Help me undertand... Plowing & Grooming...

[JETJOHNSO]

well all I have to say is >>>>>>

Is it a perfect system , NO, but it's not as bad as you all say and think, The groomers DO get to make their own schedule with the help of the local club or grooming cordinator. State Parks DOES NOT DICTATE TO THEM WHEN, WHERE OR HOW TO GROOM. They recieve so much money to groom for the season. Sure, it's not enough but they are supposed to stretch it out for the 4 months. They ( the groomers ) make their schedule based on a 16 week program. They figure out how to make it "span" the 16 weeks. You cant blame state parks, gregwhore or anyone else other than mother nature. The groomer and the cordinator should sit down and devise a shcedule based on the 16 weeks. They know up front how much they can spend in each of his area's and how many times a week they can run. Some area's once a week works, some area's 2 or 3. Some area's 1 every couple weeks works. As I have said many times, Mt Baker is not the only area short on money according to the state's formula and miles. They dont have to groom when conditions are unsafe, not useable or deemed a "waste of time and money". The system has taken drastic hits the last few years mostly because of lack of funds. Who in their right mind thinks we could have someone at the trail heads or snoparks "collecting" money from the users 7 days a week?? Thats just not going to happen, for every rider that donated, 7 others would not. And snowmobiling is not just a weekend thing anymore, We usually ride thursday's or fridays and I am amazed at how many people are up there on a week day. Trails do need to be groomed during the week in most areas. just my take on all this by someone who has been around and involved for a long time.

 

[Adrenaline Revolution]

Who in their right mind thinks we could have someone at the trail heads or snoparks "collecting" money from the users 7 days a week?? Thats just not going to happen, for every rider that donated, 7 others would not. Trails do need to be groomed during the week in most areas.

First things first.
I guess I'm one of those who is NOT in my "right mind" because this is done in Canada and it works from what I hear.
No one suggested that fees should be collected 7 days a week but on the busy springtime weekends when Baker is one of the only places left to ride I would think MANY people would be willing to contribute DIRECTLY to the groomer himself or someone who is collecting for him.
Which brings me to the other issue.
Can the groomer work there, on that road, paid by the users without the forest circus getting involved?
You've been involved for a very long time so I hope you can help with an answer to this.
Seems like a "Win-Win" to me.
The groomer can make some extra cash and the folks who ride that day get awesome trails in to their favorite spot.

For the human waste who would ride right by and not contribute...?
I would think peer pressure or natural selection would take care of them.

Again, we're talking about AFTER the funds run dry from our irresponsible government.
Until I can be GUARANTEED exactly where my tab money and permit money is spent and how much of each dollar that is supposed to cover grooming actually goes to grooming is accounted for I am not willing to give those thieves in Olympia one extra more dime of my money.
I would, however, be willing to pay $50 to $100 per sled, per year to the groomers themselves to do a better, more well planned and scheduled grooming.
If everybody did this we would have beautiful trails all season long and the groomers would actually make enough $$$ in profits and to keep some of those machines running reliably.

We're just brainstorming here people.
Unbunch the panties.

 

[ruffryder]

Can the groomer work there, on that road, paid by the users without the forest circus getting involved?

Yes, the NWGC has had donations enough to get the groomer out after money has run out. They have also had added monies to help with road clearing and plowing out the parking lots to a larger size when the snow levels stay low for an extended period of time (This year and last, up at Baker).

I would think this would be the same for all locations.

 

[deepdiver]

This is the 04-05 contract. I dont have a recent one but they dont change drastically from year to year. WA state is pretty specific as to when grooming has to continue through unless an extension is granted.

