Another part of the problem is people with loud pipes! Performance guys need to make consumer performance pipes, and race pipes. I have pipes that are very loud, but they are on a sled that I use just for racing. I see lots of guys on the hill with very loud pipes.
Going Green in the Snowmobile Industry
- Thread starter shady_65
- Start date
Damn it's scary how right you are. Here in California it won't matter how clean they are cause there workin on making the whole state wilderness. We have been in a all out war since 2003 with the route designation. If they use the same model for Snowmobiles were screwed.
Another one bites the dust. Which one is next?
I sent this out yesterday to our Washington State SAWS members. We have been fighting this deal for years. This area is now lost in my opinion, but there are plenty more on the way.
And even worse than this, the Forest Service in Region 1, mostly Montana, is deciding to take the law into their own hands and closing Recommended Wilderness Areas to sleds without even going through Congress. This is ILLEGAL in my opinion!!!
Someone with deep pockets needs to sue the FS over this. I am positive that SAWS would pitch in money and provide some advice if someone would take this one on. Anyone?
_____________________________________________________________
WA SAWS Members,
I wanted to drop you a quick note to inform you that the Wild Sky Wilderness bill passed in the Senate today.
Wild Sky was contained in S2739 (Consolidated Natural Resources Act of 2008). This bill contained numerous individual bills that authorize certain programs and activities on lands managed by the Department of the Interior, the Forest Service, and the Department of Energy; including Wild Sky.
HR886 (Wild Sky Wilderness Act of 2007) already passed in the House on 4/17/07 as I previously informed our WA SAWS members last spring, but since S2739 contained numerous bills and not just the Wild Sky bill, it must go back to the House for another vote.
This bill will most likely pass in the House again and become law very shortly if President Bush signs the final bill, as he has indicated in the past he would do.
Another sad day for multiple-use of our public lands in Washington State. I have copied an article below from this afternoon on the Seattle PI website for further information.
Dave
Snowmobile Alliance of Western States
_____________________________________________________________
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_wst_wild_sky_wilderness.html
Senate approves Wild Sky wilderness in Washington State
By MATTHEW DALY
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
WASHINGTON -- For the fourth and what supporters hope is the final time, the Senate has approved a bill to create a Wild Sky Wilderness northeast of Seattle - the first new wilderness area in Washington state in more than 20 years.
The bill, introduced by Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash. would designate 167 square miles in the Mount Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest north of Sultan, Wash., as federal wilderness, the government's highest level of protection.
The Senate approved the plan 91-4 Thursday as part of a massive bill affecting public lands from coast to coast.
The bill, which combines 62 separate proposals related to public lands across the country, would also designate a recreation trail in Oregon's Willamette National Forest in honor of former Rep. Jim Weaver, D-Ore., and expands Idaho's Minidoka Internment National Monument to include a site commemorating Japanese-Americans imprisoned in Bainbridge Island, Wash., during World War II.
It also establishes the Abraham Lincoln National Heritage Area in Illinois and Niagara Falls Heritage Area in New York state, boosts a project to create a memorial in Washington, D.C., to President Dwight D. Eisenhower, and creates a commission to study a possible National Museum of the American Latino.
The bill also would extend federal immigration and labor laws to the U.S. commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands. The Marianas, in the western Pacific, have been tainted by past associations with lobbyist Jack Abramoff and reports of sweatshop labor.
The overwhelming vote in favor of the bill belied a behind-the-scenes controversy that had delayed action on it for months.
Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., wanted to amend the bill to allow loaded guns in national parks and wildlife re***es. Current regulations require guns to be unloaded and safely stored on lands managed by the National Park Service and Fish and Wildlife Service.
Democrats and some Republicans objected, saying Coburn and some GOP allies were trying to score political points by injecting a "wedge" issue such as gun rights into a noncontroversial bill.
