Have your balls dropped (smart carb)

[the gman]

Summit I would like to clarifie some issues. This thread is to address the smarty and the green floaties and other issues. You state the smarty made your bike vibrate more. Come on, realy, how can this be. Maybe you have too much compression and the vibration is you running to lean, detonation. You say you installed the twirl on your smarty and all was not good. Was it the smarty or something else. Going from the .076 to the .080 to try and cure your detonation is the wrong way. Also running fuel builder I think is a mistake. Mix up sum race fuel or lower your compression. I have tried both and race fuel works better, or lots of fuel will mask it sometimes. Anyway just wanted to clarifie, can't see a smarty creating vibration, but then I can't see a rubber hose making power either??

 

[wwillf01]

I will say I have the 38mm on my ported cr500 with a primer... I have had zero issues starting... my bike is always stored outside... it is highly ported and I run the q7 rod about 70ish clicks. My bike does vibrate and I would not know if it worse than a stock carb because mine never came with one... it was pretty wrecked before I restored it. I did loose a head gasket and got to take a look at the piston.... no detonation everything seems good.. I mix up to 105 with 110 and non ethanol regular... I run one on my 300 also but only on dirt... it also works like a charm... I find it runs cleaner than the lectron that I had previously ......

 

[mtn-doo]

Here is a cool article by Motocross Action Magazine. This is a 330 I built and was raced by MCA. Daryl Erchland of MCA raced it and finished nearly 1/2 a lap ahead of second place in his heat race against modded 450's. He got tangled up with the pack in the first corner of the main and had to pass the field to get back up front. On the final lap he was making a pass for second, tore a foot peg off the guy he was passing, both crashed and I believe he finished 4th or 5th overall. Very intense and very fun. This bike is a sister build. I put both of them together exactly the same. 330 kit and 40MM Smart Carb. She's a screamer. Lots of cool pic's and a great article by Motocross Action Magazine. Check it out.

 

[wwillf01]

Am I missing a link?

 

[M5-]

I've seen it with my own eyes and I've ridden the pulse, there is no comparison. Even between my non pulse PWK and SBs pulsed PWK there is a huge difference in the smoothness, same carb. The pulse setup makes the power delivery much more linear and takes away that open/close on/off surge caused by the reeds which IMO is why the pulse is superior as far as vibrations are concerned, that back charge has somewhere to go rather than slamming into the closed reeds. It delivers more power throughout the rpm range, its not like adding a turbo but it just fills things in and smooths them out. Its really quite impressive. I'm sure the Smarty is a fine product but for the bolt it tune it and go product it's advertised as, there looks to be way too much dicking around to interest me. Breaking in a carb, I mean really? Jetting a standard PWK is easy so why spend a bunch of money you don't need to. I don't get it sorry.


M5

 

[mtn-doo]

Yes, a tightly machined Billet carb body needs some initial polishing. They are sealed and tight when new, just like your new engine. They need a little brake in time. The pwk is cast and soooo loose and sloppy we couldn't wrap our mind around "braking one in". Take the D-slide out of your pwk and test it out. They flop around loosely inside. That is why fuel economy is so poor with a conventional carb. They need a ton of fuel to compensate for all the air leaks. We just jetted them until they ran good and away we went. It's worked for decades but it's very old and crude technology. I guess that's why Lectron came along, then efi, then APT. Folks looking to improve the old fuel delivery system.

 

[mtn-doo]

Here's the Motocross Action link. Scroll down the page a ways and see their Snow bike article. Pretty Cool, "The KTM 330 with the 40MM Smart Carb was their favorite", and they rode them all !!! wow

http://motocrossactionmag.com/more-...sents-mxas-mid-week-report-by-daryl-ecklund-2

 

[summitboy]

U have it wrong. I started on the .76 because other 500 Smarty users were reporting deto on the .80. That .76 needle was terrible. Wouldnt start very well even hot. As per APT I worked back towards the .80 and all the updates. I had deto instantly at 3/4 throttle. I asked around and was told fuel builder may cure it which it did. However the bike would not start cold. Still would never idle.

The carb was so inconsistant. One minute it seemed like it was ok. Next minute it was so flooded, and fuel pouring out the tail pipe like a fire hose. At WOT it worked like it should for the most part. Below WOT is where i had all my grief. I dont have time to wait for the fixes they now claim to have. I know guys with 300's waiting for needles as the season passes by. I waited alomst a season for the Smarty plus its updates.

