Helping with clutch heat and blowing belts

[Original Tetonice]

I can only speak of my own experience. I did exactly what I advised the previous poster to do i.e. 19tooth gear, remove pin weight (because we are riding at 10K feet). I had no belt issues, primary was not hot to the touch and I would pull great out of the hole & climb great (even though first tank of fuel.. running rich) and still shifted all the way out & reached 80mph on the trails... IMO, it worked! IMO, if you have some knowledge to pass along great!! But, it might come across better if didn't seem as though you are "the clutching god" and the rest of us have had no prior experience or at least are willing to share what we know without being offensive. GO RIDE!

Dude here's a dead give away........( even though first tank of gas...running rich ) LOL Skdoo's historically don't run very well until they get at least 300miles on them. And at 10K your not hitting overdrive, at 10K in deep snow your sled is down 30% of it's power and working real hard to stay aflot..Ggo out and look at your clutch sheaves, Im willing to bet you have at least 1inch or more until your at or near the overdrive.

Im not here to be the "clutching god" just calling BS on running NO pin weight. FYI your pin weight should be used for nothing more than dialing in your RPM...More pin weight will drop your RPM less pin weight will increase your RPM, it's that simple.....The shape of the ramp(s) will determine how fast or slow the arm(S) that push against the ramps will upshift. The Primary Spring dictates side pressure as well as engagement. A softer springer will typically engage at lower rpm's while a stiffer spring will typically engage at a slightly higher RPM.

The trouble with springs is there always changing getting softer as more miles are logged. When i buy a new spring before i install the spring i sqweeze it in a vise over night to break the spring in, knowing full well that the stiff spring you think you bought is getting softer and softer every time you ride....The cheap "coat hanger wire" spring that comes with your XP are not of the highest quality and because there always changing (getting softer) can and will have an effect on performance, belt wear and excessive heat.

OT

 

[Ephratafarmer]

Just a little info, the stock xp 800 threaded pins weigh 10.6 to 10.7 gr. and there is a 1.6 to 1.7 gr. set screw in them, making the weight about 12.4 gr.. These are not the long threaded pins but the standard ones, I weigh all parts before I start, a 1/2, to 1 gr. is a lot to be off. It was stated earlier on here to do ONE THING AT A TIME, that was a great statement to understand and follow. Also a person would help them selves agreat deal if they would come to understand the function of each clutch part and the boundary of each part and how too much of anything can be bad. After all that is said I still have a lot to learn. Thanks Form--Ken

 

[blksumit]

The worst clutch tuners in the world are those clutch tuner who change gears, pin weight, ramps and springs at at the same time. In doing so you have no idea what each part has gained or lost.

This is great advice! One thing I would add is to keep notes on setups and performance. Surprising how fast you can forget!! JMO

Dave

 

[Original Tetonice]

Dave, keeping setup notes is a great advice...It's suggested to bring along small note pad and keep notes in real time, ie elevations, temps and conditions while riding....before you know it you'll a baseline of what works and what doesn't.

Small steps will lead to big improvements.

OT

 

[SWEETXPBEATCH]

Dude here's a dead give away........( even though first tank of gas...running rich ) LOL Skdoo's historically don't run very well until they get at least 300miles on them. And at 10K your not hitting overdrive, at 10K in deep snow your sled is down 30% of it's power and working real hard to stay aflot..Ggo out and look at your clutch sheaves, Im willing to bet you have at least 1inch or more until your at or near the overdrive.

Im not here to be the "clutching god" just calling BS on running NO pin weight. FYI your pin weight should be used for nothing more than dialing in your RPM...More pin weight will drop your RPM less pin weight will increase your RPM, it's that simple.....The shape of the ramp(s) will determine how fast or slow the arm(S) that push against the ramps will upshift. The Primary Spring dictates side pressure as well as engagement. A softer springer will typically engage at lower rpm's while a stiffer spring will typically engage at a slightly higher RPM.

The trouble with springs is there always changing getting softer as more miles are logged. When i buy a new spring before i install the spring i sqweeze it in a vise over night to break the spring in, knowing full well that the stiff spring you think you bought is getting softer and softer every time you ride....The cheap "coat hanger wire" spring that comes with your XP are not of the highest quality and because there always changing (getting softer) can and will have an effect on performance, belt wear and excessive heat.

