Is the economy turning?

[Ollie]

That is exactly what the govt is trying to do with the stimulus...

And this, just as with consumers, will fail.
You can't take care of debt by adding more debt.

It is the national debt that is killing us right now.
If we didn't have a debt, or were still tied to the gold standard (which the dems took us off of so they could deficit spend) we wouldn't be in this mess.

 

[Gainster]

And this, just as with consumers, will fail.
You can't take care of debt by adding more debt.

It is the national debt that is killing us right now.
If we didn't have a debt, or were still tied to the gold standard (which the dems took us off of so they could deficit spend) we wouldn't be in this mess.

Obama has it figured out
http://www.reason.com/news/show/133446.html

We can no longer afford to spend as if deficits do not matter and waste is not our problem," the president said last week. "We can no longer afford to leave the hard choices for the next budget, the next administration—or the next generation." I wish that Obama had some influence on the one who is setting the administration's fiscal policy

 

[PJ-Hunter]

Sorry Sledskiing, I hate to tell you this but nothing has changed. Economy is still in the tank and unemployment is still on the rise.

I live in a smaller town so we really did not feel it as hard as some of the bigger cities did.

I live in a very small town and we felt it HARD! Still feeling it with no end in sight.

well this will be the first full week of work for me since the end of nov.

I haven't a day's worth of work since then. I'm trying too, just nothing out there and what I do find I get told that I am overqualified.

 

[PJ-Hunter]

Obama has it figured out
http://www.reason.com/news/show/133446.html

We can no longer afford to spend as if deficits do not matter and waste is not our problem," the president said last week. "We can no longer afford to leave the hard choices for the next budget, the next administration—or the next generation." I wish that Obama had some influence on the one who is setting the administration's fiscal policy

Meanwhile his wife is doing "volunteer" work serving soup to homeless folks while she is wearing clothes that cost more than my monthly mortgage.

 

[snowmobiler]

well i dought if anybody wants go to back in time to the old days and start the country over with no credit allowed.even the cavemen and cowboys had a line of creditbanks are picky now and only excellent credit people are getting credit.i just think it hit bottom and its time to start spending and get out of this hole.

 

[Fordman]

Wasn't TART started by Bush? I though he created that program? Anyways, there have been no bailouts, just loans. I see this as an opportunity for the country to keep some jobs / companies here, and make some money also.

I agree that our focus should be on Afghanistan... As far as the CEO and compensation.. there is a lot of you scratch my back and I will scratch yours. I would like to see some data on the amount of CEO's and other higher ups that are on boards of others.. I think it is a pretty connected system of people at the top. They seem to be impenetrable from a loss stand point, while the common man always gets screwed.
All the spending now is a drop in the bucket compared to the costs this country is going to face in the next 10 - 20 -30 years. We will be killed by health care costs and social security...

Obama is the only one that seems to take this issue seriously.... Like most recessions, you have to spend to get things going again.. happened the last time and happened this time too....

As far as the rest, all I know is that a monkey deregulating things is not the solution... like Enron, like financial derivatives...

Hoped for? nah, but kind of what I expected...... Plus it has only been what like 4 months. I will judge at the end, like in 7.5 years?

Here is a question. Do you think that the stories/information about the topics in the media ( and fox news ..lol.) show the complete complexity of the issue? I see a lot of black and white arguments and over simplifications being made for the sake of argument, but the world is not that simple. We have become a very interconnected society.. In studing dynamics, the more interconnected and reliant on the interconnections a system becomes, the more easily it is to take the whole system down. Just like our electrical grid....

I am still waiting for him to start heaviliy prosecuting businesses that hire illegals, versus only prosecuting the illegals themselves.

If you want to debate these issues, best start a new thread..

It's interesting that a guy who has never owned a house... been married...owned a business...etc... knows so much. Watching your P-MSNBC, Fox or CNBC does nothing to educate you... You opinions are predicated on watching what you see on TV... That is not real life. It's entertainment....if you can even call it that. It's not an "R" or "D" issue.

I love it when people like Ruffy talk about timing the bottom...LMFAO!!

Look at what the smart people are doing.. Who are they you ask? The ones that invest during a period of fear.

TART?? LMFAO again... Can you tell me what that stands for?... Thought so..

 

[Gainster]

Meanwhile his wife is doing "volunteer" work serving soup to homeless folks while she is wearing clothes that cost more than my monthly mortgage.

Sorry PJ http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090514/en_afp/lifestyleuspoliticsobama

Hate to say it but she aint Halle Berry

 

[ruffryder]

It's interesting that a guy who has never owned a house... been married...owned a business...etc... knows so much. Watching your P-MSNBC, Fox or CNBC does nothing to educate you... You opinions are predicated on watching what you see on TV... That is not real life. It's entertainment....if you can even call it that. It's not an "R" or "D" issue.

