Illegals you can't discuss this because it is politically incorrect to do anything about it due to the fact your State and Federal Reprentatives need to be re elected. Has not this world gone crazy ? Where is common sense, does it not exist any longer ?
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newtrout
Well-known member
Spencer, you are exactly right that at the heart if this is an enforcement problem. Not that it's an excuse to break the rules, just because you know you won't get caught. But poachers know there is zero chance of getting caught, except by other sledders.
Matt, nobody is proposing the confiscation of sleds. That penalty is already on the books of they choose to enforce it! And this problem, and our potential loss of riding areas would not be an issue with just a hint of enforcement. Hence, the need to self-police...
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Matt, nobody is proposing the confiscation of sleds. That penalty is already on the books of they choose to enforce it! And this problem, and our potential loss of riding areas would not be an issue with just a hint of enforcement. Hence, the need to self-police...
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The poachers I was referring to are the guys who keep riding into Jack Creek from Van Epps, who are the same guys that caused the problem in the first place. A slap on the hand won't make any difference to them and their actions are hurting the rest of us. BTW - I'm the "jackwaggon" who is planning to use legal processes to fight the closure, free of charge (I'm a lawyer). What are you planning to do to help keep it open, besides flapping your gums? How about you donate some of that turbo money to the WSSA legal defense fund instead of taking pot shots at the guys who are protecting your favorite riding areas?
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Powderboy
Well-known member
Liberals are taking over and ruining our country. Some are even snowmobilers. Get used to it. It starts in school and the liberal teachers take over your kids brains and then it escalates once they go to college. Motorized recreation on public lands will someday be a thing of the past. Get out and ride. Enjoy it while you can. At the rate this country is going the chances that your kids or grandkids will get to enjoy the same childhoods we all did looks bleak. For me its already happened. I grew up riding motorcycles out my backyard in Renton and all throughout Bull Frog flats (now Suncadia). All those area’s are gone. I can’t even ride my quad legally around my cabin in Easton and the list goes on and on. A little at a time the privileges and experience of living in this great country get a little less. All you guys fighting and posting pictures and threatening. Seems pretty juvenile honestly. Do you really think any of it works? Allow me to answer. I doubt it. I don’t ride in the wilderness. But I suspect those that do feel a little like I do. We are out gunned. Our privileges aren’t getting better so what’s the point? Live to ride and ride to live. Riding quads, motorcycles, snowmobiles isn’t a crime. But sadly it is. Slowly all you do gooders will lose your right to ride. Then you’ll either quit or join the criminals you currently loathe. Its only a matter of time.
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newtrout
Well-known member
I'm sorry that you think we're on opposite sides of this. I understand your point of view, and I know that a lot of people feel the same way; but all I care about is doing what I can to keep our riding areas open. That seems to be your concern, too. Seems like we both want the same thing?
A couple thoughts: riding in Suncadia didn't get taken away by liberals. It's private land. It got taken away because it got developed. I'm guessing that's the same case in your old riding area in Renton. As for riding your quad, this State is in the process of making it legal to ride them on some roads. Seems like a step in the right direction to me? And if they can be made street legal (also in the works?), then you can ride them on USFS roads, too. Not bad for a State driven by King County politics...
When it comes to snowmobiling, I realize we have lost riding area in other parts of the country, but the only thing we have lost around here is the Wild Sky Wilderness. That's it. And like I've said before, if we could just follow the boundaries around here that have been in place for the past 30-40 years, we wouldn't be in danger of losing the riding areas that are currently at risk. There are lots of things going on inside the USFS right now. We'll know soon enough what we're going to lose in this upcoming Forest Plan.
But you're right about this: if we lose our right to ride, then all bets are off.
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Powderboy
Well-known member
I’m not against you at all. Just stating the facts as I see them. There’s a large mechanized moment taking place in this country to eliminate the the things we love to do in our free time. Its big and powerful and has momentum. The most disappointing part? It's systemic from the beginning of the idealogical shaping of our children. What do you do about that? Beliefs are powerful. People die for them, wars are started, regimes are overthrown, and public lands are closed. All because of the power of beliefs.