1
State of Washington
Contract Award Notice
Contract title: Trail Grooming, over the snow, Winter Recreation Program for State
Parks & Recreation Commission
Purpose: Contract Award Notice & Contract Administration Assignment
Original award date: December 23, 2004
Current contract period: December 23, 2004 through: December 22, 2005
Contract term: Not to exceed six years or 12/22/10
Contract type: This contract is designated as mandatory use.
SCOPE OF CONTRACT This contract is awarded to single contractor
_____ Primary user agency Washington State Parks & Recreation Commission
Contractor: Contact
This page contains key contract features. Find detailed information on succeeding pages. For
more information on this contract, or if you have any questions, please contact your local
agency Purchasing Office, or you may contact our office at the numbers listed below.
State Procurement Officer: Connie Stacy Assistant: Gretchen Puckett
Phone Number: (360) 902-7435 Phone Number: (360) 902-7437
Fax Number: (360) 586-2426 Fax Number: (360) 586-2426
Email: cstacy a ga.wa.gov Email gpucket(Uga.wa.gov
Visit our Internet site: http://www.ga.wa.gov/purchase
2
Products/Services available: Trail grooming services, Snow mobile
Ordering procedures: Contact the contractor and develop a mutually agreeable
schedule in accordance with the terms of the contract
Related product contracts: 15804 (Sanitation Facilities) and 15904 (Snow removal)
Payment terms: __________ Approx. fifteen days after receipt of a properly completed invoice
________ Contract pricing: See attached
Term worth: Approximately $51,000.00/one season
Current participation: $0.00 MBE $0.00 WBE $51,000.00 OTHER $0.00 EXEMPT
MBE 0% WBE 0% OTHER 100% EXEMPT 0%
Recovered material: Not applicable
NOTES:
I. Contract Terms: This Document includes by reference all terms and conditions published in the
original IFB including Standard Terms and Conditions, and Definitions, included in the
Competitive Procurement Standards published by OSP (as Amended).
SPECIAL CONDITIONS:
1. Scope: the purpose of this contract is to provide snow mobile trail grooming services on National
Forest, State and private lands as requested by Washington State Parks & Recreation Commission,
for use by winter enthusiasts.
Contact has been awarded for the ________ area as identified herein for one season with options to
extend for additional five seasons of approximately the same duration. Extensions will be based
upon mutual agreement by Washington State Parks & Recreation Commission and contractor.
Total contract extensions may not exceed six years.
Contract Administration: ongoing contract administration has been assigned to the Washington
State Parks and Recreation Commission.
3
SPECIFICATIONS
The primary purpose of trail grooming is to smooth high use trails.
Contractor shall be required to provide specified trail grooming services on designated trails on
national forest, private and state lands.
The snow groomer and equipment utilized must be capable of performing/meeting the requirements
of the "Groomed Trail Standards" and "Grooming Equipment Standards" described herein..
Grooming Equipment Standards (every snow groomer must be equipped as follows
S
a) To groom at least a ten foot wide trail in a single pass for the safety of the snow mobilers. The
blade must be greater than the width of the track and the width of the drag in order to be able to
pull snow from the outside of the trail to fill the moguls on the inside of the corners
b) The tracks of the pulling equipment shall each be at least 36" wide for two track machines and
26"for four track machines to provide the proper flotation for soft snow conditions.
c) Snow groomer must be tiller capable.
d) Shall have a minimum ten foot wide tiller, drag or compactor bar to achieve at least a 10 foot
finished surface
e) Two way radio, cellular or satellite phone, providing constant communication. Satellite phone will
be provided by Washington State Parks & Recreation Commission.
f) 24 unit first aid and survival kit
g) at least two top mounted rotating beacons or strobe lights, and back up lights (two flood and two
spot)
h) flares and other warning devices in case of breakdown
i) back up alarm
j) at least four halogen headlights
k) an accurate working hour meter
1) adequate fuel capacity for twelve hours of continuous operation without refueling.
m) ability to operate at speeds of up to seven mph with the grooming implements (tiller, drag, or
compactor bar) in operation.
Groomer Operator Standards (every snow groomer operator must
