Intercoolers Effiency

[Arctic Thunder]

Thunder that is NOT what I am saying. What I am saying is that companies such as Evolution Powersports have hundreds if not thousands of hours into building mapping and testing and building hard parts. What I am saying is if you want to ride rather than wrench and push buttons everyday on the mountain buy some Evolution.

Also remember that the 1100 is not for everyone. No different than the nytro.
I for one enjoy the reliability that I get from the 1100. I enjoy having a machine that works as well at 1000' then I load it in a trailer and haul it 1000 miles and unload at 8000 ft and it runs just like it does at the low elevation. The ecu is tuned to perfection just as advertised.

Hey, hats off of Evolution, they have really worked hard to take cat to the next level. But I feel with the help from other tuners and with continued hard work by Evolution they will get it perfect. It just will take some time. (but like snowmow said, just because you are into your sled for 20k and have every upgrade offered, don't close your eyes and tell everyone you have the best, someone out there will prove you wrong)

As for mapping and such, yep, Evolution has it pretty well dialed in. What I have found is those that want peak performance are the guys that aren't afraid to push a few buttons to get it perfect. I don't care if a sled runs great at sea level and also runs great at 10,000 ft without the rider having to touch a thing. I would rather it run like crap until I get it dialed at different elevations, temperatures and snow conditions, but I want to get the most from it. I don't care if it's safe and easy all the time. Granted that would be nice but again I am strictly after peak performance.

So I am again not going to bash Evo or anyone, (great job by the way) But lets not bury our heads in the sand and feel we are done with improvements.

After the guys with big money get it perfected, it will be impressive.

Thanks for the offer to ride, I have a few miles on a big chute kit with every option available (except the air to water IC) and I liked the smoothness, the bottom end grunt was impressive. Wasn't real impressed with the performance after 300'. Not bashing, looking for more.

And I know it's clutching, it's the track, it's blah blah blah.

No its simply charge temps. Figure that out without adding another 100lbs to an already heavy sled and without costing the consumer another grand, and you got it.

Thanks

Thunder

 

[HCM]

The happiest day of my life seeing the 1100 go down the road in the back of someone else's truck 20,000 invested 10,000 grand out of it money not very well spent.

 

[Snowmow]

The happiest day of my life seeing the 1100 go down the road in the back of someone else's truck 20,000 invested 10,000 grand out of it money not very well spent.

Man I can't stop laughing!!! I gotta know though ....... Was it all bad experiences that you had personally?

 

[Snowmow]

Man. What is it about these power houses that everyone despises!!! God I can't stop laughing. Maybe all this money spent and lost is what brought this country out of recession!!!

 

[Snowmow]

Er wait..... Are we still In a recession???

 

[JustBoostIt]

I know that none of the 30 plus kits I installed or sold were not still running the factory intake configuration. Thru the hood prefilter or the Evo vfl. I also never had anyone with stock turbo back exhaust.

Granted we can all agree Cat engineers didn't get it all right on the 1100. Does anyone honestly think that they would add weight and the cost of an ic if it didn't benefit performance in some way? They have had that motor in the z1 with great success on trail and lake, vertical ic thou, and that ic is roughly the same size. I can see budgets dictating not putting a better designed one on....but it wouldn't have one if it didn't benefit it. A bigger ic without the fan does not drop intake temps as much as the stocker with a fan. That I know, that's why Evo doesn't have a different ic in their catalog. I haven't personally tried no ic, and to my knowledge no one else has either. If that seemed like it would work then someone maybe has tried it.....and if it worked better without it there would be someone with an ic delete kit for sure.....but there's not. D&D, Speedwerx, Turbo Dynamics, Evo.... Lots of big name aftermarket right there. You would think guys drag racing 8 sec sleds would benefit from faster boost build up but I don't know any that have no ic there either.

