Is AVgas 100LL, ok to run in the Nytro engine?

[Einar74]

Hi

I am asking this because a friend of mine bought a Nytro with MPI stage 1 supercharger kit on it and it is set for 7-10000 ft and a 8-9 psi and used 91oct+ 1 gallon race gas to be safe.
Now the sled is in Iceland and will be used at 0-4000 ft. He would like to run the same boost and not have to change the pulleys.

I can buy Avgas 100LL,but isn´t the lead a big no no in these modern 4 strokes?
He can also get like 94 octane unleaded.

The former owner talked about some extra cooling he installed and radiator delete kit and that could have an effect on octane vs boost.

I have tried to ask Matt at MPi about this but I have not got any reply from him so am turning to the forum about this and maybe some overall setup question. I know most of you guys run in much higher elevation, but hopefully someone is running this setup at sea level and up.

thanks

 

[Octanee]

Honestly It's fine. It lubricates your valves and all that stuff. (the lead) but it does contribute to some more carbon build up in the cylinders of course. I know I was told back in the... I dont know 60's? when they transitioned from leaded to unleaded that many cars had huge engine problems and valves going bad from lack of lubrication since the fuel no longer helped.

But I've ran av gas in my sled and all sorts of stuff... Aside from the smell it does not hurt. Not to mention the price of it is near usually 91-94 pump gas. might be up 20C but race fuel is atleast double if not close to tripple that of pump gas....


However at lower elevation you will also make more power per # of boost so You really would not need to run as much boost. I'm not too sure... But watch your rpm with the boost You might find at say 6 or 7# your already at your peak rpm for power? (not sure what a nytro runs lol)

I know my apex since it does not auto compensate for boost & elevation. how its currently clutched in low elevation i'll over rev but at altitude I might have to turn my boost up 1-2# to get my rpm back up to where it needs to be

Also using av gas or any LEADED fuel in 4 strokes is a widely debated thing. Googling leaded fuels and 4 strokes should give you a lot to read about also

 

[up-high]

Ran 100ll in 310 Apex and 240 Nytros. Never had a problem. If its good enough for airplanes, it's good enough for sleds. However, I don't think its enough for the elevation you want to ride. Basically the same octane rating as 91 + a gallon of C12. If that was safe for 7000 to 10000 it won't be enough at 0 to 4000 feet. JMO

 

[Sledsniper]

Call Avid Products and ask Robbie what he thinks of AV gas.
He runs it in everything. He has some nice vehicles not to mention some pretty sweet sleds.


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[sledheadd]

I have run av gas up to 16 lbs of boost at 2000' but I do have a head shim.

 

[av8er]

You can run avgas 8-9 o lbs of boost safely at any elevation

m.o.n. rating of avgas is 99.5, it is the same stuff whether you buy it in N.dakota or norway.

 

[TRUEBLUEMAX]

Lead does not hurt four strokes. What it does hurt is catalytic converters which is why they got rid of it. Seeing as how we don't have emissions devices yet you would be fine running it.


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[Tarzannr1]

I have heard that the stock injectors in Nytro can be hurt by using 100LL.
Some people here in Norway that builds race engines do not recomend 100LL used in Nytro engines.
They say that there is some stuff in the 100LL that is not god for the engine and injectors.

 

[BigFish BC]

race gas has lead in it too,i have ran it befor & it will leave deposits in your motor as lead but motor still ran fine.as for long term use i know guys that ran it for years,but i chose to run a mix of race & prem now.

 

[snowmanx]

m.o.n. rating of avgas is 105, it is the same stuff whether you buy it in N.dakota or norway.

I was understood that the MON of AV gas to be 100. If 105 is true, then av gas would have a higher rating than racing fuel 110. If you look at that MON rating on 110 racing, it is 104.

With that being said, why can't you run straight AV gas in a sled that requires 110 racing fuel?


Not arguing that you are wrong, just would like to know what is right.

 

[wwillf01]

I buy Sunoco leaded fuel and it is rm of a true 114? Ll 100 is 100 rm true octane


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[motojunkie101]

I run 100LL in my Nytro at 9lbs of boost from 2500ft on up and have never had a single problem. If I feel like I need to do something stupid I run 110 and crank the boost to 15lbs.

Been doing that for four years with zero problems.

 

[av8er]

CORRECTION AVGAS MON IS 99.5

after I posted this i did some RESEARCH.

Bunch of info I scrounged up on Avgas. Just to get the facts out instead of everyone not knowing.

Heres some info from conoco phillips. Look down to the octane lean. That is the MON rating.

http://www.experimentalaircraft.info...vgas-specs.pdf



Additives - AO Antioxidants mg/gal 45.4

Additives - Conductivity Conductivity Improver 842

Additives - Dye Blue Dye mg/gal 10.2 805

Additives - General Note General Note 878

API Gravity (60 Deg F) D 4052 Density & Rel Dens API Report

Appearance D 4176 Wtr & Part Cont, Proc 1 Pass 841

Color, Visual D 2392 Color of Dyed Av Gas Blue

Copper Strip Corrosion D 130 Cu Str 2 Hr @ 212 F Rating 1b

Dist 10 Vol% Evap D 86 Dist at Atm Press Deg F 167

Dist 10%+50% Evap D 86 Dist at Atm Press Deg F 275

Dist 40 Vol% Evap D 86 Dist at Atm Press Deg F 167

Dist 50 Vol% Evap D 86 Dist at Atm Press Deg F 221

Dist 90 Vol% Evap D 86 Dist at Atm Press Deg F 275

Dist End Pt, corr D 86 Dist at Atm Press Deg F 338

Dist IBP, corr D 86 Dist at Atm Press Deg F Report

Dist Loss, corr D 86 Dist at Atm Press Vol% 1.5

Dist Recov, corr D 86 Dist at Atm Press Vol% 97

Dist Residue D 86 Dist at Atm Press Vol% 1.5

Freeze Pt D 2386 Freeze Pt by manual Deg C -58 808

Lead (Pb) D 5059 Lead by X-ray Spec gPb/gal 2.12

Lead as TEL eq D 5059 Lead by X-ray Spec ml TEL/gal 2.00

Net Heat of Combustion D 3338 Net Heat of Comb BTU/lb 18,720 835

Octane, Lean Number D 2700 Knock Charac by Motor 99.5

Octane, Performance No. D 909 Knock by Supercharge 130.0 809

Ox Stab, Lead Precip D 873 Ox Stab, 5 hrs aging mg/100ml 3 851

Ox Stab, Potential Gum D 873 Ox Stab, 5 hrs aging mg/100ml 6 851

Sulfur D 2622 S by X-ray Fluo Spec Wt% 0.05

Vapor Pressure (ASTM D 5191 VP Grabner (ASTM eq) psi 5.5 7.1

Water Rxn Vol Change D 1094 Water Rxn by manual ml + or - 2

P AVGAS 100LL

Specifications

British Def Stan 91-90

USA ASTM D910

Typical Properties

Knock rating

Lean mixture, aviation rating 105------------------ this is where I went wrong-------------------------------------------