a) operate equipment in a safe and appropriate manner with grooming speeds not to exceed
seven mph
b) be courteous and considerate with dealing with the public
c) report to the Washington State Parks Snowmobile Program and the local grooming coordinator
any hazardous conditions (equipment breakdown on groomed trail, downed trees, etc). If
equipment must be left, it shall be left in as safe a place as possible for the safety of snow
mobilers using the trail
d) use flares and other warning devices to warn trail users of equipment hazards
4
e) be CPR and first aid certified
f) complete required operation log forms and other documentation as required (logs are to be
clean and legible)
Grooming Schedule:
a) Bidder's equipment and operator(s) shall be available within one hour for scheduled groomings.
b) in coordination with the local grooming council and prior to the start of the trail grooming
season, the contractor will develop a tentative weekly grooming schedule for the grooming
season. The tentative schedule shall be based on a sixteen week season and the dollars/miles
recommended by the Snowmobile Advisory Council as described in the contract. The contractor
shall submit a tentative weekly grooming schedule to the State Parks Snowmobile Program
administrator as requested. The administrator shall make revisions only after consultation with
the local grooming council and contractor.
c) General grooming shall be performed Monday through Thursday with a scheduled Friday and/or
Saturday grooming. All trunk trails should be groomed Friday and Saturday for Saturday and
Sunday use. At least one main snowmobile trail loop should be Friday and Saturday. Groom
trails for the majority of users recognizing the specific needs of each area as specified in the
project funding application. Grooming shall begin after December 1 and end by April 1 each
season, unless snow conditions dictate otherwise and any additional grooming has been
approved by the Washington State Parks Winter Recreation Program Administrator. Trail
segments or loops that are to be groomed should be prioritized for grooming by the local
grooming council – keeping at least one segment or loop groomed during the week. Sufficient
time should be scheduled weekly for equipment preventative service, maintenance and repairs
according to the manufacturer's recommendations (including shop and field maintenance and
repairs).
d) The contractor shall thoroughly complete the Daily Trail Grooming Log, and other
documentation as required, and submit copies on a weekly basis, by fax or mail, to the grooming
coordinator for accountability purposes. Original logs shall be submitted by the contractor to
Washington State Parks Winter Recreation Program on or before the tenth day of the month
following that in which the services were performed.
e) Washington State Parks Snowmobile Program shall provide supervision of the contractor. The
local Grooming Council shall provide the coordination of the grooming schedule and is in the
event of a schedule change, the contractor shall notify the grooming coordinator as well as the
agency for web updates. The final determination of safe grooming conditions of any trail is
reserved to the contractor. Unsatisfactory grooming may be subject to re-grooming at the
contractor's expense after consultation with the local trail grooming council coordinated
through the State Parks Winter Recreation Program Administrator.
f) The contractor shall attend and participate in the Agency sponsored groomer operator workshop
on an annual basis for as long as the Agency contracts with the contractor for trail grooming
services.
g) Volunteer groups, clubs, associations or individuals should be encouraged to supplement
the grooming programs by performing activities that have been approved by the local
grooming council
h) Each local grooming council member should be encouraged to ride with his or her local
groomer operator at least once per season.
5
i) To ensure quality of work and safety of snowmobilers and groomer operators, grooming shall
be conducted in conformance with the applicable State Parks and Recreation Commission
Snowmobile Grooming Policy, incorporated by reference into the resulting contract.
Groomed Trail Standards (trails shall be
a) implement groom program only after there is a twelve to eighteen inch base at trailhead
b) groomed to at least ten feet in width
c) groomed before and after heavy use period (e.g. weekends, holidays)
d) groom whenever the moguls are extreme to eliminate irregular snow surfaces
e) groom with no berm or ridges in the trail

