horse power per pound of boost

[mattymac]

There is no Cummins (or any for that matter) setup that is running 100 lbs of boost.

I would be surpised to see anything over 30, and that is a lot.

right...



Richard "maddog" madsen 12v cummins around 1100 hp on fuel only 120+lb of boost daily driven. Richard has also driven across the country multiple times to numerous diesel events, dyno's and drag races. He also runs his own personal mobile chassis dyno!

Piers harry (piers diesel reseach) built a tripple turbo 24v cummins that went over 100lbs

shied diesel (garret sheid, or any other sheid built shop sled puller for that matter) sled puller 100+lbs probably pusin 14-1600hp from the mighty 5.9

These are just a few running running tripple digit boost #'s there are plenty more!

There are hundreds if not thousands of cummins running 60-80+lbs of boost all day long!

Im runnin high 50's in mine with an industrial injection SPS 66.


But your the one with all the answers.


Back on track

 

[Boyko]

I mentioned that earlier. Take one larger more efficient turbo boosting a lower PSI and moving more air, verses a smaller less efficient turbo boosting more PSI and still moving less air...

brycter
I agree you can argue this all day long, but in every application I have seen, a properly intercooled turbo/motor always produces more power than a non. I will admit I have not played with boost on a sled, everything I have played with is automotive, but we are still talking a compression 4 stroke motor, and boost.

I LOVE BOOST!

I still want to see a meth setup on a sled.... with meth, you could probably really do without an intercooler.

Hurricane performance has gotten some stupid HP out of the yammy engine on pump fuel thanks to meth, I think it was around 400hp but my memory sucks rocks a lot. There is a few dudes running it and will be a lot more this year becuse of Hurricanes dyno testing. Man you do not want to mess up with it and I dout you will see it on a 2-stroke.

I think you still need a working intercooler at high boost, meth does wonders at preventing pre ignition and slowing down the flame front. From what I have read it does not cool down your intake charge that much but during the compression cycle it sucks a tremendous amount of heat up, it works more on a molecular level at this point. Let say your turbo is making 25psi, yet a compression test on your motor will read 120psi, this is where the air is really getting heated. A working intercooler will still get more oxygen into your motor.

 

[Boyko]

Hey Mattymac

Nice avatar!

I am starting to think mine looks kind of stupid

LOL

 

[Jonce]

Hey Mattymac

Nice avatar!

I am starting to think mine looks kind of stupid

LOL

X2, my avatar needs a new rear end -

 

[milehighassassin]

right...



Richard "maddog" madsen 12v cummins around 1100 hp on fuel only 120+lb of boost daily driven. Richard has also driven across the country multiple times to numerous diesel events, dyno's and drag races. He also runs his own personal mobile chassis dyno!

Piers harry (piers diesel reseach) built a tripple turbo 24v cummins that went over 100lbs

shied diesel (garret sheid, or any other sheid built shop sled puller for that matter) sled puller 100+lbs probably pusin 14-1600hp from the mighty 5.9

These are just a few running running tripple digit boost #'s there are plenty more!

There are hundreds if not thousands of cummins running 60-80+lbs of boost all day long!

Im runnin high 50's in mine with an industrial injection SPS 66.


But your the one with all the answers.


Back on track

Hate to sidetrack, but how about a legitimate link? I can't find anything. I found that he makes some great power but I can't find anything that says he is running over 100 PSI.

I don't buy 60-80 PSI of boost. Also are we talking a SPIKE or sustained? SPikes are worthless and hard on turbos, either way I don't see it.

 

[milehighassassin]

Hurricane performance has gotten some stupid HP out of the yammy engine on pump fuel thanks to meth, I think it was around 400hp but my memory sucks rocks a lot. There is a few dudes running it and will be a lot more this year becuse of Hurricanes dyno testing. Man you do not want to mess up with it and I dout you will see it on a 2-stroke.

