Grooming fund dropping to Critical levels

[WaBackcountry]

After next years increase (which is significant!!) I hope the WSSA does an annual increase based on inflation.

If the lack of funds is such a drastic issue then who is responsible for letting it go this far? Why didn't someone implement a fee increase based on inflation ten years ago?

Let's ask some tough questions and hold people accountable. Why no action for years then all the sudden double our fees. A few bucks a year is alot easier to swallow then a double or triple increase in registration and permits in one year.

I honestly don't know for sure, because I have no idea how the system is managed but it appears to me that someone or some people with the WSSA and/or the state dropped the ball for not seeing this coming and taking actions years ago.

 

[WIMPY]

We had our groomer meeting also and we have enuff funds for about 11 weeks in the Chelan area.. So far(last year and year before) we have been doing ok with these reduced Groomer funds but thats only cause the lack of snow. We didnt start grooming around the Lake Chelan area until Jan 11th last year. If we start to get some normal snow fall we might be in a little trouble as far as grooming goes

 

[line8]

I just went back through all of these critical grooming fund disaster looming comments. Going back to my original post, with the exception of the comment about the state using monies for their own reasons---I stand corrected. It would seem that funds have been used responsibly assuming the comments about it are accurate, I don't have any reason to believe they aren't. With that said, I do take a pretty hard look at any additional registration fees I pay yearly. They are substantial and not all by choice. If the registration fees are not enough what is the solution? It seems to me that if fees climb next year, then next and then next after that. Pretty soon, there will be those and even more than the current that say forget it. "I ain't payen $100 to register this sled". or some will get out of the sport all together. In the end, the funds are still short. Going back to the original thought I had......Is there another way to have the grooming taken care of appropriately without relying on an increase in stickers and parking permits? I just don't see it working going that route.

 

[Snomofo]

In the spirit of keeping the registration fees reasonable. After the groomers and volunteers are awarded contracts to groom or plow, Are the able to receive donations? Are they able to seek donations? If the current fees allow function for 8 weeks and in the future they may not be able to function at all, what amounts are needed to run for 16 weeks? Just in terms of multiplication, would $60 registration fees cover that period?

Is there any way for clubs to solicit donations or money from fundraisers, and funnel it through WSSA to their specific grooming areas? While I have no problem with raising registration fees, I am concerned the number of registered sleds will drop as a result of a significant increase.

 

[JETJOHNSO]

ALOT OF MIS-UNDERSTANDINGS HERE AND SOME GOOD INFO BOTH !!

The canadian thing wont work in washington, period , way to many snoparks. In Oregon Some clubs do own the groomers and have club members run them. Wont work here, What club could even remotely spend 200, to 280,000 for a groomer, none that I know of, Oregon only has 16,000 sleds registered and way less snoparks than we do. Our Winter Motorized Snowmobile program has no money to purchase groomers any more, In the old days when our reg #'s were up to 36,000 and higher we had a lot more money in our DEDICATED FUNDS. Now were down in the 27,000 to 28,000 range, WAY OFF. We all know everything cost more now a days than it did 10 years ago. We have not had a snowmobile registration increase in YEARS, so our $ 30 a year tab is definately one of the best bangs for the buck in any kind of motorized fee. WSSa is only looking at a fee increase the first year of just $10 measly bucks, and than MAYBE $ 10 bucks the next year. No this is not going to get us way back to where we were, but it's a good start. We've been gettng our snopark permits for free, for ever, We need to start paying for them, One permit for your rig, not one for every sled. I'm sure we could all afford an extra $40 for a snopark permit. (Once a year ) This is what the NON-MOTORIZED people pay. It works for them, They had some bitches and complaints but they were short lived after they figured out how much money the snopark permits and their other permits cost them. Way more than ours. ALL OUR REG MONEY GOES INTO OUR DEDICATED MOTORIZED FUNDS. I really want to stress that as I keep hearing all this crap about our money going somewhere else. IT DOESNT., It's ours to run our program. I've said this at least a zillion times on here and BCR, We've gotten away way to cheep for YEARS ! If we want to stay in the game and even get half way decent trails ( which lead to the good stuff ) we must pay A LITTLE MORE.. Support WSSA with their endevors to increase fee's., It's way over do. I know I'm probably forgetting something to add but if you have any questions, let me know. We get a pretty reasonable bang for our buck once you get the equipment, gear truck and trailer !!. Thanks Dan
ALSO, yes clubs or individuals can donate money to a specific grooming program thru wssa or state parks, all that money will go to grooming, NOT THE BLACK HOLE. If you donate thru WSSA, WSSA will match the amount up to $25,000, so if we all throw in 25,000 and wssa puts in 25,000 there 50 grand twards more grooming,
ALSO our normal grooming program runs for 16 weeks aprox. Dec thru the end of March, If we dont start till mid december most areas can run a normal 14 week period and still get 2 to 4 days of grooming per week, depending on the area. The grooming councils and the operators need to work together very closey to run thru March, It can be done. I knoiw some of the operators want to run a normal schedule and burn thru the money and quit in feb, but I think this will just piss people off who dont know all the whys and hows ect. just my 2 cents worth folks !~

