finally testing Honda's prototype
- Thread starter m8magicandmystery
- Start date
willikers...the most silent and invisible to us on the forums...likely the most deadly...
you guys do your proving on the snow and not on the forums..i respect that...
wicked nice...really appreciate the sharing
you guys do your proving on the snow and not on the forums..i respect that...
wicked nice...really appreciate the sharing
C
Cpt.Ron
Well-known member
Thanks
M8, ...thanks for the kind words.
Scott, ..I have some pics of the Pro, but I do not want to highjack this thread. Kind of a "wolf in sheeps clothing" that one is, ...deserving of it's own thread but my time is as limited as my prowess on computers. I'll see if I can get something together. Where would I put up any pics or info, under sleds builds??
As for the Honda, it was a concept, or a vision, born out of my love for motorcycles and the desire to potentially get away from CVT systems. There were some challenges as one would expect, anytime you are going off in your own direction, you can be sure that there will be some curve balls thrown. LOL! Like the 3 stage fuel system, (12 injectors), to keep the fuel curve making power with Boost up to 12,000rpm.
I have been a sledder for ever, or since 1967 anyway. As a past racer, of both sleds and cars, I have always been into innovation and have a passion for fabricating neat chit that goes fast.
Cheers
CR
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-09
M8, ...thanks for the kind words.
Scott, ..I have some pics of the Pro, but I do not want to highjack this thread. Kind of a "wolf in sheeps clothing" that one is, ...deserving of it's own thread but my time is as limited as my prowess on computers. I'll see if I can get something together. Where would I put up any pics or info, under sleds builds??
As for the Honda, it was a concept, or a vision, born out of my love for motorcycles and the desire to potentially get away from CVT systems. There were some challenges as one would expect, anytime you are going off in your own direction, you can be sure that there will be some curve balls thrown. LOL! Like the 3 stage fuel system, (12 injectors), to keep the fuel curve making power with Boost up to 12,000rpm.
I have been a sledder for ever, or since 1967 anyway. As a past racer, of both sleds and cars, I have always been into innovation and have a passion for fabricating neat chit that goes fast.
Cheers
CR
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-09
Last edited:
C
Cpt.Ron
Well-known member
watching Nascar from Pocono, ..but...
Ok Scott, seeing as you asked, I will pry myself away from the Nascar Race. Dale Jr., is currently in the lead, ..fingers crossed, hoping for an victory for #88!!!
The Pro in the picture is Laird's, (Triple Black on Snowest), new sled, finished in late April. These pictures were from the maiden trip, hence no seat on it yet.
It is complete custom 4130 chassis that we designed and fabricated especially for him. Laird sold his trusty T Nytro early last season and was contemplating a Nypex build, ..after great success with the Honda chassis and much thought, we decided to build a strong light chassis that would incorporate the best front and rear suspensions with big Apex four stroke turbo power. Hence we designed the chassis with the Polaris style front suspension via Z Bros. A arms and spindles. We opted for the Racers Edge rear skid with Elka shocks. A challenger 174"x16"x3" track. The power plant of choice of course is the Yamaha Apex engine, custom Alpine header, GT2871R turbo, Boost It fuel system combined with a Water to Air intercooler system. Combined with lots of other goodies, trick components and neat concepts.
I should mention, that we opted for components that we know work in our applications. There are as many brands and varieties of performance components as there are opinions of the individuals that purchase them. We know what works for us here in our back yard. Not saying that other products are not comparable.
End result..., the fastest sled that I have ever ridden personally, ..it flat out ROCKS!!!
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-09
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-08
CR
Ok Scott, seeing as you asked, I will pry myself away from the Nascar Race. Dale Jr., is currently in the lead, ..fingers crossed, hoping for an victory for #88!!!
The Pro in the picture is Laird's, (Triple Black on Snowest), new sled, finished in late April. These pictures were from the maiden trip, hence no seat on it yet.