 

[BakerSleder]

Well why did he finish early up there, did he groom to much at first and then the snow hit well if im not mistaken we got
about a month with nothing but cold weather and sunny days his trails proably were not gettting hammered but he was hammering them

Baker is rode almost everyday it is open. Even on those cold sunny days. Here is the answer to your question. HE RAN OUT OF MONEY thats why he is done. Most people dont work for free. And no he doesn't groom every single day. He has four other areas to groom, beside Mt. Baker.

 

[deepdiver]

05 groomer contract cont.....

f) snowdrifts and downed trees removed to provide a smooth trail surface
g) all curves shall be flat to provide safe and comfortable travel
h) do not groom when it is raining, in avalanche conditions, heavy winds or blue ice conditions
Other contractor duties:
a) under direction of the land owner(s), install appropriate trail signs and replace signs that have
been removed or vandalized. Signs are to remain in place for as long as there is enough snow for
users to recreate. The contractor shall request adequate quantities of such signs from the Agency
and the latter shall provide such signs at no cost to the contractor.
A Trail Grooming Log shall be posted at each groomed trailhead and shall be completed each
time the groomer passes by to inform the users when a trail was last groomed or if a trail is in the
process of being groomed.
Sno-Park bulletin boards shall be installed by the contractor at each groomed trailhead and shall
be inspected each time the groomer passes through. Any required upkeep shall be completed or
reported to the local grooming coordinator immediately. The contractor shall ensure that each
bulletin board sign includes a map of the local groomed trail network, a notice of the local
Grooming Council and the meeting schedule and location and a telephone number to call for
emergencies including the location of the nearest telephone.
b) quality of work, miles of trail groomed in a specified time and completion of assignment will
be monitored by the local grooming council.
c) The contractor shall develop and provide groomed trail maps upon request and at all times
during the active grooming season at the trailhead locations
d) The contractor shall groom each individual trail only after completion of a, b and c above. The
contractor shall discontinue trail grooming activity on any trail not signed as per a and b above
during any portion of the snow season. The contractor shall re-establish grooming activity
only after completion of a and b above.
e) The contractor shall provide updated trail grooming information to the Washington State Parks
Winter Recreation Program beginning upon contract commencement date and end upon contract
completion date of each season (approx. 12/01 through 04/01) Using the 2004-2005 Snowmobile
Sno-Park brochure, provide grooming schedule updates on a daily basis or when conditions
change. Options for providing updates:
-telephone (leave a voice message) (360) 586-6643
-fax daily grooming log (360) 586-6651, email: winter@parks.wa.gov
6
Trail grooming information will be available to the users at www.parks.wa.gov Winter
Recreation, Snowmobile or Non-motorized Sports Sno-Parks locations. The information will be
listed under each Sno-Park.
f) The contractor or designee shall attend and participate in the monthly local grooming council
meetings bringing the logs for review by the public. The contractor, in cooperation with the local
grooming council chair, request that the Winter Recreation Program receives meeting minutes
from each grooming council meeting held. The contractor shall have the ability to effectively
and professionally communicate at these meetings.
g) Under direction of the local grooming council, the local trail grooming coordinator bases the
grooming schedule on the local trail grooming council recommendations. Deviation of the
planned grooming schedule may only occur with prior consultation with the local trail grooming
coordinator.
At the end of the project, the contractor shall file with the agency a completed Project Summary
Report no later than April 30 of each season, or within fifteen working days of termination of
this contract if sooner. The contractor shall also complete the 2004-2005 (or applicable) Trail
Grooming Season Totals logs, as provided by the agency hereto, and which by this reference is
incorporated into this contract. Final payment may be held until the project summary report and
the trail grooming season totals log have been received by the State Parks Winter Recreation
Program.
7
Washington State Parks & Recreation Commission Snowmobile Grooming Policy (12/02/04)