Suncadia? Private land developed by liberals. The proof? Look no further than the rules for riding or even storing snowmobiles there. The quad initiative. Progress I suppose. But their making me spend needless money to add all the unnecessary hardware to make it street legal. So I have to retro fit them all with turn signals ect. I license them for heaven sake. Shouldn’t I be granted the privileged to ride them at least on the FS roads?
In the end I realize Im offering a contrarian opinion. All the tough talkers, pictures takers ect does nothing. Just causes more bitterness and resentment within our own group. All the while the organized moment to stop us continues. Well funded and organized. And I doubt they are taking pictures of each other and dropping the dime.
The whole Suncadia thing, though is a good example here, probably is a whole other thread. Private, yes=good but how it started and how it's "progressing"= not very good in my opinion. Moving lines, closing for earth rejuvenation, protecting grizzly habitat, protecting lynx habitat, grabbing land to restore natural blah blah blah for our children and grandchildren is just another way to gain some control of an area. Even though I think it's BS, it is Probably for reasons beyond me. Why does an individual or a business grab property? Usually it has some sort of value to it or a way to leverage it. But back to the boundary breakers. I don't agree with passing the boundaries. Can't say I've not done it in another area unknowingly. I've been disappointed about it everytime I think about since I found out.
Wapow just because I don't pound my chest on the internet and tell everyone how much I do to help keep areas open(money not time) doesn't mean I don't. No wonder you want to take "legal action" to go after these guys, you are a @$%@ lawyer! Have you tried a face to face conversation? BTW I have NEVER met a lawyer that I liked. Bloodsuckers or bottomfeeders all...
Easy there, Matte. My comment regarding pursuing legal action wasn't directed toward the Jack Creek poachers, but rather the Forest Service. If the FS formally recommends converting Scatter and Van Epps to Wilderness in their final Management Plan (which is very likely), there will only be two ways to prevent that from happening: (1) a legal challenge or (2) political opposition (only Congress can convert public land to Wilderness). We can't act take legal action until they release that plan (sometime this summer most likely), at which point I plan to donate my time and professional skills to attacking the basis for the wilderness recommendation. For the record, I spoke with the FS about this topic both face to face and via email before they came out with their initial Wilderness recommendation, as did Trout and many others, but it obviously didn't work.
And I tend to share your view about lawyers. Lots of a-holes in the trade. But I can assure you I'm neither a bloodsucker nor a bottom feeder. I am a business lawyer, doing mostly technology and biotech work. This will be my first time doing public land access litigation. It's not my idea of fun to learn a new area of law and spend my free time suing the FS, but it's worth it to help keep snomo access open to an area that means a lot to me and my friends. BTW - I think you posted previously on here that you are in sales. I've met a lot of sales guys who are coin operated douchebags, but I'll reserve my judgment about you until I've actually met you in person
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whiten
ACCOUNT CLOSED
Has anyone ever thought about going on the offensive for expansion? Sometimes taking an offensive position on an argument can either preserve the currently contested resource's boundary and in the best case open the argument for more of the resource.
Does that make sense?
Does that make sense?
I'm with whiten. Playing defense all the time is a loser. The greenies are relentless and are just going to chip away at us until ALL off road vehicles of any kind are illegal everywhere. The gun industry sat back and played defense for almost 40 years and gun rights just kept getting eroded. Someone finally got aggressive and took the second amendment to the Supreme Court with the Heller case. Now with the pro-gun Heller decision we are able to challenge a lot of state and local laws as being un-constitutional. Our side doesn't have billionaires and 100s of corporations run by liberals/greenies also so we are chronically under funded.
kosovojoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airpoppoff View Post
So you will commit assault to keep encroachment on the wilderness?
No. I would beat a thief's a$$ and hold them till the law arrived. Like I stated. I hate thieves.
If I catch up with a poacher up at Anderson or anywhere i ride. I will attempt to photo/video them and get their plate. If that individual became violent/hostile with me. I would do what I needed to do to protect myself from that.
After what happened to me with a drunk Lummi....i am fully prepared for a backcountry emergency, including ATTEMPTED assault.
So you self proclaimed you were a hippy in one post. Now your a redneck in another. Im confused...
Nice talking to you. Hope you will start picking up trash in town. Im going riding with my boy..
Its just like the wild west , some are outlaws and should be shot/ hung for not Obeying the laws and regulations that some power hungry ******* thinks we need to protect the snow from our tracks .. .. ****k it shoot me I don't give chit anymore...
