Honest discussion about avy deaths

[SSWIM]

The fact is that he put himself in slide path, whether he thought he was safe, I do not know. Now looking at the pics of that area, all I can say is holy crap. Not hard to see that coming.

I rode an area in the trees a few weeks back while trying to get to the top of a range and found an open area that looked easy to climb, but I refused to enter it because I could see a cornice up and around a bend and if it slid it would be ugly. It was nothing as steep and gnarly as those pics, what could possibly make those guys think that this area was safe?

Dave, how many have the back country experience you do though??? You have YEARS of valuable back country experience. This comes from TIME spent in the mountains, plus education. You are very aware of the conditions around you. If we think about it, some of these riders may only get out this way once in a few years, if they are lucky. Does this give them a hall pass, NO. But it can shed light on the lack of experience. Sadly, it is virtually impossible to educate every single person that makes trips to the back country.

Sam

 

[backcountryislife]

You are still able to do it with a certain amount of TACT. I'm sure your conversations were stern but with compassion. That's the defining quotient here.

Sam

Tact???


Sam, you & I need to meet in person some time... few would make that mistake after a face to face with me


Btw, BOTH Dave & I have the experience that includes being caught in a serious slide & making our own mistakes... few of us are blameless in this game, but we NEED to talk about it to remind each other of the mistakes we make, often without consequence.... conversation about this stuff matters.

 

[m8braaaap]

K guys.here it is.in the mancos avy, 5 riders climb one at a time to a bench to the left of the chute.no pictures show where they were.the last rider gets stuck on the hill.the guy who was caught and buried walked down to help him get the sled turned around.he was a smaller guy and they decided he would ride the sled out for a better chance of making it to the top.he rode the sled down the hill into the trees to turn around and got stuck.2 minutes after they heard the engine stop the slide broke to the north of the other four riders.as the slide decended it got wider and went into the trees taking him and the sled off the cliff edge of the chute and down to the bottom.i hope this clears up the speculation as to what happened.they were never in the chute and were aware of the danger.best place to be that day? Hell no but they were not being careless. just wrong place rite time.

 

[m8braaaap]

And i do agree with the theory stay out of any dangerous area on certain days.not everyone does this.it is the only way to guarantee a safe day on the mountain.

 

[Jermbob]

Sorry to hear your loss of friends...****ty deal. Never like hearing these stories.

As a backcountry snowmobile guide the one thing I can say from my experience is helping people getting unstuck in areas that are dangerous or have the potential to bury me always scare the crap out of me. Happens all the time. What I have learned over the years is to let the stuck person dig themselves out and get to the island of safety on their own while we all watch the slope above ready to act.

This year has been nasty for Avalanches. Seen more avalanches than I care to. I have also seen so many poor choices. Groups high marking at the same time, riding trees that they think are safe and not realizing what is above them. There was a group just last weekend riding one of my favorite zones and they failed to see the 9 other avalanches that released naturally and decided they should ride the adjacent slope anyway. One was buried but lived. Plain lucky.

Take as many avy coures as you can and keep taking them. Ride with people that do the same to better your odd's.

Be safe out there.

 

[FCR112]

Thanks for sharing that M8, rough deal.

 

[m8braaaap]

Thanks for sharing that M8, rough deal.

Sorry guys but i wasn't gonna give the facts until people stopped the argument.i will chime in as long as no one starts being a ahole.

 

[OuraySledder]

Thanks for the story brapp. It is nice to know how it went down. I disagree with the "not careless" part though. On that day, there was no safe line across there. They all did it, most have to live with it, nasty stuff. I am not trying to pick on you or them but that was not a good place to be. Being there was a concious decision. Change your plans people. Don't go into high danger areas on sketchy avy days. Don't go into them at all if you are smart. I am not saying I haven't done it, this needs to make all of us take another look.

 

[m8braaaap]

Not that it wouldve saved him but no beacon is always a mistake.during the recovery search we did a beacon check before entering the chute and guess what, my beacon wasn't transmitting.do a beacon check everyday with your group and check both search and tracking.my search mode works but no transmission.upgrade every 5 years says bca customer service

 

[Jermbob]

That is another one...What he said. Always check your beacons at the location your riding not the lodge/parking lot. Batteries die, happened to me last year after reading 88 percent then dead. The new beacons are three antena, must have in my book if you have to dig someone out. Which I have.

