Intercoolers Effiency

[Turbo11T]

The limiting factor on the Big Chute last season was the stock intercoolers ability to cool the intake charge efficently due to several factors. One being that it was designed for a sled that should be moving 100+ mph ground speed when putting out that kind of hp forcing alot of air through the outside of the intercooler. On a climb such as shown above the ground speed is likely 30mph? Quite a difference. The second is the angle of the intercooler. If the stock intercooler was standing vertical it would be better.

Fast forward to now. . . Evolution Powersports had the new Water to Air system on a sled at haydays. This technology is very well suited on a sled and the method they chose to make it happen is very simple but very effective. Many advantages now that you can put the intercooler on the machine that should have been on it from the get go.

 

[Arctic Thunder]

The limiting factor on the Big Chute last season was the stock intercoolers ability to cool the intake charge efficently due to several factors. One being that it was designed for a sled that should be moving 100+ mph ground speed when putting out that kind of hp forcing alot of air through the outside of the intercooler. On a climb such as shown above the ground speed is likely 30mph? Quite a difference. The second is the angle of the intercooler. If the stock intercooler was standing vertical it would be better.

Fast forward to now. . . Evolution Powersports had the new Water to Air system on a sled at haydays. This technology is very well suited on a sled and the method they chose to make it happen is very simple but very effective. Many advantages how that you can put the intercooler on the machine that should have been on it from the get go.

This is kind of what I have seen. The charge temps just get out of hand on a long pull. Crazy that it does this so quickly on a 4 stroke compared to my twisted 2 stroke 1000. I can really pull it pretty hard without the charge tube temps seriously affecting performance.

Thanks for the informatoin.

Thunder

 

[Snowmow]

The limiting factor on the Big Chute last season was the stock intercoolers ability to cool the intake charge efficently due to several factors. One being that it was designed for a sled that should be moving 100+ mph ground speed when putting out that kind of hp forcing alot of air through the outside of the intercooler. On a climb such as shown above the ground speed is likely 30mph? Quite a difference. The second is the angle of the intercooler. If the stock intercooler was standing vertical it would be better.

Fast forward to now. . . Evolution Powersports had the new Water to Air system on a sled at haydays. This technology is very well suited on a sled and the method they chose to make it happen is very simple but very effective. Many advantages now that you can put the intercooler on the machine that should have been on it from the get go.

Has anyone put input and output pressure gauges on the stock intercooler?? Talking with OVS Travis told me they did. And seen a consistent 9psi drop from inlet to outlet. Sounds very restricted to me. Restriction causes heat. Needs a bigger intercooler and ideally water to air. With a 9 psi drop. You would be better off removing the intercooler and just running it without one. I bet charge temps drop.

 

[10003514]

The limiting factor on the Big Chute last season was the stock intercoolers ability to cool the intake charge efficently due to several factors. One being that it was designed for a sled that should be moving 100+ mph ground speed when putting out that kind of hp forcing alot of air through the outside of the intercooler. On a climb such as shown above the ground speed is likely 30mph? Quite a difference. The second is the angle of the intercooler. If the stock intercooler was standing vertical it would be better.

Fast forward to now. . . Evolution Powersports had the new Water to Air system on a sled at haydays. This technology is very well suited on a sled and the method they chose to make it happen is very simple but very effective. Many advantages now that you can put the intercooler on the machine that should have been on it from the get go.

Anymore info or pics of the new water to air system? Had some inconsistency last year with my BC kit due to getting to hot when riding slow speeds in the trees.

 

[ReaperMotorsports]

Heres a pic

 

[Turbo11T]

There are pictures of the new water to air setup from haydays on my Facebook page. I beleive it is 95% finished. I think they are planning on working on hose routing a bit more as well. Also I do not have the final pricing information.

Also the huge pressure drop across the stock intercooler is hard to beleive. If Evolution comes on tonight he will have the knowledge. Water to air is suppose to have extremely low pressure drop as well.

Here is the link to my Facebook page that has the water to air picture. Also like the page as well as Evolution Powersports page to keep up with the latest and greatest that Evolution has to offer.

https://www.facebook.com/Evolvedcustomsllc

 

[charlie99]

The limiting factor on the Big Chute last season was the stock intercoolers ability to cool the intake charge efficently due to several factors. One being that it was designed for a sled that should be moving 100+ mph ground speed when putting out that kind of hp forcing alot of air through the outside of the intercooler. On a climb such as shown above the ground speed is likely 30mph? Quite a difference. The second is the angle of the intercooler. If the stock intercooler was standing vertical it would be better.

Fast forward to now. . . Evolution Powersports had the new Water to Air system on a sled at haydays. This technology is very well suited on a sled and the method they chose to make it happen is very simple but very effective. Many advantages now that you can put the intercooler on the machine that should have been on it from the get go.