I love it when people like Ruffy talk about timing the bottom...LMFAO!!

Look at what the smart people are doing.. Who are they you ask? The ones that invest during a period of fear.

TART?? LMFAO again... Can you tell me what that stands for?... Thought so..

Why do you think I have never owned a house? Why do you think I know so little? Why do you think I own a tv? Like most of your comments, they all lack substance and offer no point of view, besides I am dumb..

Let me know when you get something new to say.. I will surely be interested.

Not trying to time the bottom, just hoping the bottom is when I buy. As that is the time frame I will be looking...

So what does your vast experience and knowledge tell you?

 

[Gainster]

It's interesting that a guy who has never owned a house... been married...owned a business...etc... knows so much. Watching your P-MSNBC, Fox or CNBC does nothing to educate you... You opinions are predicated on watching what you see on TV... That is not real life. It's entertainment....if you can even call it that. It's not an "R" or "D" issue.

I too fall into this, I try not but @ times I do & least I try to filter thru & make the best educated guess, If not I can always have a & forget about it

Joel Skousen’s World Affairs Brief

Critical analysis of current events is a complex process that is not systematized or rigid. All the information you see or gather is, generally, a combination of truth, half-truths, and error. Filtering out the truth begins with finding reliable sources, as well as critically scrutinizing sources that are known to have a specific bias.

Reliable Sources: No journalist or historian bases his writings on original material, except when relating what he or she personally experiences. This world is much too big with much too much going on for anyone to directly witness anything but a small fraction of life’s happenings. Thus, we all have to rely on sources of information. As all of my readers know, most of the world has become heavily reliant upon the establishment media. People are busy, with little time to study and analyze current events. So they scan the front page each day, or watch the TV evening news, relying on these easy, quick sound bites to "inform" them about the world.

 

[POLZIN]

The way I see it is the last time the nation was in this bad of finacial trouble this country was still a manufacturing powerhouse . this is not the case today .Today our economy is consumer based. I dont see how a comsumer based economy can last longterm in any case when you add in the inevitable inflation how cant it do anything but stiffle the economy even futher?

 

[Fordman]

So what does your vast experience and knowledge tell you?

It tells me a few things..mostly about you....

You have no experience in what you speak....

Watching 60 minutes does not make you an expert...

You still can't figure out the ratio between spending and inflation..

You have no idea what high interest rates does to an economy...

You don't have any kids...

You have never owned a house..

You have never been married...

You have never owned your own business...

You still are trying to figure out what "TART" is... that's priceless...

To sum it up, you don't know what you're talking about most of the time. Debating that fact with you is quite meaningless. You have to have a basic knowledge of simple things...without that, it's a waste of time.. You can see that from your responses.

Keep posting though... it helps the rest of us when we are deciding if we should spend more money on public schools or private ones...

 

[Gainster]

The way I see it is the last time the nation was in this bad of finacial trouble this country was still a manufacturing powerhouse . this is not the case today .Today our economy is consumer based. I dont see how a comsumer based economy can last longterm in any case when you add in the inevitable inflation how cant it do anything but stiffle the economy even futher?

True, Factory guys are telling me all the tooling is being sent to china. Lets hope europe does not need bailed out again anytime soon.

 

[ruffryder]

You still are trying to figure out what "TART" is... that's priceless...

Wow.. you got me grammar police.... my bad...

Should of been TARP. ha ha... Is this what upset you so much?

 

[Fordman]

Wow.. you got me grammar police.... my bad...

Should of been TARP. ha ha... Is this what upset you so much?

Grammar...? no.. that was you not understanding. Not mis-spelling.

"P" and "T" are far apart on the keyboard.


Continue to dodge my other observations..... Well all enjoy it.

Carry on.

 

[swampwater]

Ruffy: Hope your not a GM Bondholder, might take alot longer for you to afford your house. Swampy

Dear Friend:

On one side are General Motor's unionized retired workers. On the other, just about anyone who has a pension fund, retirement account, or mutual fund.

Who wins when the Obama Administration is the referee?

Here's a guess: it's not you and me.

If you're not aware of the current situation with General Motors bondholders, you need to be.

Unprecedented government intervention by the Obama Administration is resulting in the railroading of small investors, which likely includes you or someone you know.

Many mutual funds, 401(k) plans, pensions, and insurance companies contain some GM debt, and will lose up to 90% of its value if Obama's Auto Task Force has its way.

The Administration's Auto Task Force has ignored small bondholders, senior citizens, and (current and future) retirees in discussions over the solvency of General Motors. GM, with the Administration in the driver's seat, has offered small bondholders only cents on the dollar, which would impact millions of American's pensions, savings, college funds, and retirement accounts.

Bonds are loans, not speculative stocks, but the Administration is proposing that holders of GM debt will receive $0.10 on the dollar for their debt while the United Auto Workers (UAW) union and the Federal Government will receive 89% of the equity of the restructured General Motors.

