Gen5 turbo clutching setups /information
- Thread starter firstkitty
- Start date
Have you done this on the p drive? Used to hook the strap to the tower on the Polaris, not sure if theres a good spot to hook on the Doo. Maybe just a few wraps around the clutch and it will cinch itself down?
I’ve used the puller tool over the years and always works well. put a dot of grease on the very end of the puller to facilitate. just did it again to install a clutch kit on my ‘23 Freeride and the primary came off easily.
All the correct tools make the job go smoothly
I would rather use a strap than a clutch holder on a Poo. Haven't done a Doo yet.
And if I can avoid spending $50 and waiting a week for the puller to show up if the bolt that's already there works just fine then that's the route I'm going LOL
The P drives take some special tools to work on, getting the primary off the crank is just the beginning. Depending on what you doing or changing that is. I got C&T Powersports kit and they work great
F
firstkitty
Well-known member
Look at this crazy tool I made lol needed one ASAP so I just built one
F
firstkitty
Well-known member
Thanks. The round part is one of them plates that bolt onto the mag on the 07-08 800r engines lol fits perfectly
That thing is going to break if it's off an 800r.
I just installed these I’m my sled today? Do you know what weight configuration was in the sleds tested? I went by the book and put 2 grams in the toe and 5 grams in the heel. We ride 9k—10.5k. Any info would be appreciated.
With all the respect on DJ clutching, theres one thing that bothers me a lot. And that is how much those kits have weight on the pivot. Yes you get the rpm down on the correct area by loading the pivot. But to get that rpm to the sweet spot, you usually need to load pivot a lot and still effect on high shift isnt that huge. And the reason is that pivot is located very close to a starting point of the weight.
Lots of pivot weight = Slow engine response and still overreving and slipping on high shift, not the best way to go!
Too much load on the pivot equals slow throttle response and heavy feeling on throttle. Personally I hate it. It makes treeriding and fast manouvers difficult. Yeah you get a feeling of "pull" but you actually might not be any faster. We want that rpm up fast so you get that light feeling and engine inertia work for you when riding.
I can see the slow throttle response on this video:
As long time spent on clutching for myself, my friends and clients, it isnt a rocket science but most of the people or dealers have no clue how to play with them. And then its just easy to go with clutch kits, whatever is hyped the most. And most people hype that feeling of pull even though their riding gets harder and less agile.
My simplified advices:
Problems with high engagment? Go 50lbs down on the start force of the primary spring and keep the end force as the same. For example, your stock spring is 150-250 (most common) change to a 100-250 and your engagment drops signicantly.
Problems with overreving? Go 50lbs down on end force and see what happens. If needed, change pivot to shorter or longer until you hit that 8000-8100. But dont load pivot more than with 38mm pivot bolt (16,7g), rather change to a softer spring. For example, your primary spring end force is 250 -> find a spring that has end force of 200.
What pivot weights should you use? BRP has 3 different pivots available: 26mm/13,1g - 33mm/15,2g - 38mm/16,7g and you should stick within this range. They are not expensive, buy all of them so you can play whatever you end game is.
What clicker position should you use? Best positions are #2 - #4. For overrall riding #3 is usually the best option, good balance on shift/revvy feeling. Lower # gets you more of that revy feeling and higher # gets you that shifting (feel of pull).
Did you know? If you want to go down on you primary spring start and end force, you can simply cut the spring - yes you read me right, cut few cm out and see that your engagment and peak rpm drops. Once again, find correct pivot weight to get your rpm on correct operating range.
Not going to write about secondary on this post as for most people the problem is the primary. And I want to keep this as simple as I can.
Lots of pivot weight = Slow engine response and still overreving and slipping on high shift, not the best way to go!
Too much load on the pivot equals slow throttle response and heavy feeling on throttle. Personally I hate it. It makes treeriding and fast manouvers difficult. Yeah you get a feeling of "pull" but you actually might not be any faster. We want that rpm up fast so you get that light feeling and engine inertia work for you when riding.
I can see the slow throttle response on this video:
As long time spent on clutching for myself, my friends and clients, it isnt a rocket science but most of the people or dealers have no clue how to play with them. And then its just easy to go with clutch kits, whatever is hyped the most. And most people hype that feeling of pull even though their riding gets harder and less agile.
My simplified advices:
Problems with high engagment? Go 50lbs down on the start force of the primary spring and keep the end force as the same. For example, your stock spring is 150-250 (most common) change to a 100-250 and your engagment drops signicantly.
Problems with overreving? Go 50lbs down on end force and see what happens. If needed, change pivot to shorter or longer until you hit that 8000-8100. But dont load pivot more than with 38mm pivot bolt (16,7g), rather change to a softer spring. For example, your primary spring end force is 250 -> find a spring that has end force of 200.