Coburn disputed that, saying Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., had agreed to allow him to bring a host of amendments to the floor. A spokesman for Coburn accused Reid of trying to protect the two leading Democratic candidates for president by shielding them from a politically difficult vote on an issue that many rural voters consider crucial.
Eventually, Coburn agreed to drop the amendment - but not before drawing the ire of even some Republican colleagues.
New Mexico Sen. Pete Domenici, senior Republican on the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, said Coburn was trying to "frustrate the legitimate business" of the committee and, more broadly, congressional stewardship of federal lands.
"Frankly I believe much of this problem can be attributed to a lack of understanding of the structure of this committee and the importance of its business," Domenici said during debate on the bill.
Coburn said he had "a difference in philosophy" with other senators, and said he would not give up efforts to rein in federal spending. Coburn called the lands bill bloated and unnecessary.
"I will not stop fighting. I will not stop objecting to spending money" on federal lands, he said.
The Senate defeated four other amendments Coburn offered before approving the overall bill.
The Wild Sky measure would designate approximately 106,000 acres of low-elevation, old-growth forest in the Mount Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest as wilderness, one of the highest levels of protection Congress can bestow on public lands.
Murray, who has championed the measure in the Senate for nearly nine years, said the bill was "an example of wilderness done the right way," with support from a range of local groups and elected officials.
The proposed Wild Sky area is just 90 minutes from Seattle and offers millions of people access to "rolling hills and rushing rivers and low-elevation forests," Murray said. These areas "will be preserved for generations to come," she said.
A similar bill passed the House last April, following Democratic takeover of the chamber following a dozen years of Republican rule. GOP leaders in the House had blocked the Wild Sky bill for years, saying that wilderness protection should extend only to lands untouched by humans.
The proposed wilderness area would block development or other economic activity in a sprawling area north of U.S. 2 that includes habitat for bears, bald eagles and other wildlife, as well as streams, hiking trails and other forms of recreation.
Environmental groups hailed the Senate vote as a landmark victory.
"Senator Murray went to bat in the Senate and hit a grand slam. She overcame some tough obstacles and is sending Wild Sky on its way home for all Washingtonians," said Jon Owen of the Campaign for America's Wilderness, an advocacy group. "After two decades, the time for more Washington wilderness is now."
The bill now heads back to House for final approval.
I sent this out yesterday to our Washington State SAWS members. We have been fighting this deal for years. This area is now lost in my opinion, but there are plenty more on the way.
And even worse than this, the Forest Service in Region 1, mostly Montana, is deciding to take the law into their own hands and closing Recommended Wilderness Areas to sleds without even going through Congress. This is ILLEGAL in my opinion!!!
Someone with deep pockets needs to sue the FS over this. I am positive that SAWS would pitch in money and provide some advice if someone would take this one on. Anyone?
_____________________________________________________________
WA SAWS Members,
I wanted to drop you a quick note to inform you that the Wild Sky Wilderness bill passed in the Senate today.
Wild Sky was contained in S2739 (Consolidated Natural Resources Act of 2008). This bill contained numerous individual bills that authorize certain programs and activities on lands managed by the Department of the Interior, the Forest Service, and the Department of Energy; including Wild Sky.
HR886 (Wild Sky Wilderness Act of 2007) already passed in the House on 4/17/07 as I previously informed our WA SAWS members last spring, but since S2739 contained numerous bills and not just the Wild Sky bill, it must go back to the House for another vote.
This bill will most likely pass in the House again and become law very shortly if President Bush signs the final bill, as he has indicated in the past he would do.
Another sad day for multiple-use of our public lands in Washington State. I have copied an article below from this afternoon on the Seattle PI website for further information.
Dave
Snowmobile Alliance of Western States
_____________________________________________________________
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_wst_wild_sky_wilderness.html
Senate approves Wild Sky wilderness in Washington State
By MATTHEW DALY
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
WASHINGTON -- For the fourth and what supporters hope is the final time, the Senate has approved a bill to create a Wild Sky Wilderness northeast of Seattle - the first new wilderness area in Washington state in more than 20 years.
