Here we go - Reviving the 9 ----------For mountain riders, Polaris is introducing the new Patriot 9R engine – a radical, naturally aspirated big-bore
- Thread starter SixtySevenGT
- Start date
Was your prediction about the mass failing of the 2019 850 based on cylinder finish/honing or pto bearings?
What percentage do you think went down the 1st season due to the cylinder finish?
Also you said no warranty or dealer would be able to help right?
I really hope you aren't calling these a win lol!
My point was that you said it was doom and gloom for the 850 and in my opinion the 850 motor is stellar. Now you say it is doom and gloom for the 900. I do agree that the bigger and badder you make a motor, the more likely it will fail. What is not so clear here is if Polaris has fully tested these motors and have overcome the issues one would expect with a big bore and short stroke. I am not blindly saying I trust Polaris as I chose to snocheck another 850 over the 900, but recent history has me convinced that Polaris cannot afford to put out a new motor that will fail.
Sorry, I must have hurt your feelings for you to have to knock me personally. I presented facts for Dan to respond to, and he justified his view point.
Dan,
You are disputing the wrong facts. I am not knocking your product, your service, your knowledge or anything like that. In fact I admire your knowledge and achievements.
I am only bringing up your old prediction that the 850's were going to be a big failure, and I don't see that your predition was correct.
Now you predict the same for the 900. I do agree with you that by design it is more likely to fail than the 850, but what is at stake for Polaris is way bigger this time around.
I see Ski-doo as a way stronger competitor for market share now. They offer much more to get excited about than then have had for years. If Polaris releases a 900 that falls apart, hords of Polaris faithful will move to Doo.
In the same manor, if the G5 is an epic failure and that motor comes apart, Doo will lose big market share. It is more about focusing on what drives these manufacturers rather than focusing on the motor itself.
Please actually read what I post and don't assume I am gunning for you, because I am not.
Chris
ID, please accept this as permission for you to rant loud on the 22 Matryx 850 fuel pump to trigger the wrath of Poo.
I know you're too legit to accept a GoFundMe cause to accept Poo's wrath, but prayer ain't gonna work here, either, if the history of pray'in to Poo to fix their stupid chit stays true. Perhaps we need a plucked ostrich with a Starfire tatoo emoji or avatar.
I know you're too legit to accept a GoFundMe cause to accept Poo's wrath, but prayer ain't gonna work here, either, if the history of pray'in to Poo to fix their stupid chit stays true. Perhaps we need a plucked ostrich with a Starfire tatoo emoji or avatar.
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Fair enough Dan. You explained why there were not as many downed 850's as you first predicted, Polaris made a change. As far as how many you have in your shop, would you honestly say more 850's have failed than previous 800 Polaris models?
Teth
Had no insult in mind honestly.
In fact acknowledged your intelligence, was inquiring into your purpose of such a pointless nitpick.
However, you’ve continued to prick tit for tit as Dan continues to only be concerned with servicing motor issues which are undeniable.
I intentionally left out the tat cuz Dans all business while you’re playing with your own tits.
Now you’re on to a tally of model failure vs model failure?
What’s next?
Which version of windows he runs his accounting on?
I don’t know Dan, don’t even ride Polaris, but it’s easy to see he’s an asset to keeping them running.
Over the years I’ve seen you as an asset to the forum in many ways as well Teth, which is why I asked originally why bother poking a guy trying to solve motor problems?
Had no insult in mind honestly.
In fact acknowledged your intelligence, was inquiring into your purpose of such a pointless nitpick.
However, you’ve continued to prick tit for tit as Dan continues to only be concerned with servicing motor issues which are undeniable.
I intentionally left out the tat cuz Dans all business while you’re playing with your own tits.
Now you’re on to a tally of model failure vs model failure?
What’s next?
Which version of windows he runs his accounting on?
I don’t know Dan, don’t even ride Polaris, but it’s easy to see he’s an asset to keeping them running.
Over the years I’ve seen you as an asset to the forum in many ways as well Teth, which is why I asked originally why bother poking a guy trying to solve motor problems?
