Help me undertand... Plowing & Grooming...

[TNTCOPP]

X2 .........

In the case of Greenwater , the grooming has been fine as of late ( after the breakdowns ). I just do not understand how the " plowing " money ran dry after what , 6 weeks of plowing? They bid the contract , right? They bid it too low then. In " most " businesses , you bid a project , you're awarded it , you finish it regardless of overages.

There was a comment about not getting on the operator - but there are owner/operators. I also agree a lot with what Adrenaline has to say.

Not even sure what 1200cc was trying to say in the gramatically challenged statement.

IMO the bottom line is there just needs to be more $$ for grooming. Whether it's raising the tabs, pay at the trailhead or ???
6 months of grooming at 2/week minimum should be planned and then if we have a short season the excess should be carried to the following season or spent on improvements.
I would be happy to pay double or triple on tabs if I KNEW the $$ would go towards grooming/plowing and not into the general fund like happened in the early '90's.

 

[ericbigbore]

This crap gets really old! The reason there is tread after thread about grooming is the system in Washington is a joke!

We are not slamming the groomers we are slamming the system!!!

We need more money in the system period. I really don't care how they collect it but let's get it done.

We need to raise the price of tabs on sleds and charge a non-resident fee.

We don't need a study or a meeting or a suggestion box, we need MONEY!!!

We in Washington are so used to getting shafted by Olympia that all we do is bend over any more. If you keep voting the same people in to office you will keep getting the same results.

Who the he l l is in charge? Raise the tabs to 60 bucks and charge a non- resident fee of $25 and it's over!

 

[Brian Cook]

I really would like to attend that meeting but I work nights. If you go to the meeting could you post some of the topics discussed at the meeting.
I myself would be glad to apply cash for more grooming, I just don't think the gas tax idea is the way to go on this issue.
Cuzz242000@yahoo.com
Brian

 

[32nBelow]

You say the groomer should bid the contract for enough money to groom/plow the hole season.. The dollar amount of the contracts do not get set by the groomer the state sets the amount the groomer/plower works off that amount. The Prez is right that program did not get the miles when it went private, but there as been no new money in the system to bring it up to where it should be, plus it did not increase miles as the use when up over the years. With hourly rate increases, and lack of tab money all the groomers took a cut this year, we are luck the year as been pretty mellow or there would be a lot of programs out of money. It has been discussed what to do with less money/miles of grooming, some say put out the best product for as long as you can , some say drop frequency. one of the problems with dropping frequency is that the trail is that much more tore up which means it takes 2 or 3 passes to fix it in the long run it may take more time/money then if it was groomed more often. Some say only groom a Fri, Sat, most system are to big to groom then in one night, I agree that some areas need to be groomed on Fri,Sat, but the last 3 weekend with the new snow and sunny Friday's there were more people riding Fri, than on Sunday. This is just my .02 the system needs some work I think the idea of paying were you ride is a great one just don't know how to make it happen... Tim

 

[yammadog]

So, all the areas had cuts? How is it that Stampede/GC are still being groomed and has more miles and more riders? Is the operator the one that decides on when he wants to groom? Is the budget divided between areas by how many miles they have?

If the budget get's screwed with by the state, then I would think the local clubs of the areas would benefit the most with helping to get additional grooming paid for by user fees or discounted rates for members and grow the club membership numbers.

I'm most sick of hearing the people close to the groomers complain when, we, the customers are not happy with the performance of the system. Why be defensive? Do have some level of control? Do you want help? Budgets are being impacted in all areas of gov't and personal life. We can decide on what areas we worked harder to make things better. You groomerettes can join us to make it better or get a different job. Help us understand or get out of the way.

 

[ericbigbore]

So, all the areas had cuts? How is it that Stampede/GC are still being groomed and has more miles and more riders? Is the operator the one that decides on when he wants to groom? Is the budget divided between areas by how many miles they have?

If the budget get's screwed with by the state, then I would think the local clubs of the areas would benefit the most with helping to get additional grooming paid for by user fees or discounted rates for members and grow the club membership numbers.

I'm most sick of hearing the people close to the groomers complain when, we, the customers are not happy with the performance of the system. Why be defensive? Do have some level of control? Do you want help? Budgets are being impacted in all areas of gov't and personal life. We can decide on what areas we worked harder to make things better. You groomerettes can join us to make it better or get a different job. Help us understand or get out of the way.

Great fricken post! It's time to fix this system NOW!

 

[ruffryder]

You groomerettes can join us to make it better or get a different job. Help us understand or get out of the way.

dog, What clubs do you belong to? What meetings have you been to? How much time have you volunteered to snowmobiling this year?

You call them groomerettes, but it is mostly people that put in a lot of time of their own volunteering, going to meetings, trying to make the system work, trying to do the best they can... I can see how they are sick of internet jockies getting on here and thinking they can solve all the problems with a couple of posts and 2 hrs of thought.

If all you guys out there are sick of the way things are, join a fricken club, donate your "oh so precious" valuable time, and see what you can do.

Rant over....

 

[32nBelow]

Defensive??? Just giving out info that I know first hand. Help, I think that there as been a people asking for help on a way to solve this problem for a lot of years (there are a few that send a lot of there own time tryng to make it better) And YES some of then are even groomer owner/operators, I think if you do some checking most areas are getting tight on funds to make the season. The budget is divided up in a lot of ways miles of trails, number of users. The local clubs use to have a lot to do with expanding the trails or getting trails groomed more often but the fund have not been there. I feel that most of the groomer what to put out the best product ALL season. Tim

 

[sledkiller1]

Cant we all just get along? Its snowing! Shut up and go ride children!

