Gap between the rich and the middle class...

[ruffryder]

When is too much? Is there such a thing as too much? The last 10 years have seen the buying power of the average american shrink (net reduction in wages) yet the salaries for the rich have increased by a tremendous amount. I don't think it is right that during an economic boom, the only real benefits are shown at the top. What do you guys think about that?

I do agree that a successfull person has a right to have a lot of money. I do agree that you shouldn't get paid to do nothing in life. Welfare is a handout not a hand up, which people should get instead.

But, as money = power, having a majority of the wealth in fewer and fewer hands scares me.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Ollie]

Doesn't matter.
If politicians were actually honest and the media actually played watch dog on em, it wouldn't matter how rich you are.

Unfortunetly, politicians are for sale. Just ask Soros.
If you look at the tax laws, even the ones that target the rich, it never really affects the super rich. Those that really do affect politics thru cash.
The tax laws are only a smoke screen, it only affects those that actually do something.
The super rich just make sure they have the proper loop holes.

 

[JSCC]

When is too much? Is there such a thing as too much? The last 10 years have seen the buying power of the average american shrink (net reduction in wages) yet the salaries for the rich have increased by a tremendous amount. I don't think it is right that during an economic boom, the only real benefits are shown at the top. What do you guys think about that?

I do agree that a successfull person has a right to have a lot of money. I do agree that you shouldn't get paid to do nothing in life. Welfare is a handout not a hand up, which people should get instead.

But, as money = power, having a majority of the wealth in fewer and fewer hands scares me.

What are your thoughts?

I understand what you are saying about power being in too few hands. But I could care less if someone makes more than me. If people would quit worrying about others and just take care of themselves, we would not be in the mess we are in right now.
The truth is, is it takes money to make money. The more you have, the more you can make. So the poor usually stay fairly poor unless they work there arse off. The rich do get richer, but it is not always because they are corrupt or stealing from the poor, as some would like people to believe.

 

[redlineguy]

Anyone can be rich if they want it bad enough IMO.

A little story for ya all.

My Dad had to quit school and get a job to help his mom and sisters survive when his mom and dad split. To say he started with LESS than nothing would be true. He worked VERY hard, NEVER gave up and was never bitter tord people who had it all so to speak. One story I remember, He was working at a shop and the owner would get a new car every year or two ( a big fancy car) Well everyone one go out to look at the new car and many people would be pizzed at "THE LUCKY BASTAGE" But my dad would look and say someday I will have one of them. Long story short my DAD made it in life because he busted his azz, worked 100hrs a week for a long long time, Full time job and started his own bis where he worked most of the night and every weekend, Bout killed himself he worked so hard because he WANTED IT.

Now days people don't want to work they like to just sit and complain that the next guy has a nicer car or a nicer house . it does not matter if the guy with the nice house works 80hr's a week and they work 35 and refuse to work anymore. I had one of my people tell me I am crazy for working so much ( he works 40 hrs and will not take OT ever ) well he lives in a run down house and drives a beater car and is always looking for a raise and always complaining about not having any money, me.... I have lots of nice things so I like being crazy I guess. I have others that work for me that will ask for more Hr's before they ask for a raise..... They get both the other guy gets nothing.


I thank my Dad for my work ethic.... Dad is the GREATEST man Alive IMO I have learned so much from him I just wish more people in this country could.





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[2XM3]

When is too much? Is there such a thing as too much? The last 10 years have seen the buying power of the average american shrink (net reduction in wages) yet the salaries for the rich have increased by a tremendous amount. I don't think it is right that during an economic boom, the only real benefits are shown at the top. What do you guys think about that?

I do agree that a successfull person has a right to have a lot of money. I do agree that you shouldn't get paid to do nothing in life. Welfare is a handout not a hand up, which people should get instead.

But, as money = power, having a majority of the wealth in fewer and fewer hands scares me.

What are your thoughts?