What pivot weights should you use? BRP has 3 different pivots available: 26mm/13,1g - 33mm/15,2g - 38mm/16,7g and you should stick within this range. They are not expensive, buy all of them so you can play whatever you end game is.
What clicker position should you use? Best positions are #2 - #4. For overrall riding #3 is usually the best option, good balance on shift/revvy feeling. Lower # gets you more of that revy feeling and higher # gets you that shifting (feel of pull).
Did you know? If you want to go down on you primary spring start and end force, you can simply cut the spring - yes you read me right, cut few cm out and see that your engagment and peak rpm drops. Once again, find correct pivot weight to get your rpm on correct operating range.
Not going to write about secondary on this post as for most people the problem is the primary. And I want to keep this as simple as I can.
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I think You have the clicker feel on the pDrive backwards, these are not tra’s.
Most people do not understand that you tune to your desired clicker position. There is no desired clicker position on the pDrive, all clicker positions can be tuned to the snow your riding in but the pivot weight must be charged to facilitate the clicker change.
You also left out a important part of the setup, the secondary, Does a pivot weight setup need to have mass to control rpm? No it cannot, a 40deg helix uses a very soft secondary spring to get the required belt clamp force to prevent slipping in the secondary. A multi angle helix with higher start angles will need a stiffer secondary spring.
You mentioned pull as well, pull on the bars means better belt clamp force, and better belt life with lower belt temps. Question that should be asked is the primary and secondary faces clean or is there lots of rings on them?
Unfortunately the laws of physics apply, you cannot get something for both but try to find the right balance of everything without a major negative effect is the ultimate goal.
I have to disagree. Im not sure if you read my previous post carefully enough. English isnt my native language so I hope to make more sense from now on.
Yes, you can use clikers for fine tuning the desired rpm. But you also you need to remember, that with lower # you get more overshoot after engagment. With higher # you get more feeling of pull:
On deep snow riding, you want the sled be "revvy", and get that light feeling of riding. Unless you are doing shootouts with your friends whoever is first on the top on straight line.
So definately your target can be to use certain # cliker position to achieve desired qualities and correct rpm with correct pivot weight and spring. For example, snowcross riders usually target to use cliker position #4 and adjust weight and spring to match that.
As I said, Im not yet gonna dive into the secondary as I wanted to keep this as simple as possible. I just wanted to point out that you dont allways need a clutch kit or pay $$$ for the professionals to figure out simple problems on your clutching.
Personally I do clutching for deep snow riders, crossover riders, trail riders and also snowcross racers. Needs are very different on different aspects of riding. Here we are talking about deep snow riding as thats where 850Turbos are made for.
I read it, good conversation to BTW.
I was focusing my reply on the pivot weight comment you made.
There are many ways to skin a cat and most guys just want something better than what stock provided from the factory and are most definitely willing to buy a kit to avoid going through all the R@D a kit guy does.
I can tune a sled on clicker 1 to get it to be revy on the bottom, and overshoot in my testing on clicker 1 is about 1-200rpm than it settles into its max rpm, not a big deal IMO.
If I want it even more revy I change to a different ramp profile.
If the flyweight mass in the primary remains the same and a the sled feels lazy than a quick solution is to click up to a higher clicker to get the response back, but the max rpm may change.
My G5 sled vs my brother G5 my sled engages lower and is more responsive than his on a lower clicker position. Mine also does not have the 50km a hour lazy backshift of the stock clutching either.
So question is why is my sled more responsive with more flyweight than a stock sled lower engagement on a lower clicker? Both sled have the same miles on them and very similar break in.
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Are we talking about engine response or track response? Two totally different things. I try to give an example what I mean.
Let say you are runninng 38mm pivot, cliker #4 and engine runs 8000-8100, thats great. You get that instant pull and rpm is consistent troughout the pull.
And your brother has 33mm pivot, cliker #2 and his engine runs also 8000-8100. His engine response is quicker. He probably gets some overshoot around 8200 in the beginning but longer the pull goes it drops to 8000-8100 which is fine too.
I would say you both have same sled but different qualities. It comes to personal preference, how and where you like to ride. For long pulls, drag racing, more open areas yours is better. For tricks, treeriding, etc. your brothers setup suits better.
BUT
if situation is that you both run 38mm pivot, yours is on #3 and his on #2. Probably whats happening is that your sled has consistent rpm 8000-81000 from the beginning, but your brothers sled has same rpm in the beginning but along the pull it drops to 7900. In this situation you can feel that your sled engages harder and pulls better. This is the reason I allways advice people to match pivot&spring to a desired cliker #.