It is complete custom 4130 chassis that we designed and fabricated especially for him. Laird sold his trusty T Nytro early last season and was contemplating a Nypex build, ..after great success with the Honda chassis and much thought, we decided to build a strong light chassis that would incorporate the best front and rear suspensions with big Apex four stroke turbo power. Hence we designed the chassis with the Polaris style front suspension via Z Bros. A arms and spindles. We opted for the Racers Edge rear skid with Elka shocks. A challenger 174"x16"x3" track. The power plant of choice of course is the Yamaha Apex engine, custom Alpine header, GT2871R turbo, Boost It fuel system combined with a Water to Air intercooler system. Combined with lots of other goodies, trick components and neat concepts.
I should mention, that we opted for components that we know work in our applications. There are as many brands and varieties of performance components as there are opinions of the individuals that purchase them. We know what works for us here in our back yard. Not saying that other products are not comparable.
End result..., the fastest sled that I have ever ridden personally, ..it flat out ROCKS!!!
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-09
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-08
CR
hahaha...a real man cave..^^^^^
Cpt Ron what would a "Pro" like that cost to build? Weight? Why do you call it a Pro? I would call it a CR! I really like the idea of tube frame builds. Strong, light, easy to repair and full custom. Have you ever thought about tying in the front bumper to the rear bumper through the running boards or brush bars that ran outside the front body work? That back leg of triangulation from the steering post to the back of the running board has to really stiffen that whole sled up.
C
Cpt.Ron
Well-known member
Hi Matt
Thanks for your interest Matt,
Please dont ask me how much..., pricing can vary so wildly depending on the options and state of completion. PM for details.
As for my reference to Laird's Sled as a "Pro", ...I am only referring to body panels for reference purposes..
As per Laird's design requests, the stock Polaris panels fit in full configuration on this chassis, from front bumper to seat. Beyond these parameters, it is custom.
In design discussions... , Laird was looking for a chassis that would transfer the surface forces through an effiecent suspension system. Hence the triangulation from the rear suspension mount up through to the chassis centre point, which further tranfers the force directly to the front suspension. (I am currently engaging design input from Performance shock Mfg's for custom shock applications for this chassis.)
.....I apologise to M8 for getting off track for the thread.
Cheers
CR
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-09
Thanks for your interest Matt,
Please dont ask me how much..., pricing can vary so wildly depending on the options and state of completion. PM for details.
As for my reference to Laird's Sled as a "Pro", ...I am only referring to body panels for reference purposes..
As per Laird's design requests, the stock Polaris panels fit in full configuration on this chassis, from front bumper to seat. Beyond these parameters, it is custom.
In design discussions... , Laird was looking for a chassis that would transfer the surface forces through an effiecent suspension system. Hence the triangulation from the rear suspension mount up through to the chassis centre point, which further tranfers the force directly to the front suspension. (I am currently engaging design input from Performance shock Mfg's for custom shock applications for this chassis.)
.....I apologise to M8 for getting off track for the thread.
Cheers
CR
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-09
Great job CR and Lairdo!!! Very nice craftmanship on that one for sure!! Keep the pictures flowing for all to see. BC.
C
Cpt.Ron
Well-known member
White and orange...
Scott, ...yeah that white and orange colour combo is pretty much a "give-away", ...his trademark so to speak, ..LOL!
As for weight, we don't have a final number, ..but I would predict that it is right around 500 even, with half plus tank of fuel, (..and no seat, hahaha).
The chassis is very light, but as we all know, when you start bolting on 4 stroke turbo engines, 174" tracks, things gain weight quickly. IT IS the lightest turbo 4 stroke 174" that I have lifted around, ..by far!!
Final weight is always a consideration when one sets out to build a custom sled, however, we have long since learned the hard way, ..components that are "too" lite have issues as well, and they usually dont survive rolling down out of the 90!! LOL!
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-10
Scott, ...yeah that white and orange colour combo is pretty much a "give-away", ...his trademark so to speak, ..LOL!
As for weight, we don't have a final number, ..but I would predict that it is right around 500 even, with half plus tank of fuel, (..and no seat, hahaha).
The chassis is very light, but as we all know, when you start bolting on 4 stroke turbo engines, 174" tracks, things gain weight quickly. IT IS the lightest turbo 4 stroke 174" that I have lifted around, ..by far!!