Well, I have news for ya, it's always been that way, just look at the late 1800's. A very small number of families controled a vast majority of the wealth. It is the same today, we just see it more. Yes I actually agree that it is a very sad state of affairs but look at the roman empire, only a select few were very well off, the rest of the populace supported a small number. It is the same today. There is really a small number of uber rich today, most never even see the way they live. Heck Charles Schwabb spend 3.6 million on his birthday party last year, now thats insane to most but normal for him. Sad but true.....

 

[ruffryder]

So far, no one has even attempted to answer the question... except maybe for ollie with the "it doesn't matter"...

Everyone agrees here that if you work hard you should be able to be rich. No one is say other wise.

The question, is that at what point (if there is one) that the spread between the middle class (not the poor) and the top tier of our society becomes to great?

I thought it was pretty straight forward...

I will help you guys...

Start a sentence like this... "I think the point were the gap between the middle class and the wealthy becomes a problem is........"

I am not looking to judge, or criticize... mostly looking for peoples beliefs in the matter, as it is highly theoretical.

Somebody, anybody? Dang, 2xM3, I wasn't even done with my second edit yet... thanks!

 

[1Fast68]

Being A Senior Economics major this is basically what i end up talking about all day everyday, Policy, how it effects people, so on so forth. So forgive me ... my dinner is getting cold so i'm going to try and make this short.

There needs to be some gap between the rich and poor as there is in capitalist countries, otherwise people have no incentive to work hard, inventions an technological advancement slow and countries fall behind or just plain don't advance. Look at the socialist countries of the past and present and you will see this played out, Growth rates in them have and will always be extremely slow compared to countries with Economic freedom and property rights.Growth is directly related to a countries freedom for the most part, there are other things that affect this but we won't get into those.

When you start taking the money from those who generally have worked harder or made more of themselves, to redistribute the wealth among those in need, it rewards those who may not have worked hard, gone to college and so on. There are way too many already taking advantage of the system, Free riders, people who get benefits of something without ever paying for it themselves.

Basically its impossible to quantify where the wage/income gap becomes a problem. Its all theory .... and my dinner is cold ...... It becomes a problem when they start taking my money from me.

Riddle me this, why is it that now after college I can't claim bankruptcy and wipe the slate clean of all my debts, yet John and Joan Doe can go buy a $500,000 house they can't afford and get bailed out by the tax payers? They get rewarded for making a poor investment, I get the big FU, go pay back your loans.

 

[ruffryder]

Basically its impossible to quantify where the wage/income gap becomes a problem. Its all theory .... and my dinner is cold ......

Do you think there is a point though?

 

[2XM3]

Well I guess the question is very hard to answer without more data, ie, what do you consider 'wealthy" and what is "rich" ?? Very hard to say. I think the middle class today is basicly screwed, my dad worked hard, my mom did not work. We always had a new car every 2-3 years, paid for cash. We had a cabin on the lake that my dad built. We were true "middle class"blue collar. Today it probably take a income of 200,000+ to do the same thing. It is almost impossible to make that kind of money in todays world working with your hands.
Todays upper middle class (in # of people) is yesterdays near poor in relation to buying power. Yes it is a sad state indeed.
Wealthy today would be not having to worry about money but not able to buy in excess, ie about 10 million invested, that would produce aprox 350,000.00 after taxes ( well maybe not Obama taxes...lol, had to put that in Ruffy) then there is a quantum leap to the "rich" income in the 7+ figure range, net worth in excess of 100,000,000.00 you can spend anything you want and not piss it away.

So to sum up we have already passed the point of worry some time ago as to the gap between the rich and middle class, as some say the middle class is the working poor. Sadly it is the world we live in and would take a major change back to the past to let the middle class regain it's buying power and the ability to have 1 parent stay home to raise the family. There is no easy answer.

 

[1Fast68]

Do you think there is a point though?

Yes, IMO there probably is a point that a person has so much money that its just out of hand, But I'm not sure i believe that the government taking that money from them to give to others as they see fit is right either.

Warren Buffet has more money than he needs, He still lives in a small house that isn't anything special, but he also works harder than probably anyone else too.

