High Octane Fuel

[ippielb]

So, i built a turbo set up on my firecat and i was wondering what people run for fueling through turbo'd 2 stokes. I was going to run AV gas, but since it has lead in it, i don't feel like going through o2 senors left right and center. I know the most common are going to be race fuel and pump fuel, but i have access to 94 octane pump fuel, and i was wanting to do a little mixing with chemicals to increase the octane, instead of having to buy expensive race fuel. I know people put chemicals in their cars to increase the octane level such as Toluene, Xylene, and Methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether (MTBE) but i was wondering if they dry the fuel too much like methyl alchohol gas line antifreeze.

Toluene and Xylene are both solvents, so would it be harmful to run through a 2-stroke engine?

Both of these chemicals are used in "octane boosters" that you buy from the gas station.

Toulene is around 114 Octane... $2.50 a gallon(estimate)
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane

Xylene is around 117 Octane... $2.75 a gallon(estimate)
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.5 Octane
20%...97.0 Octane
30%...99.5 Octane

And Methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether (MTBE) is around 118 Octane... $3.50 a gallon
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.6 Octane
20%...97.2 Octane
30%...99.8 Octane

Let me know what you guys think. Is it safe to run, even with the fuel being cold? That's a lot cheaper then race fuel.

Also found this on internet.

How to make your own octane booster (this is the basic formula of one of the popular octane booster products). To make eight 16 ounce bottles (128 oz = 1 gal):

100 oz of toulene for octane boost
25 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent)
3 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent)

This product is advertised as "octane booster with cleaning agent *and* lubricating agent!". Diesel fuel or kerosene can be substituted for mineral spirits and light turbine oil can be substituted for transmission fluid. Color can be added with petroleum dyes.

But instead of adding a cleaning agent and tranny fluid, just add some more 2-stroke oil to the fuel? Or just turn the oil pump up?

 

[hatchers]

hate to burst your bubble, but thats all pretty math on paper....run a mix then cut or add and inspect pistons, anything else is mostly guess work

 

[ippielb]

No i totally understand that, those are just some rough numbers, my main concern is if it's safe to use those chemicals if it's harmful to use in 2 strokes as they're oil injected, if the chemicals will inhibit the purpose of the injected oil.

 

[harf69]

By the time u mix that u could have just bought av gas you might loose one every other year

 

[CO 2.0]

I would just run a quality race gas that is formulated to proper specs. Those paint thinners are very hard on engine components, lines, etc... I also think a gallon of Xylene is closer to $18 per gal which is 2x's the cost of the best race gas on the market.

 

[TheBreeze]

Stick with the race gas, or the100ll, and if you have to replace an 02 sensor from time to time, so be it. Its got to be better than dicking around with toulene and xylene.

 

[backcountryislife]

As a drywall & Paint contractor with a commercial account at SW, I can tell you that those prices are WAY off. The prices of that stuff have gone through the roof lately.

Reputable turbo builders recommend toluene, but unless you CAN NOT get race gas, I'd avoid it. Even at my price it makes more sense to just buy race gas.

 

[ippielb]

Thanks, exactly what I was after. So a guy can run 100 low lead av gas and have the o2 sensor last more then a year? If so then I'll just run that.

 

[SSWIM]

Just run Av gas.

Sam

 

[backcountryislife]

Just run Av gas.

Sam

That's a great solution if you can get it easily. Not all airports are like GJ that are cool with selling it, and if you have to drive to get av, or race, you can run less race than av & get the same performance. Then there's airports like Kremmling where they decided to start raping the sledders that were buying it, and DOUBLED their price... not worth buying anymore when that's the case.

If I recall, it takes 6 gal of av to equal 2 gal of 116 in my sled... If' I've got to transport it, there's no question which makes more sense for me (doing the math, the AV was also about $2 more a tank)

 

[Boyko]

AV Gas is good stable fuel at a good price. I have been running M1000s for a few years and thay love the stuff! If you position your O2 sensor rite you can get some good use out of it. Run a extended bung and try not to position it on a outside radius.

 

[wasatchcomm]

i love avgas....

 

[rusty rider]

I spoke with boondockers last year and they suggested for a good all around fuel to take a 55 drum and fill it with 25 gal. 92 non oxy then 25 gal. 100ll and 5 gal. of Toluene. It was suppose to be around 105 octane in the end. 100ll is a dry fuel so the Toluene was suppose to act as a lubricating agent. I have not ran this myself yet. To me I would feel most comfortable running race mixed with pump. It's just cheap insurance vs losing a top end and taking out the turbo, which would far out weigh the cost of race fuel.

 

[boondocker97]

Sounds like you need a pump gas turbo! People crack me up that spend thousands on high horsepower motors and then try to cheap out on what it takes to make them run.

 

[av8er]

5.6 gallons of 110 mixed with 4.6 gal. of 92 = 10 gal of 100 octane

it's just easier to mix 5gal and 5gal or straight AVgas. I did a cost comparison of mixing 50/50 to straight Avgas at the current Avgas price which can be found on www.airnav.com 1 month ago the difference in price was $.08 less per gallon running straight 100LL than mixing 50/50 in Kalispell, MT. at the Kalispell city airport where they have pump your own gas

 

[backcountryislife]

Sounds like you need a pump gas turbo! People crack me up that spend thousands on high horsepower motors and then try to cheap out on what it takes to make them run.

BLAH BLAH BLAH...

The same BS comment I've seen for years.

Just because some people aren't ignorant enough to PISS away money into their tanks every ride, doesn't make them inferior.

Some of us have better things to do with our money than to piss it into the tank... and even if we DID... you just cost yourself performance by adding too much. Find what you need & run it, whether that be av, pump, race, or whatever the heck mix you want to run.

Personally, I run 60-70 days a year, oct to july... and If I wasted my money on "the right gas" whatever that may be by your standard... I'd be working more & riding less.

Sorry... I'm just downright sick & tired of the STUPID comments about how people who don't waste money on whatever YOU waste your money on are doing it wrong. (like the $30 you wasted giving it to SW... that's 3 gal of 116 for me!!!)

 

[catmanm7]

I ran 100% av gas last year. The only problem I have is dragging as 15 gallon gas can through the gate and to the pump to fill it. Then drag it all the way back. The 2 local airports will not let me drive up to the pump because I do not have a plane. Unless I spend a couple hundred on a nice gas caddy, that is my only problem with av gas. Ill be looking into race gas this year and mix it with pump.

 

[backcountryislife]

The 2 local airports will not let me drive up to the pump because I do not have a plane.

So you've got the money to build a nice turbo... but you cheaped out & won't just buy a plane so you can go get gas????

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Could you list just exactly what you are running for mods boost and elevation. Good chance you can run very little av gas mix and the sensor will last for a while. Running straight and it will go in 2-300 miles. I was running 12lbs without det at 10000ft with a 4 gal of av and think I could have run less.

 

[CO 2.0]

Why not forget about running leaded race gas in general? I buy 55gal drums of Sunoco GT PLUS 104oct unleaded through a local distributor. Get it dropped shipped to my work. It's a great high octane fuel without the hassles of lead.