"That’s outrageous," said Bloomberg Financial News yesterday. "The deal is nothing short of a political rip-off, with the Obama administration currying favor with an organized voting bloc in the form of the United Auto Workers union at the expense of unorganized retirees."

"The current deal 'can be seen as one that serves up bondholders on the altar of political self-interest,' CreditSights Inc. analyst Glenn Reynolds wrote in a report last week titled, in part, 'Waterboarding Bondholders,'" the article continued.

On April 30, a coalition of bondholders presented a counter-offer to the Administration’s Auto Task Force – an offer far better for all stakeholders involved. The counteroffer proposed that bondholders retain 58% of GM's ownership and the union-backed Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA) would retain 41% ownership – a higher stake for the union than what the Obama Administration proposed. In addition, the offer would save GM from bankruptcy.

By keeping GM solvent and privately owned, the offer saves U.S. taxpayers $10 billion and avoids nationalization by the Government.
But, as the Associated Press reports, "GM cannot modify its stock exchange offer to bondholders because the company has been told by the [U.S.] Treasury Department that it cannot go above 10 percent of the company's equity, [GM CEO Fritz] Henderson said."

What? Obama's Treasury Department is standing in the way of private parties forging an agreement? You got it.
"The government is intervening more and pressuring the rights of bondholders and other creditors," an article in Reuters recently pointed out.

Contact Congress now to let them know that this government interference is unacceptable, and that it's time for the White House to look out for the little guy instead of organized labor unions.

The 60 Plus Association, a national senior citizens advocacy organization, has organized the “Main Street Bondholders” project in order to galvanize support for retirees and other investors whose life savings will be adversely impacted by the restructuring deal currently being proposed. All GM debt holders should be treated equitably, and we are working to ensure that all bondholders receive a pro-rata share of whatever settlement that develops, proportional to other outstanding claims.

If you are a GM bondholder, click here to join our effort.

It’s only fair for small bondholders, who make up nearly a quarter of the auto company’s bondholders, to have a seat at the negotiating table to encourage this new, equitable for all, counter-offer proposals.

We are gathering small bondholders and supporters from across the country to help our cause. Whether you are a GM bondholder, directly or indirectly, everyone should be concerned about this issue. Contact Congress now to share your concern for America’s small bondholders, seniors, and retirees.

 

[snowmobiler]

" Americans are finally beginning to save more and spend less. That's great news, right? Not exactly. The article went on to explain how a nation of consumers tightening its purse-strings can actually prolong our current recession."

 

[ruffryder]

Grammar...? no.. that was you not understanding. Not mis-spelling.

"P" and "T" are far apart on the keyboard.

Actually no, I was correct... get with the trogram...

 

[Ollie]

The problem we have in this nation is simple.

We don't produce anything.
We are a nation of consumers that live in a nation founded on producers.
We made steel, cars, timber, textiles, clothing, etc. We exported most of it.
Now, steel comes from overseas, our timber industry has been desimated by the enviro's, we don't have a textile industry anymore, clothing comes from overseas and our auto industry is headed to china.

Everyone says we should spend money and buy stuff.
WHY?
Our economy crashed specifically because we can't continue to be consumers. We have to start producing stuff again. We have to rebuild our industrial base. Our entire economy is based on fluff and no substance.

We have to drill oil and natural gas while exploring new avenues of energy.
The dems say, NO DRILLING, we only want new technology.
They tell you to spend all your money and don't worry, mommy govenment will take care of you.

The republicans say, DRILL, DRILL, DRILL, to heck with new technology.
Save money for those rainy days.

we need to do BOTH. Start keeping the money and the jobs here.
We need to drop all the regulatory BS on textiles and timber and start making stuff here again.

You can't spend your way out of a recession. The economy and the country have to right themselves. As long as politicians on BOTH sides of the isle continue to pump up the economy it will NEVER correct and we will simply be prolonging the agony.

 

[H2SNOW]

And I was shocked to see the Ruffy still in business because he had the worst sales pitch I had ever heard in my life. He says, "You can take the donkey to the top of the rim, or you can take the tram. It is the same price." That would be my biggest secret if I were you, buddy. I'd be lying to people as soon as they got off the ship. "The donkey is $3.50. The tram is about 2800 Euro."

 

[ruffryder]

And I was shocked to see the Ruffy still in business because he had the worst sales pitch I had ever heard in my life. He says, "You can take the donkey to the top of the rim, or you can take the tram. It is the same price." That would be my biggest secret if I were you, buddy. I'd be lying to people as soon as they got off the ship. "The donkey is $3.50. The tram is about 2800 Euro."

I guess that is the difference between you and me.. I don't lie...

Dang.. were did that jab come from... I am slipping...