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ITS POACHING SEASON!!!

Kind of off subject, but what happens if/when the forest service decides to close Van Epps and North Fork to us? Then later Lake Ann and Gallagher. Will you judge me as some criminal for riding up there? At some point you have to say enough is enough and stand up to unjust laws. Just because some unelected official decides on a rule doesn't make it just. Their ultimate goal is us out of the mountains, period, so why make it easier for them by complying. All this so a couple self righteous *******s a year can ski tour without the risk of possibly seeing one of us or hearing one of us.

Washington has the highest percentage of wilderness land out of any state in the lower 48. Fight for what's left.

The FS is proposing to close those areas because sledders have been using them to poach the wilderness. The skiers are only confirming what the FS already knows. The FS has sleds and they occasionally survey the boundaries, especially in spring. They also have planes. And the problem isn't new. I've personally spoken with the rangers about this issue over the past few years, as have others on this string. There's no conspiracy to get rid of sleds IMO. They simply don't want to deal with the hassle of enforcing the boundaries and will close areas adjacent to wilderness if sledders can't abide by the law. To me, it's unfair to punish us all for the violations of the few, and I plan to do what I can to oppose the wilderness designation for those areas, but it really hurts our cause to have folks continuing to poach.

If you see sledders poaching, let them know that they are jeopardizing everybody's access rights. How you do that is your business.
 
You could close everything up at Van Epps Gallagher down to the groomed Rd and people will still poach everything up there because there is no enforcement anywhere in this state. The only punishment is the state moves the boundries which is all they really want..

i totally agree that moving the boundary won't solve the problem. The guys who are ignoring the boundaries now won't care if they're moved. Some level of enforcement is obviously required. I think we'll eventually need to fund that enforcement through an increase in snowmobile tabs. It won't be popular, but it would be an effective way for the sledding community to take responsibility for its bad actors, and it offers a reasonable solution short of closing our best riding areas. Not saying that's the only answer, but Congress will ultimately decide this issue, and we'll need to show that there are better alternatives than what the FS is currently proposing.
 
Just to be clear, I 100% do not condone any riding in current wilderness areas. If you catch one of our own in there, confront them. Maybe they made a mistake and you can prevent them from doing it again.

While local FS rangers may not be hostile to us, I guarantee the people that write their checks and handle their promotions are much more sympathetic to the snow shoe and ski tour crowd. Sure, wilderness areas are not expanding like they once were, but instead new closures are coming about completely out of the legislative process. They will use the courts (via the EPA and endangered species act) and any other means necessary to get us out.

The fact is, there are a lot of angry, bitter people who live in big cities who think they know better than you on how to live your life. They don't like your truck, your sled, your bike, your god, and even what you eat. They won't be happy until you join them on public transportation, join REI, and take up snowshoeing.
 
Ride more, Bitch less.
:face-icon-small-dis

I'm gonna stay civil and respectful in my reply.:face-icon-small-hap
For those of you who know me also know how out character that is for me when faced with such a response.

Please stay in Yakima. I don't want to be grouped in with you and that mentality. Have fun riding groomed trail or snowshoeing over there after all your local areas get shut down.
I'm "Bitching" because I spend 100% of my winter in the 6 Northwest snoparks and about 50-60% of that exclusively at A/W. If you look at my photos you will see many of them are taken there. My son rides there, my friends ride there, many fine families ride there. I was dragging my kids 120 down into those lakes when he was 4! I taught him to sidehill there. He had his first face shot of supreme northwest ghacker there. I have watched him grow into a fine young man and sledneck there.
I don't want to lose what is special and dear to my family and other families because of people such as yourself who hold on to a "ride more/bitch less" mentality that got us to where we are in the first place...:face-icon-small-sho

I am trying to make a very loud statement that I want/hope will spread like an infectious disease through our community. Wilderness encroachments are ALL OF OUR RESPONSIBILITIES! From the presidents of WSSA and NWGC to my son...we are all responsible and directly control our own destiny/fate. Don't look the other way...Don't be silent! I sure as hell am not going to be anymore. Be it my friend or a complete stranger.

If I lose my riding areas at least I tried. Better than doing nothing and blaming others.
 
Washington has the highest percentage of wilderness land out of any state in the lower 48. Fight for what's left.

Well...sorta...
http://www.wilderness.net/NWPS/chartResults?chartType=AcreageByStateMost