A friend took a Smarty to a race and couldnt even get it started. They towed the bike behind a truck for 3 miles and it wouldnt run. Put a stock pwk carb on and it fired first kick and ran excellent. He has done more side by side testing of the Pulse and Smarty than anyone. Even he said the Smarty needed adjusting throughout the day for humidity/temp.

I went to the Pulse to try something different. I spent all last season messing with needles and testing. I like to ride not tune. Does the Pulse make more peak HP than a Smarty or a PWK, who knows. I can tell you it is way smoother than my Smarty. It is the air across the venturi that makes it this way. Doesnt travel back and forth like a conventional carb does. I changed my pilot and my main on the way up the trail first day with it and have not touched it thus far. The airscrew adjusts the fuel across the entire range. Its simple.

Am i trying to sell Pulse ? Hardly. I dont care what u run. Im just telling my experience. I believe the Smarty issues are very bike specific. 500 is/was one of them. The KTM 380 was another. Have they updated and supported their customers, absolutely. Would i recommend the carb, maybe on a 300. Would i buy another one, prob not.

 

[wwillf01]

I've seen it with my own eyes and I've ridden the pulse, there is no comparison. Even between my non pulse PWK and SBs pulsed PWK there is a huge difference in the smoothness, same carb. The pulse setup makes the power delivery much more linear and takes away that open/close on/off surge caused by the reeds which IMO is why the pulse is superior as far as vibrations are concerned, that back charge has somewhere to go rather than slamming into the closed reeds. It delivers more power throughout the rpm range, its not like adding a turbo but it just fills things in and smooths them out. Its really quite impressive. I'm sure the Smarty is a fine product but for the bolt it tune it and go product it's advertised as, there looks to be way too much dicking around to interest me. Breaking in a carb, I mean really? Jetting a standard PWK is easy so why spend a bunch of money you don't need to. I don't get it sorry.


M5

I agree there is tinkering initially... but for me and the three 2 strokes we have in our family fleet once I set the the smart carb and get it running I don't touch it again... so for me it is a pure laziness factor... many times a year you will be riding at 8000 and above on wheels and another day you will be down to 3000 it could be 30 degrees in the morning and them 80 by midday....... I just got sick of fooling around with kids and wife's bike to get it running right... maybe one day they will be able to do it themselves but life's short and I rather ride longer don't get me wrong the pulse sounds interesting especially if it makes it less susceptible to this conditions... but just the stock carb for me at least is a pain in the arse.... that is my 2 cents.

 

[wwillf01]

U have it wrong. I started on the .76 because other 500 Smarty users were reporting deto on the .80. That .76 needle was terrible. Wouldnt start very well even hot. As per APT I worked back towards the .80 and all the updates. I had deto instantly at 3/4 throttle. I asked around and was told fuel builder may cure it which it did. However the bike would not start cold. Still would never idle.

The carb was so inconsistant. One minute it seemed like it was ok. Next minute it was so flooded, and fuel pouring out the tail pipe like a fire hose. At WOT it worked like it should for the most part. Below WOT is where i had all my grief. I dont have time to wait for the fixes they now claim to have. I know guys with 300's waiting for needles as the season passes by. I waited alomst a season for the Smarty plus its updates.

A friend took a Smarty to a race and couldnt even get it started. They towed the bike behind a truck for 3 miles and it wouldnt run. Put a stock pwk carb on and it fired first kick and ran excellent. He has done more side by side testing of the Pulse and Smarty than anyone. Even he said the Smarty needed adjusting throughout the day for humidity/temp.

I went to the Pulse to try something different. I spent all last season messing with needles and testing. I like to ride not tune. Does the Pulse make more peak HP than a Smarty or a PWK, who knows. I can tell you it is way smoother than my Smarty. It is the air across the venturi that makes it this way. Doesnt travel back and forth like a conventional carb does. I changed my pilot and my main on the way up the trail first day with it and have not touched it thus far. The airscrew adjusts the fuel across the entire range. Its simple.