As for wanting to have to tune to get absolute max performance....I think that boat doesn't have a whole bunch of people in it. A lot of 1100 owners are on one because they came from that land and are sick of it. If I'm wrong the majority of apex and nitro owners don't ride 180/240/280 MCX kits that there is no adjustment to do. Unless someone is in the caliber as a tuner that breaks code and has access to some of the tools and equipment those guys have there is no way a hobby guy is going to do it better. I'm not trying to insult anyone but when professionals do this for a living, and do it very well, and it takes them 6 months to dissect and modify something as complicated as the 1100 ecu is, the days of the garage hobby guy doing the same is over.

We all know WTA is the answer, every high end, more custom kit for Yami's have one in the kit. Not everyone needs one. Your riding will determine if you would benefit, and some have already found that out. Most will not. I have plenty of overjoyed customers with the turn key product they have. It's exactly what they want after years of pushing buttons.

AT I think you hit it on the head without knowing you did. None of us are burying our head in the sand thinking we are done making the 1100 better. To that point Evo has finished a WTA for it, that is the next step in performance. I also know from dealing with customers that way more people are concerned with drivetrain reliability than intake temps on 60 sec climbs. Not everyone, but most. You just want someone to measure stock with a fan (as that is the best choice short of a WTA) and tell you you are wrong or right, I get that. I'll see what I can do about data.

 

[JustBoostIt]

The happiest day of my life seeing the 1100 go down the road in the back of someone else's truck 20,000 invested 10,000 grand out of it money not very well spent.

I had 25k on top of stock to get my apex to where I wanted, sold it for 12k. Adding a WTA if I was concerned about charge temps is still way less than I built a similar powered Apex for, and it didn't ride or handle like the 1100. I also had 2 belts in 4 years I owned it lol. We all know how mod sleds end of. Lots of money badly spend, yet we keep doing it over and over and over.

 

[Evolution Powersports]

Has anyone put input and output pressure gauges on the stock intercooler?? Talking with OVS Travis told me they did. And seen a consistent 9psi drop from inlet to outlet. Sounds very restricted to me. Restriction causes heat. Needs a bigger intercooler and ideally water to air. With a 9 psi drop. You would be better off removing the intercooler and just running it without one. I bet charge temps drop.

The stock intercooler is very efficient for its size. Pressure drop is closer to .9psi, not 9 psi. Whatever you do, do NOT remove the intercooler.

 

[Evolution Powersports]

Hey, hats off of Evolution, they have really worked hard to take cat to the next level. But I feel with the help from other tuners and with continued hard work by Evolution they will get it perfect. It just will take some time. (but like snowmow said, just because you are into your sled for 20k and have every upgrade offered, don't close your eyes and tell everyone you have the best, someone out there will prove you wrong)

As for mapping and such, yep, Evolution has it pretty well dialed in. What I have found is those that want peak performance are the guys that aren't afraid to push a few buttons to get it perfect. I don't care if a sled runs great at sea level and also runs great at 10,000 ft without the rider having to touch a thing. I would rather it run like crap until I get it dialed at different elevations, temperatures and snow conditions, but I want to get the most from it. I don't care if it's safe and easy all the time. Granted that would be nice but again I am strictly after peak performance.

So I am again not going to bash Evo or anyone, (great job by the way) But lets not bury our heads in the sand and feel we are done with improvements.

After the guys with big money get it perfected, it will be impressive.

Thanks for the offer to ride, I have a few miles on a big chute kit with every option available (except the air to water IC) and I liked the smoothness, the bottom end grunt was impressive. Wasn't real impressed with the performance after 300'. Not bashing, looking for more.

And I know it's clutching, it's the track, it's blah blah blah.

No its simply charge temps. Figure that out without adding another 100lbs to an already heavy sled and without costing the consumer another grand, and you got it.

Thanks

Thunder

Our water to air is done and will be up on our website shortly. It will add 3lbs of weight, or zero weight if a guy is running our IC fan because the IC fan will be removed for the WTA installation. The reason for the low weight gain is that we use the water coming off of the rear heat exchanger, run it through another cooler, then through the WTA. This setup was tested all season last year and works outstanding. The installation in very easy. Price is $1299.00.

