ITS POACHING SEASON!!!

[kosovojoe]

So...Spring is here. So is wilderness incursion season evidently. Happens every year too. There is no fresh snow to cover your crimes and like the idiots that you are; you leave tracks that hang around for like 4 weeks. People see your lines and then they think its cool to ride there too. Which only adds more idiots to the problem.
Knock it off you selfish losers. Some of us want to keep the riding areas we have....
QUIT POACHING IN THE WATSON LAKES AREA!!! Its wilderness and you know it.
I see your tracks every mother f--king year too during this time. I know who you are and I'm over it.
I am taking photos and plate #'s and turning you in. I will also happily testify against you in court to send a message. The only way its going to stop is if we police ourselves.

Hmmm....Maybe I'll set up some of my game cameras.

 

[05900]

Here they'll confiscate everything..yeah and you'll pay and possible sentence..
$100k to sled for a day ain't worth it and to see some Ranger ride your sled next year..ouch.

 

[Wapow]

So...Spring is here. So is wilderness incursion season evidently. Happens every year too. There is no fresh snow to cover your crimes and like the idiots that you are; you leave tracks that hang around for like 4 weeks. People see your lines and then they think its cool to ride there too. Which only adds more idiots to the problem.
Knock it off you selfish losers. Some of us want to keep the riding areas we have....
QUIT POACHING IN THE WATSON LAKES AREA!!! Its wilderness and you know it.
I see your tracks every mother f--king year too during this time. I know who you are and I'm over it.
I am taking photos and plate #'s and turning you in. I will also happily testify against you in court to send a message. The only way its going to stop is if we police ourselves.

Hmmm....Maybe I'll set up some of my game cameras.

There was also a report today (on a backcountry skiing site) of sled tracks in the Jack Creek area, which is just west of Mt. Stuart, and deep in the wilderness. That area would only be accessible via the back bowls of Van Epps, which has been proposed for closure by the FS due to sled poaching. It's my favorite area to ride my sled, so if anybody knows who did the poaching please kick them in the nuts for me. Thanks in advance!

 

[diamonddave]

Post the pics of who they are. If you don't want to then email them to me and I will do it.

About 2-3 years ago, Fordman on BCR did this in the Washington section.

 

[n16ht5]

I think it would be a bad thing to report them, as it will only give the government more reasons to close surrounding areas. Did you leave them a nasty note on their truck? that might do more good

 

[Lushbomb]

I think it would be a bad thing to report them, as it will only give the government more reasons to close surrounding areas. Did you leave them a nasty note on their truck? that might do more good

somebody had to say it..

reporting it to the authorities, throwing it on other sites, etc.. only helps the cause for people trying to shut it down to snowmobiling..
unless you're one of them?

I do not offer an alternative method to keep people out, but publicly broadcasting it is a terrible idea in my opinion, which some will say ain't worth a sh*t.. but whatever..

maybe take matters in to your own hands and track these people down.. offer them a couple face punches... and let'em know..

 

[newtrout]

When poaching happens this time of year, it is well known by the skiing community and USFS. There's plenty of ski traffic this time of year, and sled tracks will be visible for a long time in the spring. There are no secrets up there.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with Lushbomb and n16ht5. A nasty note on a windshield isn't going to do a thing. The folks who are still poaching know what they are doing and they don't care. We are at a critical time for the future of the Teanaway/Salmon La Sac areas (sorry, not directly related to Watson/Anderson). The next stage of the Forest Plan is coming out soon. Every time this happens, it's another strike against us.

As far as I'm concerned, get photos, get plate numbers, let the whole community know who is putting our riding areas at risk. That's the only thing that will stop people like this. The USFS doesn't have the ability to enforce the boundaries, but we are still going to pay the price if we let it happen. Self-policing is our only option. It sucks, but that's where we are at.

Thanks for the post, Kosovojoe.

 

[Lushbomb]

all i'm saying is fuel to the fire isn't always the best idea in my opinion.. ski guys are all over this forum and a lot of them don't see what we see out there because they don't go that far.. so part of me thinks, "hmmm, there is a lot of righteous ski touring guys that have no idea, and never will because this zone or that zone is 20 miles from the snopark!"

again, just opinion, I would never police anyones freedom to speak up.. just sayin is all..

Teanaway/SLS is a big deal, if they closed these areas I would get in to ski touring just to tour out and deliver some face punches to those righteous skiers.. ok maybe not, but we'd all be very bummed.

 

[Lushbomb]

one more thing..

If you know who the perps are, then by all means post their plates, pictures of them, their vehicles, their sleds and inform us.. this in my opinion is fair game for sure!! and we can all take note and police those people as well.
BUT.. saying you saw tracks with nothing else to show, no pictures of the tracks in that area or anything else just becomes a hear-say situation.. then draws more attention that's not needed with out the proof.. so in reality you're not self policing anything but a thread on the internet that draws attention..

and I feel compelled to state again that's my opinion.. say what you will.. but I too am invested in areas that I hope never shut down..

 

[kosovojoe]

I wrote this post because I have nothing to hide. I don't poach wilderness and I don't feel protecting those who do with my silence will promote our sport positively.
I don't really care who reads it. Really. In fact, I want the hiker/skier community to know that we are all not silent accomplices. That some of us will be responsible and lead by example. If we don't police ourselves we are done.

