Front end washing out in deep snow

[needpowder]

Ok, phone died tonight so no pictures, but i compared my spindle angle to my buddy's timbersled. The ski bolt on my mototrax is about 3/4 inch behind my axle bolt. My bro's TS was more like an inch and a half. Our skis seemed to sit at the same angle on the floor. I'm riding tomorrow morning so if my ski washes out i'm gonna make an adjustment in my fork height first then try to replicate the condition it washed out in.
I sure hope it's not my spindle.
Picture: Bike is in the truck now so angles are slightly different but i wanted to show that the ski mount sits behind the axle bolt.

 

[miller tools]

Moto Trax

I have two Moto Trax kits one on a 2005 crf 250 and one on 2014 crf 450
The ski sits back about 1 inch on 250 rides good.
The 450 its sits ahead about 1.5 inch you cant ride it on hard park or trail its a death ride going to drill new holes in 450 and move it back.
Hope it helps

 

[TreewellDweller]

I have two Moto Trax kits one on a 2005 crf 250 and one on 2014 crf 450
The ski sits back about 1 inch on 250 rides good.
The 450 its sits ahead about 1.5 inch you cant ride it on hard park or trail its a death ride going to drill new holes in 450 and move it back.
Hope it helps

So where are you going to drill new holes to get the ski bolt to be 1" or more behind the axle bolt in the forks? Doesn't one need to grind the flat spot on the keeper bar to let it rotate back to change this alignment?

 

[HalfBrit]

I have two Moto Trax kits one on a 2005 crf 250 and one on 2014 crf 450
The ski sits back about 1 inch on 250 rides good.
The 450 its sits ahead about 1.5 inch you cant ride it on hard park or trail its a death ride going to drill new holes in 450 and move it back.
Hope it helps

It will help a lot. I thought It was just the wrong fit kit for mine. I had one from a husky on my 2011 crf450r. Anyhow I drilled it to move ski pivot point back behind the axle mounts. Night and day difference.

 

[needpowder]

I rode this weekend and tried moving the forks up in the triple clamps. I moved them twice. The second time ending up with the forks up about a half an inch over the top clamp. The handling just got worse and it didn't effect the washing out. I moved them back to where I started from--forks pretty much even with the top of the clamps.
I'm starting to feel it is the spindle.
I'm going to try to ride Wednesday evening. I'm thinking about playing with the rebound adjustment and possibly compression since those are easy. I hate tinkering with my bike on the hill when I only have limited time to ride. The problem is not terrible, it's still rides pretty well, I just feel like it could be better.

 

[wwillf01]

I would say the triple clamps as high as possible is best... So that would be flush... I am going to drop the rear so I can make the whole set up not as tall then have the ability to move the triple clamps down some from flush .

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[needpowder]

I would say the triple clamps as high as possible is best... So that would be flush... I am going to drop the rear so I can make the whole set up not as tall then have the ability to move the triple clamps down some from flush .

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Ya. I was actually thinking about dropping them a little bit below flush to see what it does.

 

[Hunters Recreational Products]

I hear what you were saying, but I used this carbide all last year without issue. My buddy who was riding with me on Wednesday has the triple point carbide as well and wasn't experiencing this issue so I don't think it is the culprit.
I'll take some pictures tonight comparing the angles with the different spindles.

Was away all weekend... just got back to this and realized my post could
be interpreted wrong. I was replying to Norma's question of whether or not carbides really mattered in deep/powdery snow. This could be interpreted a couple different ways, I meant that a runner of some sort is mandatory no matter what snow condition, compared to not needing one at all. Pretty sure I misunderstood the question. Metal of some sort on the bottom of the ski is necessary, im not necessarily endorsing the Timbersled u-thingies over the triple point. Those triple point carbides work well and that's what leads me to believe you have a spindle/geometry issue. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[needpowder]

Was away all weekend... just got back to this and realized my post could
be interpreted wrong. I was replying to Norma's question of whether or not carbides really mattered in deep/powdery snow. This could be interpreted a couple different ways, I meant that a runner of some sort is mandatory no matter what snow condition, compared to not needing one at all. Pretty sure I misunderstood the question. Metal of some sort on the bottom of the ski is necessary, im not necessarily endorsing the Timbersled u-thingies over the triple point. Those triple point carbides work well and that's what leads me to believe you have a spindle/geometry issue. Sorry for the confusion.

All good. I'm still hoping i can fix it with suspension tuning but also starting to believe it's the spindle causing me grief. It was shown to me this weekend just how much flex the Mototrax spindle has. Wow. Maybe that's contributing?
Looking at it in the garage tonight, seems like it would be pretty easy to drill new holes in the back changing the rake. So… That's another option to try.

 

[needpowder]

Solution

I put on the timber sled spindle last night. Luckily my dealer had the parts I need it in stock. Shout out to renegade motorsports in Salt Lake City. We got about 10 inches of snow last night but the wind blew hard it's very deep in spots. Night and day difference in the handling. All-around better.. Front end does not wash out nearly as easy now.better handling all around and I feel like I can turn sharper as well.I need to test a little more in different conditions, but right now I feel like it was the spindle that was the problem.

 

[Revv Up]

Maybe I missed it but..... what was the problem with the orrigional TS pedestal? I'm trying to sort out my own sketchy ski demons.

 

[jbmilek]

The three things I have done, Mototrax spindle and ski: These changes made huge improvement in trail manners and powder wash outs.