The bill, introduced by Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash. would designate 167 square miles in the Mount Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest north of Sultan, Wash., as federal wilderness, the government's highest level of protection.
The Senate approved the plan 91-4 Thursday as part of a massive bill affecting public lands from coast to coast.
The bill, which combines 62 separate proposals related to public lands across the country, would also designate a recreation trail in Oregon's Willamette National Forest in honor of former Rep. Jim Weaver, D-Ore., and expands Idaho's Minidoka Internment National Monument to include a site commemorating Japanese-Americans imprisoned in Bainbridge Island, Wash., during World War II.
It also establishes the Abraham Lincoln National Heritage Area in Illinois and Niagara Falls Heritage Area in New York state, boosts a project to create a memorial in Washington, D.C., to President Dwight D. Eisenhower, and creates a commission to study a possible National Museum of the American Latino.
The bill also would extend federal immigration and labor laws to the U.S. commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands. The Marianas, in the western Pacific, have been tainted by past associations with lobbyist Jack Abramoff and reports of sweatshop labor.
The overwhelming vote in favor of the bill belied a behind-the-scenes controversy that had delayed action on it for months.
Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., wanted to amend the bill to allow loaded guns in national parks and wildlife re***es. Current regulations require guns to be unloaded and safely stored on lands managed by the National Park Service and Fish and Wildlife Service.
Democrats and some Republicans objected, saying Coburn and some GOP allies were trying to score political points by injecting a "wedge" issue such as gun rights into a noncontroversial bill.
Coburn disputed that, saying Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., had agreed to allow him to bring a host of amendments to the floor. A spokesman for Coburn accused Reid of trying to protect the two leading Democratic candidates for president by shielding them from a politically difficult vote on an issue that many rural voters consider crucial.
Eventually, Coburn agreed to drop the amendment - but not before drawing the ire of even some Republican colleagues.
New Mexico Sen. Pete Domenici, senior Republican on the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, said Coburn was trying to "frustrate the legitimate business" of the committee and, more broadly, congressional stewardship of federal lands.
"Frankly I believe much of this problem can be attributed to a lack of understanding of the structure of this committee and the importance of its business," Domenici said during debate on the bill.
Coburn said he had "a difference in philosophy" with other senators, and said he would not give up efforts to rein in federal spending. Coburn called the lands bill bloated and unnecessary.
"I will not stop fighting. I will not stop objecting to spending money" on federal lands, he said.
The Senate defeated four other amendments Coburn offered before approving the overall bill.
The Wild Sky measure would designate approximately 106,000 acres of low-elevation, old-growth forest in the Mount Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest as wilderness, one of the highest levels of protection Congress can bestow on public lands.
Murray, who has championed the measure in the Senate for nearly nine years, said the bill was "an example of wilderness done the right way," with support from a range of local groups and elected officials.
The proposed Wild Sky area is just 90 minutes from Seattle and offers millions of people access to "rolling hills and rushing rivers and low-elevation forests," Murray said. These areas "will be preserved for generations to come," she said.
A similar bill passed the House last April, following Democratic takeover of the chamber following a dozen years of Republican rule. GOP leaders in the House had blocked the Wild Sky bill for years, saying that wilderness protection should extend only to lands untouched by humans.
The proposed wilderness area would block development or other economic activity in a sprawling area north of U.S. 2 that includes habitat for bears, bald eagles and other wildlife, as well as streams, hiking trails and other forms of recreation.
Environmental groups hailed the Senate vote as a landmark victory.
"Senator Murray went to bat in the Senate and hit a grand slam. She overcame some tough obstacles and is sending Wild Sky on its way home for all Washingtonians," said Jon Owen of the Campaign for America's Wilderness, an advocacy group. "After two decades, the time for more Washington wilderness is now."