When will such intercooler setup be available to purchase

 

[Snowmow]

I'm not blowing smoke here. This was a actual test performed by ovs. It's not hard to believe is it. Everyone said that intercooler is almost to small in stock form. Let alone pushing twice the boost and another 100 HP.

 

[Turbo11T]

When will such intercooler setup be available to purchase

It was tested most of last winter so it should be available for sure by late fall. I will definitely post more information when it comes available to me.

 

[Snowmow]

I would really like some feedback on how the stock intercooler does on efficiency when running added boost

 

[JustBoostIt]

I don't think charge temps would drop without an intercooler. In testing the Evo fan drops temps up to 35 degrees. They built a bigger ic before and in testing it didn't show enough of a temp drop to warrant the cost, so they didnt produce it. Because of the orientation of the ic the bigger problem is lack of air flow, hence the fan kit. As far as efficiency of the stock cooler I'm sure it's adequate for stock boost, on trail sleds. At the speeds of a mountain rider it probably is not enough, let alone when you add more power. That is why Evo's basic mountain flash is 215hp. You can make more hp than that but it comes with a faster heat soak as the ic heats up quicker. Which leads to the BC turbo's with bigger compressors that can move more air. Jim I'm sure could give you more specifics as he has hundreds of dyno runs of tuning and data logging if you are looking for numbers. I just know from all the 1100 builds I've done and ridden what makes a difference and what doesn't at elevation.

I'm no engineer, but from what I've read on ic design in years past, if you make the ic more free flowing the cooling effect is reduced. So kind of a catch 22.

The production kit of the wta is being done as we speak. In the testing I was involved in last year it was around 35 deg cooler than the best average temp with the fan kit. Very effective as they tend to be if done correctly.

 

[Arctic Thunder]

I'm no engineer, but from what I've read on ic design in years past, if you make the ic more free flowing the cooling effect is reduced. So kind of a catch 22.

What I think happens here is if you restrict the flow the dwell time for the air in the IC is then longer so you have more heat transfer. So the discharge temps are a bit cooler because the charge air stays in the IC longer. But the backpressure caused by the restriction just increases the temperature of the charge air in the turbo again because you have slowed it down and the air spends more time in the hot turbo housing.

The only way to get the temps down is a more efficient IC, Water to air is better than air to air. And open up all restrictions so the air doesn't have the time to pick up the heat in the turbo, increase surface area of the IC to cool or run water to air.

I would like to see someone take the IC off, and also take off the intake and run a screen like the Twisted kits run. again eliminate as much restrictions as possible.

Example: get your wood stove nice and hot, lay your hand on it for 10 seconds, what do you have, a nice burn, now slap your hand on and off, in the fraction of a second you don't have a burn. It all comes down to dwell time.

One other thing that hurts these, now getting larger IC's, is the amount of air required to build boost, if your blowoff valve lifts and dumps its charge you are going to play hell getting it to pick back up again. So with the larger and larger IC's this is only going to get worse. Again another reason maybe, just maybe dumping the IC would be worth a shot.

How much of an issue is hot air? As the air gets hotter it isn't as dense so you lose the ability to build boost. And you run the risk of detonation. Run better fuel. I know these sleds are smart enough that when they see the spike in charge temps they start to cut timing to prevent detonation. Again another safety feature that they have built in to keep the lake racer safe. But if you want to push them to the limit you need to get around all the factory safety crap. Just like the old days, watch your gauges, run good fuel and pin it to win it.

Thunder

 

[Arctic Thunder]

Anyone ever seen a water cooled turbo housing? (Not just the bearing center but the actual HOUSING)

I could see a water cooled compressor housing, keep that housing cool and the charge temps will be cool.

Thunder

 

[Snowmow]

What I think happens here is if you restrict the flow the dwell time for the air in the IC is then longer so you have more heat transfer. So the discharge temps are a bit cooler because the charge air stays in the IC longer. But the backpressure caused by the restriction just increases the temperature of the charge air in the turbo again because you have slowed it down and the air spends more time in the hot turbo housing.

The only way to get the temps down is a more efficient IC, Water to air is better than air to air. And open up all restrictions so the air doesn't have the time to pick up the heat in the turbo, increase surface area of the IC to cool or run water to air.

I would like to see someone take the IC off, and also take off the intake and run a screen like the Twisted kits run. again eliminate as much restrictions as possible.

Example: get your wood stove nice and hot, lay your hand on it for 10 seconds, what do you have, a nice burn, now slap your hand on and off, in the fraction of a second you don't have a burn. It all comes down to dwell time.

One other thing that hurts these, now getting larger IC's, is the amount of air required to build boost, if your blowoff valve lifts and dumps its charge you are going to play hell getting it to pick back up again. So with the larger and larger IC's this is only going to get worse. Again another reason maybe, just maybe dumping the IC would be worth a shot.