or most current policy adopted by the Washington State Parks Winter Program Recreation Program
It is the policy of the Washington State Parks Winter Recreation Program that scheduled trail
grooming be conducted between the hours of 2:00 p.m., ending at 4:00 a.m., for maximum set up time.
THE MAJORITY OF GROOMING IS TO BE DONE DURING THE HOURS OF DARKNESS.
Guidelines for grooming outside the Snowmobile Trail Grooming Policy hours, with notification of
the grooming coordinator and Washington State Parks:
A. Mechanical breakdown, allowing the groomer to catch back up
to normal schedule.
B. Search and Rescue (SARS).
C. Catastrophic storm damage - trail crews needed.
D. the equipment could be damaged.
E. Pre approved longer trips (trips which take longer than 12 hours to complete due to the length
of trails).
Grooming Contract Conditions
• all grooming contracts will specify the requirement and agreement to groom during the
specified night hours
• no contractor will sign a contract without first explaining to the groomer operator(s)
the requirement to perform such work at night
• all groomer contractors must certify by their signature on their bid that no one will groom
without foreknowledge of this requirement, the groomer operator(s) ability to do the work safely,
and in consideration of the safety of others when they agree to groom at night
8
SATELLITE PHONE POLICY
Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission agree that the contractor has permission to use
the satellite phone (unit) under the following terms and conditions:
1. Compensation: in view of the benefits provided to State Park's Winter Recreation Program,
no fee is charged to the contractor for the use of the unit.
2. Termination-Return of Unit: upon termination of this agreement for any reason, the contractor
shall return the unit via hand delivery by the contractors representative or a tracking mail service to the
State Parks Winter Recreation Program office within fifteen days after the last grooming of the season
has been performed and no later than April 30th of the year of the agreement.
3. Use of Unit: the unit shall be used only for life threatening emergencies related to the winter
recreation program contract. The contractor shall not add additional services, devices or attachments
to the units without prior permission in writing through US Mail, in writing by fax, or in writing by
email from the State Parks Winter Recreation Program representative. State Parks will activate the
unit approximately November 15 and deactivate approximately April 15. If the unit is used, a
satellite phone log must be filled out and returned to WA State Parks Winter Recreation Program
representatives by April 30th, or within fifteen working days of termination of this agreement if
sooner.
4. Maintenance and Cleaning: the contractor will perform all routine maintenance. and repairs
according to the instructions provided in the unit manual in order to keep the unit assigned to the
contractor, together with cigarette and wall unit plugs, in a safe, sanitary and usable condition.
5. Damage: the contractor shall not damage the unit in any way. In the event of damage to the
unit, the contractor shall arrange with the State Parks representative for approximate repairs of the
unit prior to such repairs being made and at its own expense, pay for such repairs. If the unit is
deemed beyond repair, the contractor, at its own expense, shall reimburse the state for the entire
replacement cost of the unit.
6. Loss or Stolen: State Parks shall have no responsibility for the loss of the unit. Upon loss of the
unit, the contractor shall report such loss immediately to Global Star and notify State Parks
representative within twenty four hours. Global Star Customer Service: (877) 728-7466. The
contractor shall reimburse State Parks for the replacement of the unit.
7. Condition at End of Agreement Term: the entire unit including satellite phone, cigarette and
wall attachment, must be returned with the carry pouch and phone manual to State Parks Winter
Recreation Program, PO Box 42662, 7150 Cleanwater Lane, Olympia, WA 98504-2662 by April 15.
The final trail grooming payment under winter contract will be held until the above items are returned.
9
TRAIL GROOMING AREA & PRICING
Area: -Map Areas 22 - 24 using the 2003-2004 Snowmobile Sno-Park map. -Miles
in Trail System: 185
-Trail Segments are groomed
-Expected miles for season: 2595
Equipment Tucker 2000D 192 hp or equivalent
Hourly Rate for Equipment & Operator:
10
CONTRACT REQUIREMENTS
LIQUIDATED DAMAGES
The state has an immediate requirement for the services specified herein.
Liquidated damages will be assessed in the amount of actual damages incurred by the state as a
result of Contractor's failure to perform herein.