OT

Thanks for the info OT,
I always keep a list of what changes I have made. To me, it gets to be like a maze & I start wondering which way out... Give me your recommendation on this scenario. An overwhelming number of people blowing belts by ~100miles, excess clutch heat with questionable performance?? WHat I did, dropped to 19tooth gear (help with low end grunt, improve gearing ratio & hopefully drop clutch temps) I realize I am only masking what may be another issue (still unclear what that may be i.e. helix, spring tension etc), I also pulled the LONG screw from my pins. WIth this done, belt looked great, clutches were never too hot to touch. HOwever, I had to put my clickers on #5 at 10K' to reach ~8200rpm's. I weigh my pins & with the long screw out & a smaller pin put back in its place I am still under revving in my opinion. SO, I summized pull more pin wt? What do you think? Oh yeah, my belt is shifting all the way to the top minus 1/2" at most.
Thanks in advance
XP

 

[hymark860]

Great info.

As a note I was at the reputable dealer yesterday. They had a Doo mechanic there updating the protos from last year to 08 specs to be sold.

Anyway, I was fishing for info. I had mentioned the belt problems. He said they had a fix but wouldn't devulge. Every sled they were setting up had no issues. The Doo mechanic was even surprised by what they found.

I do know there not changing to a 19t gear or running alot of pin weight.

Sorry to lead you on but that was the best I could get out of them.

 

[WFO or go home]

I never have figured out why everyone insists on gearing their sleds down so much. Once you pass a certain point you are just eating up track speed.

I think some dealers and aftermarket kit pedallers do it to give instant gratification and a seat of the pant feel with no real improvement.

TRA clutches run hotter than most and that's that.

 

[JLeosnow]

Great info.

As a note I was at the reputable dealer yesterday. They had a Doo mechanic there updating the protos from last year to 08 specs to be sold.

Anyway, I was fishing for info. I had mentioned the belt problems. He said they had a fix but wouldn't devulge. Every sled they were setting up had no issues. The Doo mechanic was even surprised by what they found.

I do know there not changing to a 19t gear or running alot of pin weight.

Sorry to lead you on but that was the best I could get out of them.

Thanks for the info hymark860. I do wonder why the dealer would feel that it is not appropriate to share this information...?? I understand that they would want thier own customers satisfied at delivery and after but at this point they have nothing to loose by sharing this info. As a matter of fact(IMO), if they do prove that they are really on to something here, they just may gain future spring order sled sales because people will trust thier PDI set-up & thier ability to understand exactly what they are selling.

-John

 

[blksumit]

I never have figured out why everyone insists on gearing their sleds down so much. Once you pass a certain point you are just eating up track speed.

WFO(or go home),
Most or all sleds are overgeared from the factory(liability issues I am sure)At 10,000-12,000ft., you will be lucky to get your belt 5/8-3/4" from the top of the primary(this is at FULL shift out!) Most clutches run most efficiently at a 1 to 1 ratio, therfore the clutches are only efficient at top MPH. I prefer to move the curve closer to the MPH where most of my riding is. Going from 19/45 to 19/47 MPH stays the same(at high altitude), because at 19/45 you're at approximately 1 to 1. With 19/47 you are using the overdrive of the primary to achieve top speed. This is with TRA's. Anyhow. it's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Dave

 

[SWEETXPBEATCH]

here here

WFO(or go home),
Most or all sleds are overgeared from the factory(liability issues I am sure)At 10,000-12,000ft., you will be lucky to get your belt 5/8-3/4" from the top of the primary(this is at FULL shift out!) Most clutches run most efficiently at a 1 to 1 ratio, therfore the clutches are only efficient at top MPH. I prefer to move the curve closer to the MPH where most of my riding is. Going from 19/45 to 19/47 MPH stays the same(at high altitude), because at 19/45 you're at approximately 1 to 1. With 19/47 you are using the overdrive of the primary to achieve top speed. This is with TRA's. Anyhow. it's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Dave

I agree with you Dave. Back to my question to OT. The correct answer right now, without changing out other parts right now.....PUll addl pin weight OUT!!!

 

[WFO or go home]

I agree completely that factory gear ratio's can be reduced for performance gains but you can only go so far before it is counter productive. I generally go a little under stock but not to extreme's.

 

[Original Tetonice]

I agree with you Dave. Back to my question to OT. The correct answer right now, without changing out other parts right now.....PUll addl pin weight OUT!!!

Next time your out riding at 9K or 10K watch your tach while pinned WFO and at Full shift out do this both while under load climbing and boondooking in deep snow. If your rpm exceeds 8100 R's adding pinweight will bring the R's down ....If your below 8100 rpm reducing pin weight will brings the R's up.... Adjustable pins are available at any aftermarket doo shop.

Note: 8100 RPM is the peak HP of the XP 800R exceed the peak rpm and your loosing power.