 

[gorilla]

I'm all for raising the registration if the money goes to where it is needed and not into some other account. Seriously, even doubling the cost really isn't that bad. $60 a year is cheap if u ask me. When I lived in AZ, vehicle registration would be hundreds of $$ a year. An increase of $30 a year isn't even a tank full of gas. Surely people can step up and pay, they just don't realize what it costs to support programs like grooming. I didn't realize I could donate somewhere, so I'll look into that and send some $$.

Just my 2 cents, I'm sure others will not agree, but that's fine w me.

 

[WaBackcountry]

The canadian thing wont work in washington, period , way to many snoparks. In Oregon Some clubs do own the groomers and have club members run them. Wont work here, What club could even remotely spend 200, to 280,000 for a groomer, none that I know of, Oregon only has 16,000 sleds registered and way less snoparks than we do. Our Winter Motorized Snowmobile program has no money to purchase groomers any more, In the old days when our reg #'s were up to 36,000 and higher we had a lot more money in our DEDICATED FUNDS. Now were down in the 27,000 to 28,000 range, WAY OFF. We all know everything cost more now a days than it did 10 years ago. We have not had a snowmobile registration increase in YEARS, so our $ 30 a year tab is definately one of the best bangs for the buck in any kind of motorized fee. WSSa is only looking at a fee increase the first year of just $10 measly bucks, and than MAYBE $ 10 bucks the next year. No this is not going to get us way back to where we were, but it's a good start. We've been gettng our snopark permits for free, for ever, We need to start paying for them, One permit for your rig, not one for every sled. I'm sure we could all afford an extra $40 for a snopark permit. (Once a year ) This is what the NON-MOTORIZED people pay. It works for them, They had some bitches and complaints but they were short lived after they figured out how much money the snopark permits and their other permits cost them. Way more than ours. ALL OUR REG MONEY GOES INTO OUR DEDICATED MOTORIZED FUNDS. I really want to stress that as I keep hearing all this crap about our money going somewhere else. IT DOESNT., It's ours to run our program. I've said this at least a zillion times on here and BCR, We've gotten away way to cheep for YEARS ! If we want to stay in the game and even get half way decent trails ( which lead to the good stuff ) we must pay A LITTLE MORE.. Support WSSA with their endevors to increase fee's., It's way over do. I know I'm probably forgetting something to add but if you have any questions, let me know. We get a pretty reasonable bang for our buck once you get the equipment, gear truck and trailer !!. Thanks Dan
ALSO, yes clubs or individuals can donate money to a specific grooming program thru wssa or state parks, all that money will go to grooming, NOT THE BLACK HOLE. If you donate thru WSSA, WSSA will match the amount up to $25,000, so if we all throw in 25,000 and wssa puts in 25,000 there 50 grand twards more grooming,
ALSO our normal grooming program runs for 16 weeks aprox. Dec thru the end of March, If we dont start till mid december most areas can run a normal 14 week period and still get 2 to 4 days of grooming per week, depending on the area. The grooming councils and the operators need to work together very closey to run thru March, It can be done. I knoiw some of the operators want to run a normal schedule and burn thru the money and quit in feb, but I think this will just piss people off who dont know all the whys and hows ect. just my 2 cents worth folks !~

You still failed to answer to the tough question about the lack of action the last ten years. Who was asleep at the wheel? If it is a leadership or management issue within the WSSA or state government then we should hold them accountable. I would assume the WSSA positions are voluntary but it is still critical that we have proactive leadership that will run the system like a business NOT like our government. If we fail to hold individuals or the group as a whole accountabile then we are just kicking the can down the road.