11
SPECIAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS
PRICING AND ADJUSTMENT
Pricing is all inclusive of any and all costs to provide service for the
area bid. During contract period:
pricing shall remain firm and fixed for at least the current season
identified Adjustments in pricing will:
be considered after firm fixed price period on a pass through basis only. A minimum of forty
five calendar days advance written notice of price increase is required which is to be

 

[1200cc]

Yeah this doesn't add up... If he has to groom when the trail is rough then he should groomer everyday. Right? Well if he does that then the money wont even last a month?? So anyone have a solution?? People will either b!tch about him not grooming enough, or b!tch that the money is gone to soon....

 

[never_to_much_powder]

I have an answer for everyone LETS just be happy that they greenies havent closed all of baker to snowmobiling. Just ride and have a good time. Yes the guy thats grooming needs to budget himself better but he ran out of money. Lets all start attending meetings to find out what we can do to get more money. Heres another idea lets go to olimpia and protest like everyone else does and tell them they are hurting our fellings and get more money

 

[1200cc]

We could do that.. WSSA does a march on Olympia and everyone hooks up there trailers and sleds and goes down and plugs up the streets. Last time they did it there were people backed up for miles on I-5.. I would be in.

 

[Good to Go]

Threads like this crack me up, people that really have no idea how the system works thros out all kinds of ideas of how it should be done, goes riding maybe twice a month and just thinks that it should be smooth for them or the whole twice a week grooming or only on weekends bla bla you think a grooming machine is going to take 3 days worth of 100 sleds and take all of them studder bumbs out. on one pass, like he is going to just get in and get out, well what if it takes 2 and three times to go over a trail to make it smooth. The The whole pay as you go plan what a bunch of crap, like everyone is just going to be all ok with that maybe we can turn our trails into HWY 167 or the Narrows the good to go effect and that way nobody feels left out and when the parking lot is full they can charge 25 bucks a sled to go down a trail......... yeah that makes sense The system works it just needs more money XC skiers pay for their parkig permit and think they should have a guy there to valet park it for them, this program is headed down hill becuase of all of the bit***** that makes it way to state parks about the bad grooming you think by calling them, on the guys at baker is going to accomplish something like they are going to call him and make him groom, no they get pissed off becuase he didnt budget himself to last the whole season, sounds like he wanted to go to mexico a little early, He did a great job until he ran out maybe he Was going out to much during the weeks and should have backed off a little to carry us til no when the snow hits.

Dude, if you're going to keep using my name, at least learn to write so that it's coherent. Gawd, that was painful.

We could do that.. WSSA does a march on Olympia and everyone hooks up there trailers and sleds and goes down and plugs up the streets. Last time they did it there were people backed up for miles on I-5.. I would be in.

^^^^I see grasshopper been busy the past couple of days... Allow me time to formulate my thoughts on this subject before I chime in.





NOT!!!!

 

[1200cc]

Good to go!!! Good to see you back on here! My backup has arrived.

 

[nikeholley]

Lots of good discussion here...

Two things...

1) There are clubs full of people right now at club meetings..??.. there are people (sledders) at the grooming meetings..??.. there are people (sledders) at the Olympia meetings (obviously asking for more money)..??..

so what will more people (sledders) at these meetings accomplish..??.. is the assumption that more is better..??.. a stronger front..??.. unified and all that..??.. I can't imagine that there would be any 'new' ideas come of this... we'd be asking for the same thing that those of you that currently go to the meetings are asking...

please explain if I'm missing something... I/we can get involved, but if the message is the same as it has been, then what will change..??..

Also, I can't imagine that a huge flock of people in green, yellow, red & blue jackets showing up at a groomer's meeting will do anything but frustrate/excite the state employees and the groomer guy...

2) it seems that there are a few that are responding here that really know some good info/insight into what the numbers are, and the system is... we should ask the well informed for advice... I would really like to hear what can be done to help/make a difference from some of them...

Nike

 

[Good to Go]

Good to go!!! Good to see you back on here! My backup has arrived.

back at ya...

Well.... In a nut shell, it's a bureaucracy and it's like pulling teeth without having the patient.

Everyone's point on here has a slice of reality in it...which translates to...I'm not sure.

Of course it takes getting involved, but as some have pointed out, that clearly doesn't work very well. (No, that doesn't mean not to...bare with me). The one thing every bureaucracy shares is "self-serving". It's just the nature. Oh, and snails pace. Oh, and lest I forget, "use it or lose it" and "it's always been done this way". Oh yea, and "there more to it" and "well, you see, it's complicated".

In the mean time, things don't change and or get done. It's the nature of the beast.

Some folks on here are tired of beating the dead horse. But let's understand why...it isn't working. Ydog has a good point too... perhaps time to try something else.