Am i trying to sell Pulse ? Hardly. I dont care what u run. Im just telling my experience. I believe the Smarty issues are very bike specific. 500 is/was one of them. The KTM 380 was another. Have they updated and supported their customers, absolutely. Would i recommend the carb, maybe on a 300. Would i buy another one, prob not.

Do you know if the pulse is made for smaller bikes say 65's?... what altitude change are you getting before having jetting issues .

 

[the gman]

My observation. I bought my timbersled for playing in the trees. End of story. Thought about going to McCall, was told, come and race, it's just a fun event. Glad I bailed as getting bumped to pass, getting a foot peg tore off by some jack ss just so he could win??? No thanks. Even cutting corners. Nope I will stick with my little 300. Now back to our discussion

 

[summitboy]

Sorry im not the Pulse expert. Call And talk to Ron or Adam Millar. He is very interesting to talk to about carbs. Once the baseline is set its just a simple adjustment turn of the airscrew. It affects the entire fuel circuit. Pulse isnt anywhere near susceptible to alt/temp change as a regular PWK. I start at 1800ft and run to 7000 ft no change in jetting. I start with the airscrew full rich and then have my baseline set for 2 turns out at 6500ft. Then 1/4-1/2 turn throught out the day for temp. If you want to discuss the Pulse more, maybe add to the Pulse thread. This is getting to hijack status lol.

 

[mtn-doo]

Good Idea summitboy, a PWK / Pulse thread would be a good idea ! lol It started off as a Smart Carb thread. Then got Hi Jacked big time! lol

 

[summitboy]

Yes it sure did LOL ! I was wrong and i know that now ! To keep it on track i have a 40mm Billet for sale if anyone needs one.

 

[Patches88]

My CR500 and SC experience

On my CR500 I had big aspirations alas after hours and hours of testing it, changing ignitions, put PWK back on to verify I wasn't crazy I've given up.
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It definitely doesn't run with the .076 metering rod APT recommends, have to go with the .080 to even get it to idle. Then it has a super lean spot 2/3 throttle which can't be tuned out by adjusting the clicker without losing the bottom end response.
Almost all of the CR500riders.com guys have returned their Smartcarbs, a couple guys seem to have gotten lucky. I wished it would have worked, I spend months working with the .074, .076, .078 and .080 metering rods on this new engine. Keihin PWK is back on it now and starts in 3 kicks from cold.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6ENOoh0DBU[/FONT]

 

[mtn-doo]

By the sound of the idle, your slide may be a little high. If your slide is a little high they are difficult to start. They are not "fat" on the bottom like the old style carbs. Your slide opening needs to be about paper thin. The big 500's seem to like the Q05 rod, no lean spots.

Here is a quick example of a 500 , one kick start, smooth clean idle, no lean spots, etc. This bike demoed every weekend for an entire season and ran flawlessly. Never adjusted it. We can get yours running just like this easily. Once you understand the initial tuning process, they settle in spot on and you never touch them again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gznm_0NYvtA

 

[Patches88]

Of course it has to be set low or the Choke Circuit will be bypassed.

 

[summitboy]

I went through all that as well with Corey. It never started like a stock carb, stock pwk, or a Pulse. I just talked to another guy with a real CR500 with the Smarty. Wouldn't start or idle. Put a normal PWK back on it and fired right up and idled nice. Not sure what the deal is with all these CR500 issues. I do know the Smarty didn't work on all bikes. The KTM 380 was another bike that they had issues with getting it to run as well.

We are planning to run a Smarty on the dyno soon most likely on the KX500. Will be interesting to see the numbers. Would be nice to do all 3 setups.

That video Patches is kinda painful. Here are a couple other you tubers of the Smarty vibration i had mentioned. The carbs were switched out everyday for almost a week and performance was noted and recorded. Check out the vibration at idle of the Smartcarb :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3DiUz3fZQE

Pulse :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABPaMmMeXnw

Randy i didn't see the CR500 in your linked video ? Is it in another video of yours ?

 

[mtn-doo]

Paches88, That is quite high. Here is a great tuning aide that is helpful. Also there is a pic of an average slide height when correctly tuned. It should be about 1/2 of the height you have there. This tutorial is very helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAnK4qSlowQ

 

[summitboy]

Patches was your choke circuit opened up last time you sent it back to APT ? I know when Corey was saying they had all the issues with the 500 they thought they might try and hog it out for better starting.