 

[sunbather1969]

I'm all for it

But when we essentially double fee's charging 10 more per sled and you have to buy a permit. Something better improve because if it doesn't i truly believe this will backfire. I don't think anybody has a problem with this but everything has been raising in our state and not just a little and our pay is the same. I just would hate to see this happen with no benefits. Craigen at helens needs to be ousted there should be some type of policing the way these people do business everyone including the high brass knows this and year after year nothing happens. Hell a gal did it for free all last couple springs (grooming) and tried to get the bid they turned her down.

 

[JETJOHNSO]

I know some people are new and have not been paying attention

WSSA has known about this for about 6 years, because of all the "older generation" ( I dont mean that in a bad way) they did not think the budget was that bad and they didnt think the snowmobilers of washington would want to pay more, WSSA has been working with Lobbyist in Olympia to get the fuel tax lid removed so we can get more from our fuel tax money. Well all I got to say is GOOD LUCK, they have been telling all of us members "THAT WE ARE CLOSE" so dont go after the reg fee increase or we'll 'ROCK THE BOAT'" ,,,, so it got put on hold till the Shiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttt hit the fan this year. I myself quit going to the WSSA meetings the last few years because I was so tired of bringing this problem up and listening to all the excuses they had. I never did quit being a wssa member but I was sure tired of hearing the same old thing. Well at least now they are on board due to a lot of pressure from a lot of WSSA members. There are still some "blue hairs " ( not picking on anyone so dont get your feelings hurt) on the board and on some clubs that dont want to railse our fee's. At least there are enough now to move forward, thats the short story of the fee problem. A few people were thinking for the entire snowmobile community. I'll probably get chastized for my comments but it really makes me puke to think this should have happened years ago. I can vividly remember bringing this problem up at the Winter rondevue meeting in cle elum and getting absolutley bashed for even suggesting we need to raise our fee's. My good friend Fred ( long time snowmbiler) brought it up first and they just about thru him out of the meeting. DAMN THOSE PEOPLE WERE RUDE AND TOTALLY WRONG, that day... thats just about the time I backed off of wssa. Well now I'm back on and want to see something happen, NOT JUST LIP SERVICE .. Ok now I really got my self rallied up just thinking about this. WSSA has a lobbist who still to this day says we are close ! Ya right ,, when donkeys fly

 

[adamsrider]

Why is it they have to plow the road when they have 6 inches of fresh nowing its going to rain the next day,waste of money..sorry its a bunch . Pay stations at the snowpark or closes town, funds going to that snowpark is the only way to go.

 

[MikeM1000]

Yes I think that there should be local pay stations to surrounding snow parks that locals can donate to there LOCAL snowpark. I'd drop a few bucks in each trip. And that would make a big diferance over the year.

Also with plowing. I have seen them plow 2" of snow before. If they go all the way up there's no sence in not plowing but just because it snowed for 10 min doesn't meen they need to plow.

And maybe some volunteer studies or groomer observations should be taking in to account and maybe not groom some of the low usage roads as much as high traffic Just a thought

 

[sunbather1969]

In other areas

You go to the nearest gas station that participates and pay and designate what area you want your money to go Ie baker, helens. All of the monies go to the clubs and they do what they love take care of the surrounding areas. Oh well im done until our area doesn't get what it needs and i'll bitch online and send emails to the forest circus and they can delete them, vicious circle.

 

[line8]

Way more than ours. ALL OUR REG MONEY GOES INTO OUR DEDICATED MOTORIZED FUNDS. I really want to stress that as I keep hearing all this crap about our money going somewhere else. IT DOESNT., It's ours to run our program. I've said this at least a zillion times on here and BCR, We've gotten away way to cheep for YEARS !


All this crap you keep hearing is probably good. It just goes to show how much outreach is needed. A lot of the crap could be just comments out of fear that their money is going to go someplace else. I think this is a great topic to discuss as many many don't have the info you are putting out here right now. $30 is pretty cheap to some, pretty reasonable to others- even a $10 increase over the next couple years seems like it would go over without much question. Those that are new to the sport or maybe do n't know about the WSSA or any other for that matter, are at a disadvantage because this information is not easily recognized. Registration fees to some are just another damn fee and becomes another complaint one time a year. My point, not everyone has the information you just divulged. Again, to some, this is new information or possibly an answer to a long time wonder about funding. Try and not take the crap comments to heart as those could be the ones that are first in line to try and help.