I must of gotten one of the good 800r motors. I only had a rod go through mine once.
I've never spoken to Dan or anyone else at Indy Specialties, but I have to some others through the years that are deeply involved in the snowmobile industry. The phrase "those that know don't say, and those that say don't know" is pretty true. There are varying reasons for that, and I'm sure Dan has his for not blasting out specific numbers. Some of the things and reasons these guys will make light of to you in a candid in person discussion really make you go "holy s***." The industry is too small for them to run around publicly burning bridges. I usually thank them for the information and keep it off the internet out of respect for them and their businesses. There's been once or twice when someone asks a question on the forum and I'll say something like "you might not want to do that," based on something I've seen or been told, and get negative comments because I won't disclose it. So I'm more of the type that don't say now.
And it does seem to be true that more negative is reported than positive on the internet, but definitely not all the negative does either. There are lots of people that don't blast their issues on the internet. Especially when you consider the average age of the snowmobile demographic is on the older side. Shoot some don't even tell their buddies about issues out of some type of pride or embarrassment.
And it does seem to be true that more negative is reported than positive on the internet, but definitely not all the negative does either. There are lots of people that don't blast their issues on the internet. Especially when you consider the average age of the snowmobile demographic is on the older side. Shoot some don't even tell their buddies about issues out of some type of pride or embarrassment.
Actually I posted my reply in another thread by accident.
Here is what I said:
"I would say that question has a 2 fold answer …..
1 - Bottom-end
2 - Top-end"
__________________________________________________
So are you saying more bottom-ends of the 850 have failed but more top ends of the 800's have failed?
If so, the bottom ends of the 850 were fixed for 2020 so the 850's in your shop must be mostly high milage 19's, I assume?
I can accept that. The 900's will have a proven (fixed) bottom-end, (bearing wise), it will be pistons that will be questionable, if they will survive. I did hear form a good source that it took Polaris 3 piston designs before they found the design that held up. You predict an epic failure of this motor. If you are right, what can be done to it to make it right?
Longer stroke?, heavier flywheel? Both reduce accelleration.
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My 2 Penny's worth clutch wear and maintenance is going to be key to make the 900 live. The light weight crank in the 800 was hard on clutches, it's going to be worse with bigger pistons mounted to it. I would plan on having a spare clutch and having it rebuilt and balanced as soon as things start to wear.
We had 8 - 2019 850's in our group and we lost one due to the plugged oil line with crankcase sealer. Otherwise all are still running. A couple with turbos!
We had 8 - 2019 850's in our group and we lost one due to the plugged oil line with crankcase sealer. Otherwise all are still running. A couple with turbos!
I hope that new P-22 clutch will survive, once set up correctly.
Dan, I don't doubt the motors you are doing are mostly 2020 and newer as those sleds are of more value and worth dumping some money into. Now I am curious if those motors needed rebuilding because they were worn out with high miles or failed far earlier than they should have? I see failures on 2 strokes at 3000 miles. Yes I know they should go farther but most of us have accepted that that is the life span of a mountain sled motor. I expect you work on many trail sleds too and I expect those go double or triple the miles? Don't forget you said the cylinder honing will be a failure point of the 850 too and they would ALL have ring failure.
Does it mean anything to you that Carl's Cycle and BBA been running this setup for multiple seasons with great results?
FWIW, the best running 850 I got to ride last year was setup by Carl's.
That suspension and clutching was DIALED! Impressed every guy that rode it
FWIW, the best running 850 I got to ride last year was setup by Carl's.
That suspension and clutching was DIALED! Impressed every guy that rode it
Burandt's Backcountry Adventures
I have serious doubts a Carl's 900 and a factory 9R can be considered the same other than in displacement.
According to a salesman at Carl's, Polaris has been providing them with pistons and cylinders for these kits for the last couple of years. I don't work there so I can't verify that but that's what I was told.
That salesman builds a new Carl's 900 every year and I was in line to buy his '22 but then Polaris released the 9R.
Carl's reputation is pretty solid in the western mtns. I am confident that people are going to love the 9R and it is going to hold together and run STRONG