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%"><TBODY><TR bgColor=#e2d8bd><TD class=textbold>State</TD><TD class=textbold>Acres</TD><TD class=textbold>Percent of Total Wilderness Acres</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%"><TBODY><TR bgColor=#faf9c9><TD class=text noWrap>Alaska</TD><TD class=text noWrap>57,425,992</TD><TD class=text>52%</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e2d8bd><TD class=text noWrap>California</TD><TD class=text noWrap>14,944,697</TD><TD class=text>14%</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#faf9c9><TD class=text noWrap>Idaho</TD><TD class=text noWrap>4,522,506</TD><TD class=text>4%</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e2d8bd><TD class=text noWrap>Arizona</TD><TD class=text noWrap>4,517,618</TD><TD class=text>4%</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#faf9c9><TD class=text noWrap>Washington</TD><TD class=text noWrap>4,463,093</TD><TD class=text>4%</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e2d8bd><TD class=text noWrap>Colorado</TD><TD class=text noWrap>3,699,235</TD><TD class=text>3%</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#faf9c9><TD class=text noWrap>Montana</TD><TD class=text noWrap>3,443,407</TD><TD class=text>3%</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e2d8bd><TD class=text noWrap>Nevada</TD><TD class=text noWrap>3,373,414</TD><TD class=text>3%</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#faf9c9><TD class=text noWrap>Wyoming</TD><TD class=text noWrap>3,111,232</TD><TD class=text>3%</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e2d8bd><TD class=text noWrap>Oregon</TD><TD class=text noWrap>2,476,115</TD><TD class=text>2%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
Please stay in Yakima. I don't want to be grouped in with you and that mentality. Have fun riding groomed trail or snowshoeing over there after all your local areas get shut down..

Yes sir!

I actually agree with everything you said (Besides not wanting to be grouped with me cause I'm a dirty hippy from Yakima), perhaps you misunderstood my internet language.

Do I ride in the Wilderness? No, but I ski it frequently (as others should).
Do I agree with anyone going into the Wilderness? No.
Will I say something to someone riding in the wilderness if caught? No, its like watching someone steal something from a convenience store, they know what they are doing, they know its wrong, and don't give two $hits that they are ruining it for others.

I'll stand up for anything I can do as an individual but when it comes to reporting and trying to get an "investigation" started only adds more fuel to the FS fire. Only thing I can do on my part for the poachers is pick up their empty beer cans (which our 3 man group managed to pick up about 10 pieces of trash in these proposed closure areas last weekend)


^^^^^^^^^ This is all an opinion, and all from a dirty hippy in Yakima.
 
So I haven't been sledding for very long, 4 seasons or so. I ride a LOT of different areas and as such I don't know the boundaries very well of some of the new places I ride. I ask my buddies all the time about wilderness and most of the time I don't get good answers. It sure would help if there were signs at the common points of "access" to the wilderness. You can say I should be looking online, Google Earth, using GPS etc and that is probably valid but I think there a many people like me that would respect a sign. Maybe a little caution tape or something just for a heads up. A/W is one spot where the access to the wilderness(that I know of) is a choke point on that steep hill above the lake. What I find interesting is that the wilderness areas I do know about NEVER have skiers in them. It is so far from the trail head they can't make it in and out in one day.
 
^^^^^^^^^ This is all an opinion, and all from a dirty hippy in Yakima.


Hippies Yakima? so far from any real hippy commune.. I think all you got in Yakima is migrant workers, their bosses and a bunch of stinky rednecks like Airpoppoff.. oh and a few respectable business owners..
 
Hippies Yakima? so far from any real hippy commune.. I think all you got in Yakima is migrant workers, their bosses and a bunch of stinky rednecks like Airpoppoff.. oh and a few respectable business owners..

TEAM F YA
 
Yes sir!

I actually agree with everything you said (Besides not wanting to be grouped with me cause I'm a dirty hippy from Yakima), perhaps you misunderstood my internet language. Probably, misunderstandings happen all the time. I'm sure there will be another one

Do I ride in the Wilderness? No, but I ski it frequently (as others should).I respect skiers way more than homoboarders. Started my love of the alpine back in the 70's skiing as a boy at Mt. Baker
Do I agree with anyone going into the Wilderness? No. You would contradict yourself with your actions stated below. You must be o.k. with it if you would turn a blind eye to it
Will I say something to someone riding in the wilderness if caught? No, its like watching someone steal something from a convenience store, they know what they are doing, they know its wrong, and don't give two $hits that they are ruining it for others. That is one of many reasons why prices go up. I'd beat the thief's a$$ and call the cops but I hate thiefs

I'll stand up for anything I can do as an individual but when it comes to reporting and trying to get an "investigation" started only adds more fuel to the FS fire. The only thing that adds fuel to the fire is doing nothing as a collective group and allowing it to happen. So if you see a kid getting dragged into a van are you going to look the other way?Only thing I can do on my part for the poachers is pick up their empty beer cans (which our 3 man group managed to pick up about 10 pieces of trash in these proposed closure areas last weekend) You should head down into town and practice those skills(see below):face-icon-small-hap

That's the problem with keyboard conversations. Its hard to differentiate between seriousness, cynicism, sarcasm, and/or humor sometimes.
Kind of off topic but I went to Yakima once back in 03 I think.
Rode with a buddy picking up a tunnel from Mike. I rode shotgun and drank beer the whole way....Pissed on the side of the road in your fine county and shot up a couple of road signs. I wanted to plug Bambie from the truck but Roasty Matt wouldn't let me. He was kind of being Captain bring down. I supposed that's because i was drinking all his beer. Anyhow..
No disrespect intended you dirty, stinky, skiing, hippie savage...heh heh::hippie:
but leaving 20 minutes later was not quick enough in my opinion.
What a dump! Tacos, Tarps, Tramps, and Trash.