 

[redlineguy]

Do you think there is a point though?

If there is we have not reached it yet, There is still Opportunity to make money, Yes right now it is bad, But its bad for even the rich. But in normal times Opportunity is still there so that is my answer.


Obamas aproch of take from the rich and give to the dumb or lazy is not good.

I am all for helping ANYONE who truly needs help but if you are not trying then you are on your own.... Its called thinning the heard.





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[Sidehiller]

Come on rr, you asked a reasonable question but when you didn't get a direct answer you got condecending again. (Start a sentence like this...)

Anyway, I think the point will correct itself as soon as it is reached because if the gap gets too big the wealthy can not support themselves at that level without contributions from the middle class. If the middle can't buy goods and services fast enough to keep the rich rich, the gap will close untill the rich are closer to the middle. That opens the oportunities for some in the middle to climb to the top for the next cycle. The same can be true to some extent for the middle / poor gap. In either case, sooner or later when the gap closes there will be opportunities to move up with hard work and a little luck.

I probably still didn't give you a satisfactory answer, but I don't think there is a definate point. What do you think?

 

[1Fast68]

Dinner was delicious BTW

You obviously have an opinion on this ruffy, so lets hear it .....

Just some quick facts
The top 5% of earners pay 53% of all income taxes
The top 10% pay 65%
The top 50%, half of society, pays 96% of the income tax

Looks like we've got a lot of people sitting around not doing much ....

 

[2XM3]

If there is we have not reached it yet, There is still Opportunity to make money, Yes right now it is bad, But its bad for even the rich. But in normal times Opportunity is still there so that is my answer.


Obamas aproch of take from the rich and give to the dumb or lazy is not good.



I would agree that we must raise the middle class up, not drag the rich down. Those who work hard must have the oppertunity to become wealthy, not fear that the ruling power will take away there wealth and "redistribute" it to the non worker. We must also be very fearful of taxes as when a person it worried about if there is food at the table he does not have time to affect govermental change. Thus goverment can do as it pleases, and this is to increase it's power over the people. And that is a very bad thing.....

 

[2XM3]

Dinner was delicious BTW

You obviously have an opinion on this ruffy, so lets hear it .....

Just some quick facts
The top 5% of earners pay 53% of all income taxes
The top 10% pay 65%
The top 50%, half of society, pays 96% of the income tax

Looks like we've got a lot of people sitting around not doing much ....

BINGO,,,,, a winner..........................

 

[redlineguy]

The Point I missed in my Rambling is this.

Most people don't save any money, They and myself included want everything!! (i save a lot but still want to much) in the old days we did not have so much stuff. The guy that works for me that I talked about before is not well of but pizzes his money away. people don't save to buy anything the just get a loan. I save and then buy. It is so much harder to get out from under something than it is to save then get it but no one wants to wait "I WANT IT NOW"

That is why some people will never have any money.

here is something I have said before. If you took everyones money away then gave everyone $10,000 I would bet the same people would end up rich again, For the most part anyway. Most would just pizz the 10K away but the smart working people would be rich again.







.

 

[redlineguy]

Dinner was delicious BTW

You obviously have an opinion on this ruffy, so lets hear it .....

Just some quick facts
The top 5% of earners pay 53% of all income taxes
The top 10% pay 65%
The top 50%, half of society, pays 96% of the income tax

Looks like we've got a lot of people sitting around not doing much ....

Forgot 1, The top 2% pay 40%






.

 

[2XM3]

Yes, that is why around 80% of all lottery winners over 1 million dollars are in worse financial positions 5 years after they recieve the money. They just can't understand how to budget the money and save.

 

[finnpacoutdoors]

I was hoping no one would reply to this Guy's post

 

[1Fast68]

I was hoping no one would reply to this FAG's post

Red Rep for you ...... Even if you don't agree with his thoughts or point of view on the matter, you might want to grow up and find a better way to express your feelings than calling him a Fag.

I hope for the sake of society, you never have children.