The bill now heads back to House for final approval.
Last edited:
Why cant we all just become vegan and live in little huts made from our own ****?
A
aadougie
Well-known member
Because every time you breathe you exhale green house gases...stop it d@m you! We are killing mother earth with our bad breath! Well, that and bovine burps...
Our local club is going to do just that this year. We have a private timber company that owns some land (and the road into it) that has been allowing sledders to use this access point. They have sold off some of their land over the years (now homes on it), and logging other parts. This year things came to a head with people not respecting where they park (in driveways), too fast on the road, blocking the access the log trucks and loggers use, and the TRASH. Loads and loads of trash. People have watched guys getting into their trucks, and just tossing stuff out (a lot of beer cans, but other items too). We worked really hard to try to keep this area open, which it did remain, for this year anyway. One of the things was that our club would go and do a clean up along the roadway once the snow was melted. Sad thing is, it'll be the same few people that always do everything within the club (and the ones active in land use).....and none of this core group even use that access point. We all need to do our part though.
If we start eliminating their VALID points/excuses, then pretty soon the people in the power positions making decisions, are going to have to open their eyes and see what is going on. Noise is such an easy one, and easy to prove (probably most of us riding, don't care for real loud sleds either), so why give them that ammo against us?
Do I believe they will just go away, no, but I do believe that we can do better, and we can stand a chance if we do police ourselves.
Most importantly, we NEED everyone who rides to be involved with Public Land remaining open to ALL of the public. Right now we just don't have the involvement of the people who ride. Maybe it's "not in my backyard", or "doesn't affect me", or some other excuse (no money, no time). It doesn't take long to fire off an email. SAWS is great in that they are free, and they send Alerts for many different areas, giving everyone a chance to have a voice in what happens in all over the place (and we all have a say in Public Land, even if it is in another state). And why not make time to go to the local land use meetings? Maybe it's not the ideal way you want to spend your time, but if one doesn't make time for things like this, then soon maybe it won't matter because areas you like to recreate on are shut down to your use.
My 2 cents.
Last edited:
Oh right I forgot, here's what we should all advocate then....
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312779,00.html
Save the planet!
If we start eliminating their VALID points/excuses, then pretty soon the people in the power positions making decisions, are going to have to open their eyes and see what is going on. Noise is such an easy one, and easy to prove (probably most of us riding, don't care for real loud sleds either), so why give them that ammo against us?
Do I believe they will just go away, no, but I do believe that we can do better, and we can stand a chance if we do police ourselves.
yeah, you're right cat, but if we keep getting rid/dealing with each of the issues some may call valid, they'll move on to the next and the next and so on until there is nothing left. there needs to be a stand taken and say/prove that these issues aren't valid to relative environmental health and you will not take these lands or right to them away from us which we as snowmobilers/hunters/traditional outdoor enthusiasts do, pay and contribute FAR MORE towards conservation and land stewardship along with wildlife than any stinkin treehuggin hippy ever will or has. we as snowmobilers play a defensive roll where we should maybe consider a more proactive approach. didn't want to say "offensive" for any smarta**'s out there
Ttt
V
Veedy
Well-known member
It brings a smile to my face to know that these people DO NOT reproduce. Now, if we could get the extremist tree huggers in board....
I always tell greenies that if they really cared about mother earth, they'd kill themselves before they breed.
ttt
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
Emissions wise, 2-strokes will give way to 4 strokes slowly but surely. When the power/weight ratio from a stock 4 stroke machine gets a little closer, I'll gladly jump ship. 2-strokes are neat, fun motors to ride, but I'll gladly give up the stink, $50 oil jugs and lack of longevity regardless of whether it's "green" or not. There is still a __LOT__ of technology left to apply to 4-stroke sled motors from the automotive world to make them burn cleaner, and it will trickle down consistantly.
Don't litter, period.....I don't know who does it, because everyone on here claims to be a saint, but there's still the odd wrapper or sled part out there for no good reason.
