I say we send a few wolves to Central Park in NYC and a few other large city parks, and all the wolf lovers can go to their parks and pet the pretty wolves there.
Federal judge Molloy is a MORON!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter bullfrog123
- Start date
We agree with most of what you say and we know you don't want to shoot a judge but if it was me I would have the thread pulled befor someone takes you serious. Eric
I think he wasn't siding against ya there bubba....read his post carefully and pay attention. This is public forum(doesnt' really matter since congress gave bush what he wanted) and teh feds can spy away on what we type. And it is not smiled upon to threaten a judge no matter if the intent is not real. Kinda like saying bomb at the airport.
I'm as pissed as the next guy, I was hoping to bag a nice wolf skin thsi winter here in MN.
I knew there was a reason for why you are the way you are ruffy...white chocolate macadamia nut cookie eaters
The point you guys that aren't from the area don't get is the anti-wolf attitude is not an "extremest" atittude for the MAIN STREAM population in these states.-the same could be said for those living in Iran or the caves of Afkanistan.
frog, the arguement for fear about leaving home, could this not be turned to pit bulls or bangers in the urban areas? Hell I lived in the country and the hood and I was worried in both areas.
Also glad to see you cleared the air about the title...just remember the suits don't care the circumstances.
frog, the arguement for fear about leaving home, could this not be turned to pit bulls or bangers in the urban areas? Hell I lived in the country and the hood and I was worried in both areas.
Also glad to see you cleared the air about the title...just remember the suits don't care the circumstances.
That, and my second toe is longer than my big toe!
ohh yeah...down with the long second toe freaks....that chit is disturbing.
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Bubba700
ACCOUNT CLOSED
Comparing people that are mad about their lively hood being affected to terrorist is a bit of strectch IMO. Did I ever say "kill everyone that is for the wolves?" or anything to that decree? The whole point with the judge is that he made a desicion opposite of the supporting studys, opposite of the popular opinion in the area in question. Do I want him shot nope, do I think he is a moron and wouldnt feel bad if he got crabs or other irratating things happen to him, probably not. Karma IMO. To the person who made the comparison about gang bangers (lol) and such when you leave your house. MOVE Plus we do have things to try and curetail these problems, dog catchers police etc. We didn't have a problem with the wolves that we had before they pushed this on us and now we do yet they are not puting any effort into letting us try and fix the problem.
I don't have a problem with wolves being there. What I do have a problem with is not letting there be any control over the population so that it gets out of hand. In nature there has to be a balance and right now the wolf population is way way out of balance for the areas that the wolves are in. Sorry If I would like to see that balance brought back before all of our hunting opportunities are gone because the herds have been depleted so bad.
I don't have a problem with wolves being there. What I do have a problem with is not letting there be any control over the population so that it gets out of hand. In nature there has to be a balance and right now the wolf population is way way out of balance for the areas that the wolves are in. Sorry If I would like to see that balance brought back before all of our hunting opportunities are gone because the herds have been depleted so bad.
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Bubba700
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bullfrog123
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There --- title is fixed. Sound a little better?
well done!!!!
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Bubba700
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I bet they just called off the sniper team that was going to take you out frog. haha
S
sldgy
Guest
My, my, a little touchy here aren't we? Passionate is good but attacking SW peeps is a bit unnecessary.
We could just start shooting each other. Duel anyone?
We could just start shooting each other. Duel anyone?
only after you've burned a couple down!
Ok so maybe bangers wasn't the best comparison...but we do have ways of controlling wolves...isn't a federal trapper just a dog catcher with more power?
Like I said before, I really wanted to get me a wolf skin this winter.
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Bubba700
ACCOUNT CLOSED
Negatory, if it is an animal on the endangered list than they can only trap the wolf after it has proved to be a nusanse (sp?) or has caused physical harm to a human.
If they are on the endagered list you can't do anything legaly to control them. You have to sit back and wait until they destroy your property before anything can be done.