I think you have all heard of him but in case you haven't his name is Mike Duffy owner of Avalanche One out of eagle. He teaches Level 1 and 2 courses to snowmobilers. I took my first class from him in 1998 and will never look back. Changed how I look at the backcountry and most likely saved my *** countless times. Worth the money.

 

[801]

just one thing to add~ when ya ride with your beacon~ shut the cell phone off~ or the beacon may not function properly~

 

[SSWIM]

Tact???


Sam, you & I need to meet in person some time... few would make that mistake after a face to face with me


Btw, BOTH Dave & I have the experience that includes being caught in a serious slide & making our own mistakes... few of us are blameless in this game, but we NEED to talk about it to remind each other of the mistakes we make, often without consequence.... conversation about this stuff matters.

You can play bad a** all you want. I have read enough of your posts to know there is tact in there. You're not the Lone Ranger either when it comes to back country avy experiences. Or making poor choices. I've done things that should have haunted my family and friends. Not proud of them either. And I agree 100% on conversation. Just using a little diplomacy garners a much more compliant and attentive audience. Mike Duffy is a great example.

BTW. Carry on now ya forum bully.

Sam

 

[m8braaaap]

Wtf is TACT?

 

[J almont]

The guys from WI were friends of mine, some in the group I used to coach back home... and after that incident, lots has been talked about in regard to what was done wrong, and the fact that mistakes were made. People start out defensive, but if they have a brain they HAVE to realize that mistakes were made, and that we can learn from their loss.

I've personally been on the other side of this, and While mine was an odd situation... STILL serious mistakes were made, and many of us have learned from them as well.

I find the denial, the "respect for the dead" and all that BS complete horsecrap. Have respect for the dead... LEARN FROM WHAT THEY DID WRONG & don't do it again.

Backcountry, I am truly sorry about your friend that passed. I guess for me
the thing that gets me the most is that it upset me so much, that I actually
considered hanging it up. Fritz the owner of GMS was shook to the core. I had no idea that the slide was caused by these guys for a couple days afterward when I talked to Fritz and he told me who it was. It is much harder to deal with when you can put a face to it. I hope you were not taking my
post in a negative way.

On a lighter note- Ski Doo WTF

 

[backcountryislife]

Backcountry, I am truly sorry about your friend that passed. I guess for me
the thing that gets me the most is that it upset me so much, that I actually
considered hanging it up. Fritz the owner of GMS was shook to the core. I had no idea that the slide was caused by these guys for a couple days afterward when I talked to Fritz and he told me who it was. It is much harder to deal with when you can put a face to it. I hope you were not taking my
post in a negative way.

On a lighter note- Ski Doo WTF

Not at all man... THEY F***ED UP, and without discussing it, someone ELSE will F up in the same way, dishonoring their memories.


Carl lives in Twin lakes... he's not new to CO, he's not new to the backcountry. The boys came to visit (about 1/2 the crew had decent amounts of bc experience, some of them spend a bunch of time with our other buddies up in Idaho on sleds) and stoke took over common sense. Carl now gets to live with those choices with this right in his back yard, I can't imagine.

Just like the guys at Sheep Creek last spring... I've ridden with 2 of them, and they VERY much knew better, they were far from average BC guys, they were strong evaluators imo... but they let the excitement take place of their education, and they paid.

Just sunday I let a photag I was working with sit in a very poor spot, just so he could get "the" shot... I should have said something, but I didn't... sh** like that is all good & well when you get lucky, but on a long enough timeline, it's gonna bite you in the a$$ eventually.


Being educated doesn't cut it, we all have to PRACTICE intelligent choices more often.

 

[Jermbob]

"Being educated doesn't cut it, we all have to PRACTICE intelligent choices more often."


Yep, pretty much sums it up Kaleb. Well said. Practice, practice, practice and keep it going.

 

[tundra277]

Don't know how to add the link but the final report is out from the CAIC on their website.

 

[dtown]

Link to final report.
http://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/acc/acc_report.php?acc_id=532&accfm=inv

Not having a beacon is pretty selfish. Look at the number of searchers (with families) the victim put in considerable harms way, by not having a beacon. It probably wouldn't have saved his life, but it definitely would have mitigated the risk of the searchers... Our choices in the backcountry affect our community, not just me or you as an individual.