As far as other environmental impacts, well, sleds travel on snow and snow is pretty damn self-healing. Spring comes along, snow melts, and any trace of sled ever being there (given no litter) is long gone. Noise is a side effect that F's us with the skiers, but there's no good way around that besides keeping your own machine to a non-ear-piercing level. Apparently helicopters are cool tho.....whatever
What's left? Impact on animals....I dunno what to say about that. There's been highways for 100 years with noisy cars on them, and there are still a redculously high number of deer, etc, that hang around them to date getting pounded by cars constantly. I don't buy that a some sled noise for a few months out of the year is going to scare off animals if that hasn't. I can't imagine what the odds of actually hitting a wild animal while sledding in the mountains are.....you'd probably have a better chance stumbling across a Cirque du Soleil matinee back in Superbowl.
Ehn, my 2 bits
Don't litter, period.....I don't know who does it, because everyone on here claims to be a saint, but there's still the odd wrapper or sled part out there for no good reason.
As far as other environmental impacts, well, sleds travel on snow and snow is pretty damn self-healing. Spring comes along, snow melts, and any trace of sled ever being there (given no litter) is long gone. Noise is a side effect that F's us with the skiers, but there's no good way around that besides keeping your own machine to a non-ear-piercing level. Apparently helicopters are cool tho.....whatever
What's left? Impact on animals....I dunno what to say about that. There's been highways for 100 years with noisy cars on them, and there are still a redculously high number of deer, etc, that hang around them to date getting pounded by cars constantly. I don't buy that a some sled noise for a few months out of the year is going to scare off animals if that hasn't. I can't imagine what the odds of actually hitting a wild animal while sledding in the mountains are.....you'd probably have a better chance stumbling across a Cirque du Soleil matinee back in Superbowl.
Ehn, my 2 bits
Sledding has changed a lot for the better, but as for fuel consumption.... well, I can remember when the largest displacement motor out there was 500cc and you maybe burned 5 gallons all day, throttle taped to the bars. Granted they were burning 30-40:1 . fuel injected Four stroke technogoly is still the emissions king and will still beat the pats off any direct injection 2 stroke. No loss system or total los system, your still burning oil. Don't let the hype from the 2 stroke manufactures fool you about the differences 2 to 4. Pollutants are one thing but sound emissions are another. Let's put it this way, we all may think our pipes sound cool, and it's our god given right to have them, but it pizzes people off. It's a great coal for greenies to use to stoke the fire of environmentalism. Tread lightly is another term that is used in the motorsport industry, we should use it in all sports, including skiing, mountain biking, climbing, hiking, ATVing, sledding, and 4x4ing.
If this battle were about carbon emissions the enviro nazis would be trying to ground jetliners and helicopters in heli ski and hike operations. They could give a crap about emissions. It's about the noise and evaisiveness of our sport. They don't like the sound of our motors or the fact that we travel through snow with little effort. It's Very hypocritical of them to fight against our sport then go to a ski hill and ski. I could go on and on about the impact ski hills do to the environment...
Ahem, I'm sorry what type of sled and motor was it that won the clean air challenge last year ??? I believe it was a Skidoo 2-stroke.
Clean Snowmobile Challenge, not air. If we were gonna try and clean the air we'd put a bunch pin wheels on the hood
Which 2-stroke passed emissions???? I believe none of them did!
Not a chance, as much as i love 2-strokes and will continue to ride them until I die. 4 strokes will be cleaner because they burn more completely by taking twice as many strokes. A 2 stroke can be competitive (especially a triple Etec) but will not be as clean. The funny thing is that as 4 strokes are sweeping across the recreational vehicle market, 2 strokes will soon be re-entering the automotive market. GM is/has been developing a 2 stroke engine for the cavalier. It produced more power and had better fuel economy, but it was just out of reach on NOx emissions
Similar threads