Don't get me wrong. I like the 1st three above in moderation but..
Do you guys have trash service there?:face-icon-small-hap
Seriously, It looked like fawking Tijuana around there.

True story but thought I would add some humor to the discussion. Look man. If you turn a blind eye and let it happen and you are part of the problem too and i hope you stay the fawk over there. No disrespect intended here either.
You would turn a blind eye to wilderness encroachment and call yourself a hippie? Really? Wow. I have heard it all. Perhaps you misunderstood my internet language too.:face-icon-small-hap

With all your trash picking up and the beating of hookers. You must be exhausted! Get some sleep bro.
 
That is one of many reasons why prices go up. I'd beat the thief's a$$ and call the cops but I hate thiefs

With all your trash picking up and the beating of hookers. You must be exhausted! Get some sleep bro.

So you will commit assault to keep encroachment on the wilderness? Good for you. I guess our redneck in Yakima is much different than where you come from.

Its very apparent at this point your personal attacks on me so I'll just go ahead and call this one quits for you as neither of us are contributing to the thread at this point.
 
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So you will commit assault to keep encroachment on the wilderness?

No. I would beat a thief's a$$ and hold them till the law arrived. Like I stated. I hate thieves.

If I catch up with a poacher up at Anderson or anywhere i ride. I will attempt to photo/video them and get their plate. If that individual became violent/hostile with me. I would do what I needed to do to protect myself from that.
After what happened to me with a drunk Lummi....i am fully prepared for a backcountry emergency, including ATTEMPTED assault.

So you self proclaimed you were a hippy in one post. Now your a redneck in another. Im confused...

Nice talking to you. Hope you will start picking up trash in town. Im going riding with my boy..
 
No. I would beat a thief's a$$ and hold them till the law arrived. Like I stated. I hate thieves.

If I catch up with a poacher up at Anderson or anywhere i ride. I will attempt to photo/video them and get their plate. If that individual became violent/hostile with me. I would do what I needed to do to protect myself from that.
After what happened to me with a drunk Lummi....i am fully prepared for a backcountry emergency, including ATTEMPTED assault.

So you self proclaimed you were a hippy in one post. Now your a redneck in another. Im confused...

Nice talking to you. Hope you will start picking up trash in town. Im going riding with my boy..

goyou.gif
 
I'm not choosing sides as to who's right or wrong, but this is a perfect example of why we as a group can never organize to fight against the greenies, we can't agree on anything!
 
I'm not choosing sides as to who's right or wrong, but this is a perfect example of why we as a group can never organize to fight against the greenies, we can't agree on anything!

because opinions are like A$$holes. every bodies got one.

and face it, who wants to join the SHEEPLES?
 
Opinions are great, And I don't expect us to agree when it comes to Xm vs Pro, 880 vs 872, 146" 154" 163" 174", turbo vs BB, 15" vs 16", belt drive vs chain drive etc. But we should all be able to agree about losing or riding areas to a few people that won't even use it WHEN they get it. I've had a good run over the last twenty years and ridden some awesome places and met some great people, I'd hate for that to change, but if we don't do something It will. So in a few years if we're limited to trail riding, so be it, it's probably all I'll be able to do, but I do have a son that would like to ride some of the places I've been. JMO.
 
One of the biggest problems with this I see is that all the people that have been fighting for us for the last few decades are now getting too old to do so. Now if your not willing to step up and take their place. Then we probably will keep losing ground to the very well organized and funded tree huggers. I think this is something we all can agree on as it is not opinion but fact. Now since we all seem to have our own opinions on this never-ending issue. I propose we support the people that are fighting for us join WSSA join a club. You don't have to devote all your time to this. Believe me I'm not that guy I'd much rather be riding but their is strength in numbers and our numbers are substantial in the off-road world. So support WSSA , Blue Ribbon and anyone else that fights for us if we don't who will.
 
Mark the areas

One issue I have noticed is wilderness areas are never clearly marked. I personally have road on accident in wilderness areas (Mt. Baker), only to realize it later. If I did not have the tracking on my spot device I would have never known that I rode in the wilderness area besides looking at a map after the fact. Maps need to be clearly marked. Also people remember that people like myself make mistakes.
 
One issue I have noticed is wilderness areas are never clearly marked. I personally have road on accident in wilderness areas (Mt. Baker), only to realize it later. If I did not have the tracking on my spot device I would have never known that I rode in the wilderness area besides looking at a map after the fact. Maps need to be clearly marked. Also people remember that people like myself make mistakes.

If you're going to be riding near wilderness boundaries you have the responsibility to look at the wilderness map. It's really not that tough, especially with current GPS technology: https://www.wilderness.net/map.cfm

And, if you're riding around Salmon la Sac and the Teanaway, the boundaries couldn't be simpler. Everything north of the crest is off limits. There are even signs at the known poaching access points. Claiming ignorance doesn't cut it. Personally, I think it would be great if the FS started seizing the poacher's sleds. Bet it would shut that $hit right down.
 
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