 

[n16ht5]

I come from the hiker/skier crowd (my first year sledding, ski tourer for a while) and it's best not to give them any more ammo than they already have. Go on TAY and you will see them posting pics of tracks poaching.... Once you guys feel the burn like we have in the dirt bike community when trails get shut down you will get where I am coming from. There's a lot of dirt bike trails I won't even mention the names of on the net that are legal, but don't need the attention.

 

[n16ht5]

And its nothing to do with protecting them... Beat the tar out of them for all I care

 

[H20SKE]

I come from the hiker/skier crowd (my first year sledding, ski tourer for a while) and it's best not to give them any more ammo than they already have. Go on TAY and you will see them posting pics of tracks poaching.... Once you guys feel the burn like we have in the dirt bike community when trails get shut down you will get where I am coming from. There's a lot of dirt bike trails I won't even mention the names of on the net that are legal, but don't need the attention.

Point being---they have already seen the tracks and have their ammo---

It is time to show them we will not be silent anymore and that we are willing to call out our own that think the rules are not for them.
Newtrout is calling it right on!

 

[kosovojoe]

Lush, Trout, H2O....

I have a very good reason why I did not call them out. Their known affiliations would likely do more harm than good. I have talked to one of them about it last year to no avail obviously. The point is to put them on notice that they will be videoed next time and their plate # taken. Then I will turn them over to the USFS and NOT post on here their photos and affiliations because AGAIN...I believe it will do more harm for our sport than good at this point to identify them. Hopefully, they will treat this as a "wake up" call.
Also, n16ht5...I have been on TAY. I have read and seen the posts and photos. I am trying to show TAY and/or any other organization that there are those of us who care and will try to police ourselves by any means necessary in the spirit of cooperative, responsible, equatable, and LEGAL public land use.

I have tried to be the nice guy. I ride the area a lot and I wont be silent anymore. Photo or no photo.

 

[HUGHESMD500]

There was also a report today (on a backcountry skiing site) of sled tracks in the Jack Creek area, which is just west of Mt. Stuart, and deep in the wilderness. That area would only be accessible via the back bowls of Van Epps, which has been proposed for closure by the FS due to sled poaching. It's my favorite area to ride my sled, so if anybody knows who did the poaching please kick them in the nuts for me. Thanks in advance!

You could close everything up at Van Epps Gallagher down to the groomed Rd and people will still poach everything up there because there is no enforcement anywhere in this state. The only punishment is the state moves the boundries which is all they really want..

 

[HUGHESMD500]

Post the pics of who they are. If you don't want to then email them to me and I will do it.

About 2-3 years ago, Fordman on BCR did this in the Washington section.

This one ? It appears it didn't change any mind sets

http://backcountryrebels.com/showthread.php?t=15270 moo

 

[eddy]

Enforcement and Snitching

Self police through peer counseling is the only effective method. Even cops do not like snitches. Keep it between the people who know and those that should have better behavior.

We snowmobilers, as a group, need to set a good example and behave well everywhere, as most of where we ride is just a stroke of a pen away from closure.

Second point is how do you really know the accusations are true unless you have firsthand knowledge? It would not be out of character for wacko greenies to make stuff up?

 

[Carbon77]

Ride more, Bitch less.

 

[Cascades34]

Kind of off subject, but what happens if/when the forest service decides to close Van Epps and North Fork to us? Then later Lake Ann and Gallagher. Will you judge me as some criminal for riding up there? At some point you have to say enough is enough and stand up to unjust laws. Just because some unelected official decides on a rule doesn't make it just. Their ultimate goal is us out of the mountains, period, so why make it easier for them by complying. All this so a couple self righteous *******s a year can ski tour without the risk of possibly seeing one of us or hearing one of us.

Washington has the highest percentage of wilderness land out of any state in the lower 48. Fight for what's left.

 

[newtrout]

Kind of off subject, but what happens if/when the forest service decides to close Van Epps and North Fork to us? Then later Lake Ann and Gallagher. Will you judge me as some criminal for riding up there? At some point you have to say enough is enough and stand up to unjust laws. Just because some unelected official decides on a rule doesn't make it just. Their ultimate goal is us out of the mountains, period, so why make it easier for them by complying. All this so a couple self righteous *******s a year can ski tour without the risk of possibly seeing one of us or hearing one of us.

Washington has the highest percentage of wilderness land out of any state in the lower 48. Fight for what's left.

That argument would hold some water if we had actually lost anything in the Central Cascades. At this point we haven't (at least not since 1976). And in spite of the conspiracy theories about the USFS, they don't necessarily want to do anything with us. They want to take the path of least resistance. But we paint them into a corner by poaching.

Right now, the only real argument there is for adding Wilderness is to prevent snowmobile trespass (which we can all agree will do nothing to prevent poaching). Everytime the USFS gets another report of poaching, they have more pressure to do something. They don't have the manpower to patrol and enforce, so the path of least resistance is more Wilderness.

I don't disagree with most of what you're saying, with the exception of the statement that we shouldn't comply with current boundaries. For now, we need to do what we can to get everyone to comply. If we lose Scatter Creek and Van Epps anyway, you'll never hear another complaint from me. At least we can say we did what we could and they truly made an unjust decision. If sledders decide to poach now, especially while the forest plan is mid-process, then we are idiots and we got what we deserved.