I think you still need a working intercooler at high boost, meth does wonders at preventing pre ignition and slowing down the flame front. From what I have read it does not cool down your intake charge that much but during the compression cycle it sucks a tremendous amount of heat up, it works more on a molecular level at this point. Let say your turbo is making 25psi, yet a compression test on your motor will read 120psi, this is where the air is really getting heated. A working intercooler will still get more oxygen into your motor.

It really depends where you are injecting. You can inject pre turbo to bring down EGT temps, you can direct inject and reduce detonation, or you can inject post turbo and bring down intake temps. You usually can't inject pre-intercooler or you will have water piling up in the intercooler. So if you go post turbo you usually have to go after the intercooler as well. IN many cases you can have a dual nozzle, one to bring down intake temps and another to reduce detonation.

 

[mattymac]

Hate to sidetrack, but how about a legitimate link? I can't find anything. I found that he makes some great power but I can't find anything that says he is running over 100 PSI.

I don't buy 60-80 PSI of boost. Also are we talking a SPIKE or sustained? SPikes are worthless and hard on turbos, either way I don't see it.

Ill have to find a link... I know some of these people personally so just cause I dont post a link of them saying 100+lbs of boost pressure doesnt mean its not true based on the fact that its not on the web.

When they have to run oil pressure gauges rigged up to see their boost pressures since no one for a very long time made boost gauges read that much.

These are diesel engines not gassers totally diffrent when it comes to turbocharging.

And 60-80lbs isnt a boost spike they run twin turbo's and big singles up that high all day long!!!!! Even if it was a spike 10% is acceptable so a 60lb spike could and should be mid 50's for sustainted boost pressure which is still high?

 

[mattymac]

heres a link to ATS showing their SINGLE aurora 5000 thats capable of 70 psi


The twins or compounds can support much higher levels.

http://www.atsdiesel.com/ats_new/product.asp?p=2272202&u=c

 

[HOOCH256]

Horsepower this horsepower that, we all know that its not the HP numbers that determine anything its torque, duh!

Horsepower wins bragging rights, and torque wins races!

I deal with turbo'd cars all day long, and its so much more then just boost levels, like a few people have said it all about the efficiency of the turbo and the motor....

thus every turbos efficiency depends on the efficiency of the motor in which it is installed on.....ex i have a nissan silvia with a Garret T-28 turbo it makes 16lbs and the T-28 is a little *** turbo, and also have a LS1 camero with a giant Turbonetics Turbo(dont have number) but it is twice the size of the T-28 an only makes 10psi....

The nissan makes about 375hp at 15psi runs a 10.5@141mph
The Camero makes about 890hp at 9psi runs a 10.0@145mph

 

[Racegun]

The Air Force has been running turbos, with twin screw blowers on there diesel driven Hobart generators for 20+ years. We use to crank the boost up on those just to watch em boil out the smoke.

 

[Boyko]

It really depends where you are injecting. You can inject pre turbo to bring down EGT temps, you can direct inject and reduce detonation, or you can inject post turbo and bring down intake temps. You usually can't inject pre-intercooler or you will have water piling up in the intercooler. So if you go post turbo you usually have to go after the intercooler as well. IN many cases you can have a dual nozzle, one to bring down intake temps and another to reduce detonation.

What I am saying is meth injection does most of its work when it is in the cylinder. Use you head milehighassassin, think, I know you can do it. You seem to type and spell better then me

Do think for the amount of meth you inject in the intake track it is going to drop the charge temp down over a hundred degrees. In that case you could take a spray bottle of windsheid washer fluid, squirt it in someones face and freeze it (Don't try this at home milehighassassin)

Staged turbo charging (one turbo is blowing into another turbo) has been around a lot longer than you or I and +100 psi of boost is frick all to some. I have herd of tractor pulling farmers using a lot more than that that

 

[milehighassassin]

I never said that it would drop it 100 degrees, I simply explained different ways that you can apply it.
I'm not sure why you are getting harsh, this was a good thread.

Turbo's pushing 100 PSI is not the problem, the motor handling that type of pressure is another, I am seeing that there are some applications that go that high, but they are not exactly streetable. That kind of pressure will destroy a motor with time.