Note: Historically the Doo motors and the TRA respond very well to primary weight, The TRA primary which is a bit lazy like to be forced and pushed. having heavier pinweight allows rollers/arms more consistant force on the ramps, which sure helps in holding rpm and upshifting. Carefull ramp selection is key to steep a ramp can slow upshift, which can prevent you from shifting out all the way. I also agree with the 19/47 theory as well....Track Speed, Track Speed, Track Speed is what gets you from point "A" to point "B" the fastest.

Note: Historically the Tach can be off 100 to 150 rpm.

Note: You can baseline on clicker #1 which give you more adjustable range once a baseline has been established OR you can baseline on clicker #3 which gives you 2 clicks up and 2 clicks down. Each click up of the clickers is good for a gain of 100 to 150 rpm's per click.

As for heat the best way to manage and reduce clutch heat would be to add vents. The same vent is on the cansiter side as well... The vents are made by R&M and without a dought help reduce TRA clutch heat.

 

[Mr_Joshua101]

154 xp

I just went for a road ride today. My first ride. I cleaned my clutches before I left and its very very clear that I am not shifting close to all the way out. We started at 7000 feet and went to 10900 feet and back. after I loaded it back on the trailer I looked at the clutches and it was at least an inch from the top of the primary. Plus I could only get 63 mph out of the it. My dads mountain cat 900 was smoken me in drags on the way home. We only have like 14" of snow so it not like there was all this resistance. Plus it was packed on the road. Both the secondary and primary were so hot i couldn't touch them fast enough without getting burnt. Im running 8150 rpms on clicker 2. it was like 8400 on clicker 3. Any advice? Im new to the tra. I have no idea what you are talking about with pin weight and all that.

 

[Skidooer]

OT please help with this.


1. What ramps would you run to go higher pin weight? If I just add pin weight to stock ramps I will be in #6 and still under taching. How would you set up primary to run more weight?


2. What do you think about the set up suggested by Ghostrider?


3. What about set up in secondary? Stay stock?

 

[SWEETXPBEATCH]

Curious if dealers are setting up pin weight diff

I have noticed rpm's varying greatly within our group of riders.
They were over revving & I was under revving.
I pull out a 4gm pin before I went & added a 2.ogm with Daltons hollow pins.
I believe I ended up ~2gms lighter than stock. I like those vents, for the price, we are going to make our own & keep the stock panel down by the primary for fear of it wearing through the side. THinking aluminum plate fixed to the panel at primary would be an easy band aide.

 

[grizking]

Tried this set up. Sled seems to pull a little harder in a climb. But as far as belt heat no help at all none.

 

[Doomore]

Grizking, what setup did you try?
Thanks, Doo

 

[johnny be bad]

you know it would be nice if brp came to bat for us! here we are trying to figure out( what is now are problem) there problems! you know it really sucks when youve tried every thing out there and still no fix! added pin weight today with the 19 tooth gear and still pulled cords! i think were going backwards now instead of forward. im putting the 21 tooth back in, pulled harder with it in!

 

[grizking]

Grizking, what setup did you try?
Thanks, Doo

tried the 433 ramps with 16 grams of pin wieght and 19 gear.

 

[upnover]

belt eatin

hi guys, sorry about your troubles, i have an 06 rmk belt eatin mofo. many had no belt issues, i had lots. did everything humanly possible... clutching, weights, motor mounts, slp torque stop, push arm, venting, belt aligning, gearing, break in, soap n water, 3 different types of belts, nothing could get me to go 100+ km on a belt. dealership blamed polaris, polaris blamed dealership setup. finally i asked polaris to tell me how to set it up then went to dealership and worked with the mechanic to set it up like the factory said. cords showing out the side means belt misalignment. the torque on the motor shifts them out of alignment and it doesn't take much. set the motor slightly out of alignment very slightly so when the motor torques it lines up perfectly, then allowed the secondary to float 1/4 inch inward of alignment. problem solved. finally, 14 belts in 1200 km, now 4-500 km per belt with slp mods, and nos. (i am running the new super belt also but ran the normal one with this setup and had good results.) the vibration issues we'rent on all sleds on polaris either, this was a result of poor tapers on the crank, set up a dial indicator and see how far out the clutch moves when turning it. some polaris's would change 7 thousanths in a revolution, i removed mine and put it right back on 3 times and the third time i was down to 1.5 thousanths in a revolution. vibration gone. your xp's are going to be great sleds, you'll get er figured out...good luck. at least u dont have a tank to start with like i did. cost me a pile to get under 500lbs.