R
rideh2o
Member
What about Molloy shutting down snowmobiles in the Flathead & Swan valleys?
March 15th we will all be shut out of the woods unless the Forest Service can get Molloy to reverse his decision!
Judge halts Flathead National Forest spring snowmobiling
KALISPELL - Springtime snowmobiling has been shut down on the Flathead National Forest, with a federal judge agreeing the machines could pose a threat to grizzly bears emerging from winter dens.
Forest officials had argued existing road-density rules - intended to protect grizzlies - did not apply to snowmobiles. But U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy, in a May 28 ruling, agreed with environmentalists that the road rules should, in fact, cover snowmobile use as well.
A new forest rule could override that court opinion, forest officials said, but still at issue is an underlying U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service opinion that declared springtime snowmobiling would not harm bears. Molloy took issue with the way that opinion was reached, and ordered FWS to try again.
The case was filed last year by the Swan View Coalition and Friends of the Wild Swan, in response to a 2005 Flathead Forest decision that extended snowmobiling through the end of May in some areas.
Forest officials argued their new snowmobile rules actually helped bears, by reducing the total area open to winter machines. But, plaintiffs said, the new rules also increased the total area open during the critical spring months.
“The government admitted springtime snowmobiling can harm, if not kill, female grizzly bears with young emerging from their dens,” Swan View Coalition Chairman Keith Hammer said in a May 29 release. “We're glad the judge saw through the twisted logic claiming this was a benefit to bears.”
In implementing the extended seasons, Forest officials relied upon analysis by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which found springtime snowmobiling would have “no discernible effects” on the bears.
But that analysis, the court found, was grounded in data collected from areas where spring snowmobiling already was tolerated, if not officially permitted. In short, the baseline was tainted.
Molloy concluded that “by relying upon the degraded conditions resulting from the Forest Service's refusal to enforce its own ban on spring snowmobiling, the Fish and Wildlife Service was able to bolster the alleged benefits to grizzly bears ... when in fact the Forest Plan was changed to allow more spring snowmobiling than was permitted before. This manipulation of the (Endangered Species Act) process renders the Fish and Wildlife Service's analysis and ‘no jeopardy' conclusion unreliable.”
Molloy tossed the FWS analysis, and along with it the extended seasons, ordering the Forest to follow its own rules regarding seasonal grizzly bear security until a new opinion might be crafted.
“He invalidated the Fish and Wildlife Service opinion, so this needs a Fish and Wildlife fix,” said Joe Krueger, environmental coordinator on the Flathead Forest. “We're already working with the Fish and Wildlife Service to discuss the next step.”
That step could be a revised opinion, arrived at in a new way but still showing “no discernable effects.”
“We still believe that spring snowmobiling is an appropriate use of Flathead National Forest Lands,” Krueger said, adding that regardless of the methodology behind the opinion, the result was clear - no jeopardy to bears.
“And we don't expect that to change,” he said.
But Hammer, for one, is banking on that changing. He emphasized that Molloy's decision was important for the recovery of the species; snowmobilers, he said, now will have to shut down their machines as of mid-March, before most grizzlies exit their winter dens.
Hammer added that he hopes the ruling sticks, and that “the Forest Service will now do away with this unprecedented spring snowmobiling permanently, so we don't end up right back in court again.”
Hell, the Forest Service can park on the Highway, follow our trailers and write tickets as we unload if it stays like this!
The Wolf problem is important, but what about us sledders eh?
March 15th we will all be shut out of the woods unless the Forest Service can get Molloy to reverse his decision!
Judge halts Flathead National Forest spring snowmobiling
KALISPELL - Springtime snowmobiling has been shut down on the Flathead National Forest, with a federal judge agreeing the machines could pose a threat to grizzly bears emerging from winter dens.
Forest officials had argued existing road-density rules - intended to protect grizzlies - did not apply to snowmobiles. But U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy, in a May 28 ruling, agreed with environmentalists that the road rules should, in fact, cover snowmobile use as well.