You can ride the postage stamp they leave us to do circles in... I'l be on my iron horse committing crimes against the world ...
Meet me at my pinto and lets see how that goes down, Should be fun I love being assaulted and getting punched in the face for riding my sled, That's what this sport is all about Right??
Sound like allot of people like to be the rental cops of the USFS ..
Wake up people they are going to take all our riding areas soon enough .. because of people like Them(TAY) Not me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airpoppoff View Post
So you will commit assault to keep encroachment on the wilderness?
No. I would beat a thief's a$$ and hold them till the law arrived. Like I stated. I hate thieves.
If I catch up with a poacher up at Anderson or anywhere i ride. I will attempt to photo/video them and get their plate. If that individual became violent/hostile with me. I would do what I needed to do to protect myself from that.
After what happened to me with a drunk Lummi....i am fully prepared for a backcountry emergency, including ATTEMPTED assault.
So you self proclaimed you were a hippy in one post. Now your a redneck in another. Im confused...
Nice talking to you. Hope you will start picking up trash in town. Im going riding with my boy..
Its just like the wild west , some are outlaws and should be shot/ hung for not Obeying the laws and regulations that some power hungry ******* thinks we need to protect the snow from our tracks .. .. ****k it shoot me I don't give chit anymore...
You can ride the postage stamp they leave us to do circles in... I'l be on my iron horse committing crimes against the world ...
Meet me at my pinto and lets see how that goes down, Should be fun I love being assaulted and getting punched in the face for riding my sled, That's what this sport is all about Right??
Sound like allot of people like to be the rental cops of the USFS ..
Wake up people they are going to take all our riding areas soon enough .. because of people like Them(TAY) Not me...
Wow. I have been gone for a while. The snow was fun.
So...I'm not saying I'm gonna punch you for riding your sled. But i will shoot pics/video of you and turn you in if you break the law and i see you doing it. And if you touch me or demonstrate any form of violence, I'm gonna f*ck you up...period. (I have the right to defend myself.)
That's what i am saying. If you don't like it, don't ride in the wilderness.
"I'll be on my iron horse committing crimes against the world". Your horse has very little iron in it.
How are you going to ride the "iron horse" if they close all off trail riding and impose impound, fines, and/or jail time to you? What about when you come back to your tow rig and its not there because its impounded and sitting in a towing storage yard?
You gonna "live free and ride" outlaw style all the way back to town on your horse?I don't own skis or snowshoes. I am not part of TAY or any other groups other than SAWS, NWGC, WSSA, NRA and my local gun range. But I believe that we are at a focal point in the issue. Debating this further is dumb. Either help preserve what we have or watch it erode over time. The choice is yours....But the USFS does not have the $$ to police grown adults who are more than capable of policing themselves. Its up to us. If it can't be controlled, they will just shut it down.
I want to be able to stand up in a hearing and say we are trying. I would like to have a USFS that acknowledges that as well.
Again, better than doing nothing and allowing it to continue unchecked.
"because of people like Them(TAY) Not me..."
Wrong. That mentality is the problem.
Settle Down Frances
Its amusing to me how Badass people are from behind a keyboard ..You have know idea who anyone is, big talk from Mr badass .. with a GUN too ... Oooo Im in trouble now .. Look out every one kosovojoe has a gun /Fist and knows how to use them... and a Camera to so watch out .... ..AWW I want to give you a hug... Your cute all mad and stuff ..
U
Uller
Member
So...I'm not saying I'm gonna punch you for riding your sled. But i will shoot pics/video of you and turn you in if you break the law and i see you doing it. And if you touch me or demonstrate any form of violence, I'm gonna f*ck you up...period. (I have the right to defend myself.)
That's what i am saying. If you don't like it, don't ride in the wilderness.
So, you go to Yakima, piss on their roads, shoot up their stop signs, attempt to poach their Deer, while intoxicated and drinking someone else's beer. On the other hand, you document and turn in your fellow sledders and will shoot them or punch them in the face if they suggest you shouldn't.
You truly sound like a Hypocritical, Piece of **** man. Go **** Yourself with a piece of rusted barbed wire in your pee hole.
War of sleds....It is on!
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