 

[1200cc]

You groomerettes can join us to make it better or get a different job. Help us understand or get out of the way.

Groomerettes?? Please define that... You must talking about those a$$holes who go help the groomer when he breaks down, or help him change his tracks in the summer,or maybe those people who fly from the other side of the to lobby for more funds in Olympia... Those people?? Those damn volunteers???

The problem is clear lack of money and bad allocation of funds... Not sure if you should tell people to get out of the way its a joint effort and you need to encourage everyone to get on board...

Just an idea... I am the first to admit i get defensive, its only because of the time and work i have invested into this sport....

My apology if i am just in the way..

 

[yammadog]

dog, What clubs do you belong to? What meetings have you been to? How much time have you volunteered to snowmobiling this year?
.

Ruffy, don't start with me. I've stayed at more holiday inns than you've been unvirginized....

I'm not saying right or wrong, but if someone has an opinion that seems legit and they get put down for expressing it, I feel the need to say something. Heck, since sales are slow and I have more time, maybe I'll jump in and work the lobbying and politics more on the front than behind the lines.

As for your "internet jockies", takes one to know one and you my son are about as loud as they get. Someday your experience will catch your lips and keep them shut part time..or for the 2hrs it takes to form an opinion..maybe then you'll make more sense to more people. Whereas, I'm drunk when I hang out with you, so you make total sense to me!!!

 

[1200cc]

Heck, since sales are slow and I have more time, maybe I'll jump in and work the lobbying and politics more on the front than behind the lines.

Thank you we need more people like you in this sport and less Ruffyriders.....HAHA sorry Ruffy!!!

 

[Adrenaline Revolution]

dog, What clubs do you belong to? What meetings have you.........

Dog???

Welcome to Snowest Randy Jackson!

 

[yammadog]

Dog???

Welcome to Snowest Randy Jackson!

LMAO!!!!! you should see him in his bling when he brings his lady around to party......ha ha ha ha ha ha......

 

[1200cc]

LMAO!!!!! you should see him in his bling when he brings his lady around to party......ha ha ha ha ha ha......

I didnt know Ruffy liked girls??

 

[Adrenaline Revolution]

I didnt know Ruffy liked girls??

As long as they don't shave their legs and they must wear wool socks with sandals and they obviously need to have one leg a little shorter than the other so they can lean as far left as Ruffy does.


Sorry Ruffmiester!

 

[ericbigbore]

As long as they don't shave their legs and they must wear wool socks with sandals and they obviously need to have one leg a little shorter than the other so they can lean as far left as Ruffy does.


Sorry Ruffmiester!

Don't forget the puchulie oil.(sp?)

Ruffy bashing is always fun.

 

[ruffryder]

dog, What clubs do you belong to? What meetings have you been to? How much time have you volunteered to snowmobiling this year?

As for your "internet jockies", takes one to know one and you my son are about as loud as they get. Someday your experience will catch your lips and keep them shut part time..or for the 2hrs it takes to form an opinion..maybe then you'll make more sense to more people. Whereas, I'm drunk when I hang out with you, so you make total sense to me!!!

ha ha... I thought what happens in Fouled Plug stays in Fouled Plug?

Is that the long answer? I guess the short version is none, none, and none?

Ruffy bashing is always fun.

Seems like a common theme around here....

and less Ruffyriders.....HAHA sorry Ruffy!!!

Wow..... that hurt.... You might just get your wish...

 

[Seeyacop]

Ruffy-

Why do we need to join more clubs and go to meetings? If this accomplished anything why would these same issues keep coming up? If you are going to the meetings and you see the problems why isn't there a solution? You obviously are giving your input at these meetings so have you seen any progress? Would more people going matter if no one is willing to fix the system?

The key here is who has the authority to fix the system and how do we lobby them to do so?

Seems like a lot of the people on here are like me, we only want the roads groomed to get to the backcountry so why is it so hard to be able to collect a fee per sled at the snowparks like Baker that always run out of money? Seems to work well in Whistler.

I am all for raising tabs if I know the money will actually go where it is supposed to and these issues actually will be resolved.

 

[rmkrider82]

Well since anybobdy that has an opinion on here Get smashed ill feel free.
So maybe this Groomer at baker bid his contratct at such a high Dollar amount he is not only shafting the public becase we all know that it is a contact and he bid it hourly and Really how much do you think it costs him to run his equiptment well lets see 150 to 200 dollars an hour seems reasonable with an operator. Well why did he finish early up there, did he groom to much at first and then the snow hit well if im not mistaken we got
about a month with nothing but cold weather and sunny days his trails proably were not gettting hammered but he was hammering them, by doing what he did is probably the best lobbying for more money becuase now we the public get pisssed and return to state parks, and they then feel obligated because, believe it or not we (anyone who buys a snowpark permit) pays for everything that is associated to with winter recreation, and we pay someoone to manage this mess, so if we want more we lobby them, but they cant do anything becuase we are already maxed out when it comes to money from the Government so maybe we should raise snow park permits and that we be self sufficient funds, JUST AN IDEA, and about the skiers they pay 60 bucks for theres and they bit** so people that dont know will probably do the same. What the groomer did at baker is just a form of lobbying and he proably could have made his funds last but he wants more, dont blame him who couldnt us some more money to play with.