I believe Nike is trying to seriously understand this issue. Good on them.

My 2 cents.... I'm glad someone wants to take the horns, I don't have the energy. When NWGC has asked for paper ponies, I've had no problem. That's how I sleep at night with this. Do I want/trust/would even consider allowing the State to raise my fees...? Hell no. Would I gladly pay more? Already answered that.

And you all know what I think of the business side of this grooming.. For the sake of the continued discussion though, it is important to separate out our feelings between 'groomers' (the folks running the machines) and the company's (often the same, you bet, but it's the business side) and the program. Which is where the majority of the complaints lay.

So now I've said a whole lot of...nothing. It's a tired discussion no doubt.

Now, I need more...

 

[NWGooser]

it seems that there are a few that are responding here that really know some good info/insight into what the numbers are, and the system is... we should ask the well informed for advice... I would really like to hear what can be done to help/make a difference from some of them...
Nike

I've been sitting back and watching this monster grow. Seems to me that this is the foundation of the original post. Not trashing the groomers, but asking for info and how can a person get involved or be helpful. I feel the same way. We know that there are issues but what is it specifically that we, as a group or individuals, can do to help?

Lots of strong opinions and I love to see the passion. That's what is so great about being in America, everybody has the right to their wrong opinion

Seriously though, what can I do to help. I'd be willing to bet that Nike will be right there helping too.



Oh ya... Good to Go - you still kill me

 

[nikeholley]

hear hear..!!..

 

[alleycat]

Show of hands how many think ALL the money from the tabs goes to grooming ? When you give the government cash they put some numbers on a dart board then they play till they hit the number they can agree on . And then they light the rest on fire . We could pay $1000 for tabs and the problem well be the same ! we need to elect a Governor that rides .

 

[nikeholley]

Wouldn't it be nice...



.

 

[1200cc]

Hey Jet Johnson i was wondering if you would compare some stats with me. Baker gets $56,417 for 152.8 miles (actually 220 miles times frequency), for 16,000 sleds a year.. What is your areas budget and miles??


Thank you.

 

[1200cc]

Show of hands how many think ALL the money from the tabs goes to grooming ? When you give the government cash they put some numbers on a dart board then they play till they hit the number they can agree on . And then they light the rest on fire . We could pay $1000 for tabs and the problem well be the same ! we need to elect a Governor that rides .

Yeah it does go to grooming. Minus some admin fees. The Government has attempted to take out of it before but WSSA has caught them. Also the whole winter recreation office has all new people.

 

[JETJOHNSO]

here's what I do know.

Unfortunately the meetings ect dont work, I've been to more meetings than Gregwhore has moles. We do not have enough money in our winter rec program to support the miles and frequency we all need. WSSA has taken the stand to fight Olympia for more money out of the gas tax. We currently get about 20 cents a gallon X 135 gallons per sled X 32 to 35,000 sleds registered. Plus our license fee's. WSSA (and all of us I am sure) feel's we should get more out of the gas tax. This has been a long up hill battle with not a lot of headway. Many of us have been after them to go for the License fee increase also, WSSA has opposed this for years, they dont think you all would want a license fee increase, I personally dont know anyone that would not be thrilled to increase our license fee's to put more money on [/COLOR]the snow. We need both, We pay to play, (I've said that alot but it's the truth) Nobody in Olympia "steals" our money, we have dedicated snowmobilers on the state parks advisory boare who decide for the entire state where, when, how and who to our money is spent. Send an email to Dee Alred , current president of WSSA, tell her you support a license fee increase, DELIA.ALRED@WSSA.US My self and many others have brought it up so many times I cant tell you. The system will work but you have to understand , we just dont collect enough money to run the entire state at the level that we would like to. IT'S JUST THAT SIMPLE, There are some area's that probably get a little more than they should, but I'm sure they will tell you they dont get enough, Like every other area in the state. email DEE and voice your concerns, and by the way, Stampede pass / Easton gets a little over $100,000 a season for the largest and most crowed snoparks in the state, Yep, we dont get enough up there either but we budget it out to make it work as best we can.