How much of an issue is hot air? As the air gets hotter it isn't as dense so you lose the ability to build boost. And you run the risk of detonation. Run better fuel. I know these sleds are smart enough that when they see the spike in charge temps they start to cut timing to prevent detonation. Again another safety feature that they have built in to keep the lake racer safe. But if you want to push them to the limit you need to get around all the factory safety crap. Just like the old days, watch your gauges, run good fuel and pin it to win it.

Thunder

Now were getting somewhere. Your thoughts are my thoughts exactly!!!

 

[Turbo11T]

What I think happens here is if you restrict the flow the dwell time for the air in the IC is then longer so you have more heat transfer. So the discharge temps are a bit cooler because the charge air stays in the IC longer. But the backpressure caused by the restriction just increases the temperature of the charge air in the turbo again because you have slowed it down and the air spends more time in the hot turbo housing.

The only way to get the temps down is a more efficient IC, Water to air is better than air to air. And open up all restrictions so the air doesn't have the time to pick up the heat in the turbo, increase surface area of the IC to cool or run water to air.

I would like to see someone take the IC off, and also take off the intake and run a screen like the Twisted kits run. again eliminate as much restrictions as possible.

Example: get your wood stove nice and hot, lay your hand on it for 10 seconds, what do you have, a nice burn, now slap your hand on and off, in the fraction of a second you don't have a burn. It all comes down to dwell time.

One other thing that hurts these, now getting larger IC's, is the amount of air required to build boost, if your blowoff valve lifts and dumps its charge you are going to play hell getting it to pick back up again. So with the larger and larger IC's this is only going to get worse. Again another reason maybe, just maybe dumping the IC would be worth a shot.

How much of an issue is hot air? As the air gets hotter it isn't as dense so you lose the ability to build boost. And you run the risk of detonation. Run better fuel. I know these sleds are smart enough that when they see the spike in charge temps they start to cut timing to prevent detonation. Again another safety feature that they have built in to keep the lake racer safe. But if you want to push them to the limit you need to get around all the factory safety crap. Just like the old days, watch your gauges, run good fuel and pin it to win it.

Thunder

Anyone ever seen a water cooled turbo housing? (Not just the bearing center but the actual HOUSING)

I could see a water cooled compressor housing, keep that housing cool and the charge temps will be cool.

Thunder

The act of compressing the air is what creates the heat not heat transfer from the compressor housing to the intake air.

Bottom line is that the stock intercooler is going to run Cold(80 degrees) to the end of a long pull 230+ degrees
The water to air is going to run cold(100 degrees) to the end of a long pull(less than 180 degrees).

That gives consistancy. Clutching needs consistancy. So when at the end of the long pull you back out of the throttle and get back into it the sled will pull more like it did at the start of the pull because the ECU doesn't need to work with 50+ more warmer charge temps.

 

[Arctic Thunder]

The act of compressing the air is what creates the heat not heat transfer from the compressor housing to the intake air.

Yep, this sound right. I know the fitting on my air compressor will burn you if you touch it. Our large compressors at work (basicly just like a three stage turbo) are the same way, they generate a lot of heat.

I believe back pressure and dwell time are still factors for sure.

So....

Thunder

 

[Snowmow]

1100 Turbo Videos for 2013

I would think maybe a 1or 2 psi differential would be ok. But if it is around the 9 psi mark. That's just creating to much back pressure and heat. I'm really surprised that no one on here has tested the stock intercoolers efficiency. With the cold air dorkle I'm running I bet the intercooler isn't helping me much if at all. Especially in a climb. Maybe boondocking with the fan on it would help. But in a wide open throttle climb, running a dorkle and no intercooler, how much heat transfer can there be between the air intake and combustion chamber?? I would bet that charge temps would be cooler without the intercooler running the set up I am. Just a guess. And it doesn't look like anyone here has any hard evidence for or against it.

 

[Turbo11T]

I would think maybe a 1or 2 psi differential would be ok. But if it is around the 9 psi mark. That's just creating to much back pressure and heat. I'm really supposed that no one on here has tested the stock intercoolers efficiency. With the cold air dorkle I'm running I bet the intercooler isn't helping me much if at all. Especially in a climb. Maybe boondocking with the fan on it would help. But in a wide open throttle climb, running a dorkle and no intercooler, how much heat transfer can there be between the air intake and combustion chamber?? I would bet that charge temps would be cooler without the intercooler running the set up I am. Just a guess. And it doesn't look like anyone here has any hard evidence for or against it.

I beleive you are wrong.

 

[orange 1]

A 9 PSI difference? How can this be?

 

[Snowmow]

I beleive you are wrong.

Prove me wrong!!! That's all I want. You know the boys at evo well. What do they say? Any testing of stock IC Efficiency?? I Havnt tested it myself. Just trying to think things through here.