 

[SnowTek]

For those that think donating $ to a local area is the answer, you already can. It's very easy, no excuse for all those that say they would donate if they could.

Just mail your donation to Washinton State Park Winter Recreation;

Washington State Parks
Winter Recreation
1111 Israel Road SW
Olympia, WA 98504-2650

Inside write them a note stating it's a restricted donation with what area you want it to go to. You could even donate to groom a specific trail (or plow a specific snopark). The state takes none of the money from your donation. You can even ask for an accounting to make sure it went where you requested (make sure you give them contact info if you do).

WSSA will even match your donation, unfortuntley not if donate to a specific area. They will only match general donations. (Disappointing in my opinion). At least they are making an attempt matching general donations up to $25,000.

Get involved in our program, it's important. We need more new people involved. more new blood in WSSA. For those that complain on this forum year after year, get involved. You keep saying the same thing, take proactive action. See a problem, want a change, attend the local grooming council ( or WSSA meeting ) and have it addressed. The more people involved the better, it's OUR program.

Can't wait to see all the donations rolling in that people keep talking about. You said it, now let's see it!!!

 

[Gager]

Non-Resident Tag?

I would like Washington make it easy to buy a non-resident tag like they do in Idaho. Costs the same as resident and you can get them without going to a licensing place. Same for snopark pass.

 

[WaBackcountry]

WSSA has known about this for about 6 years, because of all the "older generation" ( I dont mean that in a bad way) they did not think the budget was that bad and they didnt think the snowmobilers of washington would want to pay more, WSSA has been working with Lobbyist in Olympia to get the fuel tax lid removed so we can get more from our fuel tax money. Well all I got to say is GOOD LUCK, they have been telling all of us members "THAT WE ARE CLOSE" so dont go after the reg fee increase or we'll 'ROCK THE BOAT'" ,,,, so it got put on hold till the Shiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttt hit the fan this year. I myself quit going to the WSSA meetings the last few years because I was so tired of bringing this problem up and listening to all the excuses they had. I never did quit being a wssa member but I was sure tired of hearing the same old thing. Well at least now they are on board due to a lot of pressure from a lot of WSSA members. There are still some "blue hairs " ( not picking on anyone so dont get your feelings hurt) on the board and on some clubs that dont want to railse our fee's. At least there are enough now to move forward, thats the short story of the fee problem. A few people were thinking for the entire snowmobile community. I'll probably get chastized for my comments but it really makes me puke to think this should have happened years ago. I can vividly remember bringing this problem up at the Winter rondevue meeting in cle elum and getting absolutley bashed for even suggesting we need to raise our fee's. My good friend Fred ( long time snowmbiler) brought it up first and they just about thru him out of the meeting. DAMN THOSE PEOPLE WERE RUDE AND TOTALLY WRONG, that day... thats just about the time I backed off of wssa. Well now I'm back on and want to see something happen, NOT JUST LIP SERVICE .. Ok now I really got my self rallied up just thing about this. WSSA has a lobbist who still to this day says we are close ! Ya right ,, when donkeys fly

Its sounds like we need some fresh representation at the WSSA. How can individuals get information about meetings in our area. WSSS website? Or who do we call.

 

[Yamahog]

I'll pay more to register. Lets do this I wanna ride!

 

[catzr]

grooming fund dropping

www.wssa.us
join WSSA and get the Sno-Flyer

 

[BBP]

How much sales tax did you all pay when you bought your sleds? And all the gear, parts & repairs? Where does all of that money go? You're probably thinking, oh yea, I forgot about that. But that money doesn't count, it's being used to study the wolves.

 

[adamsrider]

How much sales tax did you all pay when you bought your sleds? And all the gear, parts & repairs? Where does all of that money go? You're probably thinking, oh yea, I forgot about that. But that money doesn't count, it's being used to study the wolves.

Very true..Increasing the reg fees will drive more money away from the program, I have 5 sleds that I lic,increase the fee's prob only 2 sleds, loss money..yep.I dont have a problem paying extra for the area's that ride.