Ski bolt trailing the axle by 2". Redrilled new holes to change spindle angle. Also shimmed the rubber to keep the ski tip up.

Added runners to the front ski edges.

 

[MountainRider05]

I just picked up a husky with 17 ts120 le with tss with the mototrax spindle and timbersled ski. Ive only rode it a few times and i have noticed washing out at higher speeds in the deeper snow. i like the way feels lighter on the front vs my dads bike with fixed strut and timbersled front end.. but i think it might be a tad to light which will sometimes cause a washout. So hate to go back to timbersled spindle since i dnt have it. Hope i can maybe adjust suspension in the skid.. my forks are set flush with triple clamps. Curious on re drilling the spindle?? Hate to do that but might be worth it. Any other suggestions??

 

[HalfBrit]

I just picked up a husky with 17 ts120 le with tss with the mototrax spindle and timbersled ski. Ive only rode it a few times and i have noticed washing out at higher speeds in the deeper snow. i like the way feels lighter on the front vs my dads bike with fixed strut and timbersled front end.. but i think it might be a tad to light which will sometimes cause a washout. So hate to go back to timbersled spindle since i dnt have it. Hope i can maybe adjust suspension in the skid.. my forks are set flush with triple clamps. Curious on re drilling the spindle?? Hate to do that but might be worth it. Any other suggestions??

The washout in powder come from a loose rubber snubber. the front of the ski pushes up and then plows because of to steep of an attack angle.
Drilling
I redrilled mine twice. It was off the bike. it was in transport mode with the front mx wheel on. so I guessed on first holes.
You can have your bike in ready for snow stance. take the back bolts out of the spindle mount fit kit. line it up 1"-2" behind axle. drill and put bolts back in.
It makes a huge difference on the trail. I can drop into a corner fast and powerdrift out of the corner with the back end like a dirtbike.

 

[RMK935VA]

Maybe too simple but some of the TS riders have put the Yeti ski on and noticed a big difference. I have yet to wash out my front end out on my Yeti 129. Handlebar in the snow turns and it rails. I don't know if it is the ski or the spindle or both but it is very stable in the turns in deep snow and not bad down the trail. Now if I would quit blowing fork seals, I would be happy. Twice this year already. I don't know if it is the Air Pro or what. I have been running 20 lbs. psi.

 

[oldsno]

The ts ski can be moved,has 3 positions by moving bolts under spindle bracket that attaches it to ski...

 

[chumbilly1]

Maybe too simple but some of the TS riders have put the Yeti ski on and noticed a big difference. I have yet to wash out my front end out on my Yeti 129. Handlebar in the snow turns and it rails. I don't know if it is the ski or the spindle or both but it is very stable in the turns in deep snow and not bad down the trail. Now if I would quit blowing fork seals, I would be happy. Twice this year already. I don't know if it is the Air Pro or what. I have been running 20 lbs. psi.

Are you running forkskinz? If not it's ice. I am also running airpro. No problems

 

[xr650r]

ts spindle

My ts 120 is on 13 ktm 500. for summer I have forks and shock stortened 1.5 inches. was going to shoten ts shocks but run out of time. rode it and was happy with it. I use air pro kit , much better than using heavy springs, you can adjust it and don't have a hassle to ride in summer.! so have friends with new 450 sx ts 120 and 450 xc with mototrax and we think my set up works the best . I useing 7 psi in forks but I only wiegh 150 plus heavy back pack. useing stock ts spindle stock location. mototrax ski doesnt seem to work good in deep powder.

 

[TreewellDweller]

POOR HANDLING

The three things I have done, Mototrax spindle and ski: These changes made huge improvement in trail manners and powder wash outs.

Ski bolt trailing the axle by 2". Redrilled new holes to change spindle angle. Also shimmed the rubber to keep the ski tip up.

Added runners to the front ski edges.

Currently, my ski bolt is about 1.5 inches forward of my axle. I cannot roll my MotoTrax ski spindle back to a position to redrill the mounting bolts. The spindle hits the round bar that rests against the end of the fork tube. I am looking at spinning the complete spindle around and re-attaching. It appears that I would end up with a set back of almost 3 inches. Is this to much?
I can put a piece of flat steel 3/4" wide by 1/8" thick on top of the flat spot of the round bar and end up with about a 2 inch set back.
Has anyone done this?? Any thoughts??

 

[xr650r]

front end washing out

So one of the first things you havent mentioned is what do you weigh ? and how much air pressure in tss shock? how tall are you? and I believe you said you have 60 springs, first I think your springs are to stiff! and for sure your ski is off front to back! Do what ever you have to to get ski bolt in the 3/4 to 1inch trailing area with 3/4 in the best range! Depending on your weight you have to set tss pressure and adjust the rear shocks , although on the rear you don't move them much or they get to loose for the keeper or to tight and they can coil bind! If your tall I think you might be setting to far back on seat, I'm 5' 10" and I ride on very front of seat. I run the minium pressure in my tss shock and have my rear shocks softend 1 turn on front one and 3/4 on rear one. if you never bottom out your too stiff! my forks are shortened 1- 1/5 inches and my ski bolt is 3/4 back of spindle and doesn't wash out! One more thing I think you said you spacered your ski rubber so ski is presured up, wrong thing to do! if ski is more aimed up it wants to slow you down instead of slice through the snow because it's flatter against the snow and your runners can't bite the snow. And just like a bike with wheels if your setting to far back , it doesn't apply any pressure to ski to make it bite!