I would just like to see this setup. That motor will not hold that for long, unless you invest over $30k into the motor alone, even then it will need to be torn down eventually.

Turbo charging diesels really is not different than a gasoline motor. Diesels just run extremely lean. Tuning is what is different.

 

[Unfair Advantage]

Turbo charging diesels really is not different than a gasoline motor. Diesels just run extremely lean. Tuning is what is different.

With regards to intake plumbing and exhaust gasses yes they are not that different.

Major differences lie within their operating RPM range, engine cycles, combustion pressures and temperatures.

Wasn't this thread about HP vs Boost?

 

[Boyko]

I never said that it would drop it 100 degrees, I simply explained different ways that you can apply it.
I'm not sure why you are getting harsh, this was a good thread.

Turbo's pushing 100 PSI is not the problem, the motor handling that type of pressure is another, I am seeing that there are some applications that go that high, but they are not exactly streetable. That kind of pressure will destroy a motor with time.


I would just like to see this setup. That motor will not hold that for long, unless you invest over $30k into the motor alone, even then it will need to be torn down eventually.

Turbo charging diesels really is not different than a gasoline motor. Diesels just run extremely lean. Tuning is what is different.

Ya but did you know ya can't turbo charge a two stoke Diesel

If you could the thing would hall at 115 psi

Cheers dude

Witers coming

 

[portgrinder]

all depends on the efficiency of your turbo/super at that point, ie the map

 

[DRD]

Ya but did you know ya can't turbo charge a two stoke Diesel

If you could the thing would hall at 115 psi

Cheers dude

Witers coming

Better tell that to Detroit Diesel. Almost all the 53,71,92,149 and the EMD could be had with turbocharging and intercooling.


"Turbo charging diesels really is not different than a gasoline motor. Diesels just run extremely lean. Tuning is what is different. "

Uhh, what???
Don't take this the wrong way but you should stop typing.

 

[milehighassassin]

Better tell that to Detroit Diesel. Almost all the 53,71,92,149 and the EMD could be had with turbocharging and intercooling.


"Turbo charging diesels really is not different than a gasoline motor. Diesels just run extremely lean. Tuning is what is different. "

Uhh, what???
Don't take this the wrong way but you should stop typing.

What is so different?

The motors are obviously different, but with the forced induction side, there is little that changes. Fueling is different (Tuning).

 

[DRD]

The biggest difference is with a diesel you are only supercharging the cylinder with air, fuel is metered into the cylinder after the intake valves (or ports) are closed. A spark ignited engine is supercharged (normally) with an air/fuel mixture. You could increase the boost on a diesel engine and not increase the power, you increase the boost on a gas engine, since you are adding both fuel and air, you will get an increase in power. This is one of the reasons why most gas engines will have some method to control boost while many diesels will not. With a gas engine, you add more air/fuel, you have more energy to drive the turbocharger, this adds /allows more air/fuel, the cycle could continue until something bad happens. Also a diesel will see an A/F of say 20:1 at load but see upwards of 60:1 at light load. A gas engine has to be kept in a narrow A/F ratio to insure combustion. Either to lean or rich will cause a misfire.

I digress, what was the original question?

 

[polarisfornow]

x2 ^^^^ on all that and just to add to it is important to understand that a diesel has no throttle body to control air flow. the engine takes in as much air at full throttle (not counting turbo) as it does at idle. but just uses the amount of fuel to govern engine speed. the rule of thumb on tuning the 2 is with a diesel you add fuel then use boost to lean it out. with a gas you add boost then use fuel to get the correct A/F.

oh and about 10hp per lb of boost is common

 

[Boyko]

Better tell that to Detroit Diesel. Almost all the 53,71,92,149 and the EMD could be had with turbocharging and intercooling.


"Turbo charging diesels really is not different than a gasoline motor. Diesels just run extremely lean. Tuning is what is different. "

Uhh, what???
Don't take this the wrong way but you should stop typing.

For the longest time I always thought you need a positive displacement blower on a two stroke diesel. I know better now, thanks, sorry for the BS info.