Is there an Easier Pulling/Starting Mountain Sled

[mtncat600]

2017 m8000 hard to pull over. if i pull the handle right from
where it is its very hard. i have tried pulling the cord out
slowly about 1/3 of the way, at this point i put my foot
on the board and give it my best pull this has been working
way better for me now that i experimented.

 

[Old & slow]

I have been away for several days and it's good to see that there is still input coming in on this topic. I wonder how one could verify that the power valves do open for easier starting on the new 800 motor? I have rad all the snowmobile magazines about the engine but, either I wasn't looking for it or I missed reading about it.

The new C-Tec does open the exhaust valve when the engine is shut down, opposite of the Suzuki. Now how much that helps don't know? What I find works for me is, use a good synthetic oil with a low pour point and if it's colder out I cycle it slow 3-4 times before trying to start. You could add a turbo that makes it easier with the lower compression.

 

[Dan O]

I've been told the CTEC2 cat oil will help a lot with cold starts like this. My next jug will be that instead of the old APV cat oil.

I went to this on my 16 M8000 it does make a difference.

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

pull hard sleds

I feel for you Frostbite, I have an old m8 I leave at the cabin, after sitting for 10 months and -10 at christmas time, it almost too much for two quick pulls.

I do have an answer. a couple of years ago a bike rider stopped by my shop and asked if I would install a compression release on his 500 two stroke KTM he had lovingly restored and made into a dual sport bike. The rider weighted 140 lbe maybe and flat could not start that bike.

The kit he had in hand was for Harley twins........so they must be hard to start in cold weather also. I was skeptical because the hole drilled into the combustion chamber seemed to small to relieve any significant about of compression. Boy was I wrong. The bike started like a 100cc two stroke, right now, you could easily stroke it through by hand. It was setup so once the bike began to fire the valve closes due to the internal compression from firing. A little machine shop project to install, but wow what a difference.

 

[Big10inch]

None of you guys have started a Polaris lately? My Axys was 10 times easier to pull over than my Cat is, even with a brand new motor in it. It is honestly a huge difference. If those sleds would hold together more than one season I would buy another...

 

[favoritos]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the routing of the pull cord on the 8000 sleds. It is the same motor in the old M series and pre C-tec sleds. They are a lot different to pull start. Handle location is part of the issue. Halfway through the start pull with center location. Human body does have less leverage at full muscle extension. Getting close to that extension faster with center pull. Also, the routing of the cord has more resistance on the 8000. More rub points and it doesn't pull straight out of the recoil.
They have been using pulleys on the Poo sleds at rub points.

 

[XCaSSAULT]

None of you guys have started a Polaris lately? My Axys was 10 times easier to pull over than my Cat is, even with a brand new motor in it. It is honestly a huge difference. If those sleds would hold together more than one season I would buy another...

The poo’s are also running 120psi compression (at sea level)
with de-compression holes. When I had a poo 800 I plugged comp holes and my comp was 130ish. I thought it was a lot harder to start and almost regretted do it but throttle response had improved. My 15 m8000 is at a solid 150psi and much much harder to pull over. I like the pully idea and will likely explore further this summer

 

[Big10inch]

The poo’s are also running 120psi compression (at sea level)
with de-compression holes. When I had a poo 800 I plugged comp holes and my comp was 130ish. I thought it was a lot harder to start and almost regretted do it but throttle response had improved. My 15 m8000 is at a solid 150psi and much much harder to pull over. I like the pully idea and will likely explore further this summer

The question was... is there a mtn sled that is easier to start? The answer is YES, Polaris is easier to pull.


I understand that their motors are crap, I have owned several.

 

[kidwoo]

I've been pretty impressed with the 18 c-tec motors. My buddy laughed at me when I went to start his sled with Suzuki strength.

 

[bashaw77]

whats it cost to put an electric start on the M8000

 

[XCaSSAULT]

whats it cost to put an electric start on the M8000

$575 at country cat. Plus cost of different seat and gas tank unless u custom fab a spot for the battery somewhere else

 

[jim]

Ditch the high compression head for easier starting. Also, if you really want ease of starting, pour a cap full of gas in each cylinder in the morning to free stuff up. And you could always fog the motor when shutting it down. Depends how much hassle. As for strong rope that doesnt stretch...is well known thay any rope that sttetches (stock rope) will absorb energy...is what it is designed to do. A stiff rope like Cobra will put more energy into the pull. And there is electric start. The ultimate solution here.