Final weight is always a consideration when one sets out to build a custom sled, however, we have long since learned the hard way, ..components that are "too" lite have issues as well, and they usually dont survive rolling down out of the 90!! LOL!
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-10
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
Way too cool build....
I have to ask because I've always wondered.....motorcycle clutch and transmission on a snowmobile....does it work well?? Do you think it will ever emerge as a viable alternative to the current CVT systems and their numerous pitfalls/shortcomings?
I have to ask because I've always wondered.....motorcycle clutch and transmission on a snowmobile....does it work well?? Do you think it will ever emerge as a viable alternative to the current CVT systems and their numerous pitfalls/shortcomings?
C
Cpt.Ron
Well-known member
Shifting a sled
Jay and Scott,
The Klicktronic system that I use is handlebar mounted push buttons, green for down, red for up shift.
Will it ever replace the CVT, ..in a nutshell, NO!
I am not done playing with this combination, it is very cool is so many ways, but has a number of shortcomings. The standard transmission transmits HP way more effeciently than a CVT. When we first started looking into this concept, I researched CVT's, at their most effecient range of engagement, which is from slow speed thru to mid range shift out, they will optimise at around 75% effeciency. Beyond the optimal range, they pretty much suck. then of course there are the belt heat issues which further make the effeciency worse.
The standard transmission really does put the HP to the track/snow. That being said, there are inherent issues that will be difficult to overcome. I need to revise some of my system and gear ratios, (goes too fast), to try to make the shifting easier, but there is a lot going on all of a sudden. It is not like getting onto a CVT sled and pulling the throttle. One must be a lot more conscience of things, hand positions, light glove to feel the shift buttons, ..it is not straight forward, ..but I enjoy the heck out of it.
I only run the engine on 5lbs boost and it pulls like a freight train, ..but shifting in mid climb is not a viable option as yet, need to select the gear before the climb and have faith, ..lol. I dont have a head shim in the engine and they are high compression engines to start with, hence the 5 lbs. Occassionally I run it up to 7-8 lbs, it loves pulling third gear wheelies across the lake by the cabin on Boulder, however, it is very fast in third gear, ..you run out of lake in a hearbeat...lol.
Not for everyone, but it is fun!!
Cheers
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-09
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-09
CR
Jay and Scott,
The Klicktronic system that I use is handlebar mounted push buttons, green for down, red for up shift.
Will it ever replace the CVT, ..in a nutshell, NO!
I am not done playing with this combination, it is very cool is so many ways, but has a number of shortcomings. The standard transmission transmits HP way more effeciently than a CVT. When we first started looking into this concept, I researched CVT's, at their most effecient range of engagement, which is from slow speed thru to mid range shift out, they will optimise at around 75% effeciency. Beyond the optimal range, they pretty much suck. then of course there are the belt heat issues which further make the effeciency worse.
The standard transmission really does put the HP to the track/snow. That being said, there are inherent issues that will be difficult to overcome. I need to revise some of my system and gear ratios, (goes too fast), to try to make the shifting easier, but there is a lot going on all of a sudden. It is not like getting onto a CVT sled and pulling the throttle. One must be a lot more conscience of things, hand positions, light glove to feel the shift buttons, ..it is not straight forward, ..but I enjoy the heck out of it.
I only run the engine on 5lbs boost and it pulls like a freight train, ..but shifting in mid climb is not a viable option as yet, need to select the gear before the climb and have faith, ..lol. I dont have a head shim in the engine and they are high compression engines to start with, hence the 5 lbs. Occassionally I run it up to 7-8 lbs, it loves pulling third gear wheelies across the lake by the cabin on Boulder, however, it is very fast in third gear, ..you run out of lake in a hearbeat...lol.
Not for everyone, but it is fun!!
Cheers
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-09
By cpt_ron at 2012-06-09
CR
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
Glad someone with more fabrication skills than I has tried it at least!
Kinda like hill climbing on a dirtbike....shifting 1/2 way up is usually not realistic. If you picked too high of a gear, can you simply feather the clutch, or feather the clutch in general for "traction control" ala dirtbike technique....or is that behaviour not realistic with the higher power/load a sled produces?