We will do a separate post with pictures later this week.

 

[Evolution Powersports]

Don't get the idea that I'm un happy with the big chute. It runs really well. I'm just always looking at ways that could improve a sled. It's summer time man. Gotta kill the time somehow! I had a 09 m8 with a ovs race gas tial kit on it. When I bought the kit from ovs I talked with Travis about the 1100's. He told me what they had found to be the ups and downs of the sled. The biggest down was the undersized intercooler.
All I'm getting at is maybe something as simple as a more efficient IC or even non IC could help some sleds out. Insted of going to the cost extreme of a air to water kit. Would like to see some of those thousands of test hours to disprove my thought.

We have some other stock intercooler enhancing products for the mountain guys that will be relatively inexpensive.

These will be released shortly.

 

[Turbo11T]

Justboostit and Evolution.

Thank You! These guys have the real knowledge.

I once had a friend tell me that my snowmobile was not a good investment. I then told him good thing I am smart enough to realize it is not an investment but a hobby that I enjoy greatly!

 

[HCM]

Just hope they run better than the ones I have seen in the video's because stock sleds sure make them look bad still have not seen one go up the monster Chute I have seen a couple stockers go up it or is it like the mystical Dragon no one got it on film. plane and simple they don't pull long enough to pull a long pull and lets put another 1,300 into it to make it maybe work hope the water to air works tried to get it last year to try it out but had to get the dyno results back to see, I could have tested it in one day and said yup it works or nope it does not would not have taken a year. and besides that Ac went back leaps and bounds in the wrong direction with the chassis handles like crap side hills poorly, the M was a much better platform loved cat for 18 years not any more pull your head out Ac and listen to the consumer when you build the next sled for a change.

 

[JustBoostIt]

It seems you have it all figured out, it is too hot after 300'. I would have just built my own WTA if I were you. I wouldn't need a dyno page to see if it worked. WTA benefits are well documented in every type of racing sport. Designing a product to deal with an issue on a one off basis, and turning that into a production piece you sell to customers, is completely two different things. I've done it in sled parts and other business ventures over the years. In this case doing testing with different maps was part of that. Do diligence is part of keeping a companies reputation intact. Nobody wants to spend good money on rushed to market product, and lots do that.

Three Thunderstruck guys loved the power on the ones they rode all last year. Julio hated the belt issue his had, as does anyone with the problem. All loved how it handled compared to the Yami's they were used to. That's the market Cat was after with the 1100. Unfortunately it doesn't handle better than a 2s. It's not for everyone, no sled is.

And just keep me in KSH's good books for thread topic I will add that TS and Slednecks got some film last winter on 1100s lol.

 

[Snowmow]

The stock intercooler is very efficient for its size. Pressure drop is closer to .9psi, not 9 psi. Whatever you do, do NOT remove the intercooler.

Is this at full boost? On a big or super chute turbo?

 

[Evolution Powersports]

Is this at full boost? On a big or super chute turbo?

Yes and either.

 

[Snowmow]

Yes and either.

Impressive

 

[stcatman]

interesting !!!

 

[Snowmow]

interesting !!!

That it is catman! That it is.

 

[madmax]

I did a lot of testing with temp probes in the intake an outlet of the stock intercooler on the 1100t in stock form, with the 215 reflash and with the 275 BC. Didnt see a lot of difference in temps between the 3 set ups. Temps after the turbo, but before the intercooler would climb to around 320 degrees F on a climb. After the intercooler 200-220 degrees. I would think the different compressor cover and wheel on the BC had something to do with the temps not being more than the stock turbo even though it was flowing more and making more boost.

 

[JustBoostIt]

I guess the ic is doing something then.....

Thanks for posting that Rich. Numbers that show what the ic does.

Just like why I put twins on the 5.9, more air flow = lower temps. Now that doesn't mean you can't heat soak anything if you keep it pinned long enough. Like I said before, I only have one guy that I discussed heat soak issues on the BC kit last year. Far more questions about drivetrain.