 

[Big10inch]

Ditch the high compression head for easier starting. Also, if you really want ease of starting, pour a cap full of gas in each cylinder in the morning to free stuff up. And you could always fog the motor when shutting it down. Depends how much hassle.

Well since we are in the AC proclimb forum it would be a HUGE hassle to dump gas into the cylinders. Who is going to spend 30-40 minutes to try and prime their motor like that? I doubt it would even help. Just fogging it requires removing the hood, which is a lot more effort than just pulling harder on the rope...

 

[Frostbite]

I was re-reading the excellent answers provided in this thread. I will be ordering a Cobra starter rope and some CTech oil. I will also look for starter rope rub points and see if I can add small pulleys at those points. Thanks again guys. I am also curious about the Harley decompressor mentioned. How would one mount them?

 

[SRXSRULE]

this thread was a good read.

My vote is for pulling it over 2-3 times with the key off or kill switch on. Then turn it on and give it a normal pull or 2. It makes a big difference.

On a side note.... The old Yamaha V-max 4 with a 180* firing kit pulls over like a bitch! The first time someone trys to start those sleds they think the engine is locked up...And thats at 30* F

 

[Big10inch]

this thread was a good read.

My vote is for pulling it over 2-3 times with the key off or kill switch on. Then turn it on and give it a normal pull or 2. It makes a big difference.

On a side note.... The old Yamaha V-max 4 with a 180* firing kit pulls over like a bitch! The first time someone trys to start those sleds they think the engine is locked up...And thats at 30* F

Again, since we are in the Proclimb section... the sleds are fuel injected and even after sitting for months mine only takes 2-3 pulls to start. Pulling on it with the ignition off is just a waste of energy. I would not recommend that as making it any easier to start. You need the ignition on to energize the fuel pump and injectors.

 

[SRXSRULE]

Again, since we are in the Proclimb section... the sleds are fuel injected and even after sitting for months mine only takes 2-3 pulls to start. Pulling on it with the ignition off is just a waste of energy. I would not recommend that as making it any easier to start. You need the ignition on to energize the fuel pump and injectors.

Your missing the point.... If your in -30 to -40 F temps, and your sled sat outside overnight, your not "trying" to get it to start the first couple pulls. All your doing is getting things moving and loosened up. Then turn it on and start it with 2-3 pulls. It will start much easier, and also staying running easier. Its not a Proclimb thing, its and engine thing.

Give it a try sometime, it works very well.

 

[Big10inch]

Your missing the point.... If your in -30 to -40 F temps, and your sled sat outside overnight, your not "trying" to get it to start the first couple pulls. All your doing is getting things moving and loosened up. Then turn it on and start it with 2-3 pulls. It will start much easier, and also staying running easier. Its not a Proclimb thing, its and engine thing.

Give it a try sometime, it works very well.

I don't think you understand 2 stroke engines very well if you think your suggestion is helpful. There isn't any oiling going on, there isn't anything to "loosen up". The best thing for the cold engine it to get it started and get it warm asap. Pulling it over dry and cold isn't very good for it.


Fortunately I don't live where it gets -30 or -40 pretty much ever anymore. I used too, still wouldn't do what you suggest on ANY engine. Cold starts are the hardest on them. Besides you are still advocating pulling it over more than necessary as an easier way to start it? The fewer times you pull the rope the easier the start is right? Ignition on or off is the same amount of force required so the fewer pulls the better.

 

[Frostbite]

I went for a couple of the ways mentioned.

1. I ordered a couple gallons of C-tec2 oil from Country Cat.
2. I ordered a Cobra starter rope and will change it before the snow flies.
3. I will check the routing of the starter rope and add small pulleys anywhere it makes sense.

Thanks guys.

 

[Blueside]

+1 on the cobra cord. I've had a few of the factory AC cords snap and one dynamtied the whole recoil assembly. My Axys is way easier to pull over than my proclimb!
One other tip that hasn't been mentioned is I would unload the sled from the deck by rocking it down the ramp and then open one side cover and park the truck infront of it on high idle. Doesn't take long to warm up if you have a diesel. Just don't get it too close!

in the fire service we use the exhaust to thaw any frozen connections.