A new forest rule could override that court opinion, forest officials said, but still at issue is an underlying U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service opinion that declared springtime snowmobiling would not harm bears. Molloy took issue with the way that opinion was reached, and ordered FWS to try again.
The case was filed last year by the Swan View Coalition and Friends of the Wild Swan, in response to a 2005 Flathead Forest decision that extended snowmobiling through the end of May in some areas.
Forest officials argued their new snowmobile rules actually helped bears, by reducing the total area open to winter machines. But, plaintiffs said, the new rules also increased the total area open during the critical spring months.
“The government admitted springtime snowmobiling can harm, if not kill, female grizzly bears with young emerging from their dens,” Swan View Coalition Chairman Keith Hammer said in a May 29 release. “We're glad the judge saw through the twisted logic claiming this was a benefit to bears.”
In implementing the extended seasons, Forest officials relied upon analysis by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which found springtime snowmobiling would have “no discernible effects” on the bears.
But that analysis, the court found, was grounded in data collected from areas where spring snowmobiling already was tolerated, if not officially permitted. In short, the baseline was tainted.
Molloy concluded that “by relying upon the degraded conditions resulting from the Forest Service's refusal to enforce its own ban on spring snowmobiling, the Fish and Wildlife Service was able to bolster the alleged benefits to grizzly bears ... when in fact the Forest Plan was changed to allow more spring snowmobiling than was permitted before. This manipulation of the (Endangered Species Act) process renders the Fish and Wildlife Service's analysis and ‘no jeopardy' conclusion unreliable.”
Molloy tossed the FWS analysis, and along with it the extended seasons, ordering the Forest to follow its own rules regarding seasonal grizzly bear security until a new opinion might be crafted.
“He invalidated the Fish and Wildlife Service opinion, so this needs a Fish and Wildlife fix,” said Joe Krueger, environmental coordinator on the Flathead Forest. “We're already working with the Fish and Wildlife Service to discuss the next step.”
That step could be a revised opinion, arrived at in a new way but still showing “no discernable effects.”
“We still believe that spring snowmobiling is an appropriate use of Flathead National Forest Lands,” Krueger said, adding that regardless of the methodology behind the opinion, the result was clear - no jeopardy to bears.
“And we don't expect that to change,” he said.
But Hammer, for one, is banking on that changing. He emphasized that Molloy's decision was important for the recovery of the species; snowmobilers, he said, now will have to shut down their machines as of mid-March, before most grizzlies exit their winter dens.
Hammer added that he hopes the ruling sticks, and that “the Forest Service will now do away with this unprecedented spring snowmobiling permanently, so we don't end up right back in court again.”
Hell, the Forest Service can park on the Highway, follow our trailers and write tickets as we unload if it stays like this!
The Wolf problem is important, but what about us sledders eh?
M
mtn_extreme
Well-known member
" The whole point with the judge is that he made a desicion opposite of the supporting studys, opposite of the popular opinion in the area in question."
If you read the article closer you would see that Judge Molloy made the decision because Wyoming will not get on board with Idaho and Montana who have good management plans in place (according to Molloy). His purpose is to get Wyoming to get in line (in my opinion).
Personally, I agree with Wyomings thinking........but I also think that the way the feds are playing it means maybe Wyoming should devise a better plan so as not to hurt the other states. A couple more years from now with no control and the elk will have to be listed as endangered
For those that ask, here is a good place to start-
www.saveelk.com
The more organized opposition, the better!
If you read the article closer you would see that Judge Molloy made the decision because Wyoming will not get on board with Idaho and Montana who have good management plans in place (according to Molloy). His purpose is to get Wyoming to get in line (in my opinion).
Personally, I agree with Wyomings thinking........but I also think that the way the feds are playing it means maybe Wyoming should devise a better plan so as not to hurt the other states. A couple more years from now with no control and the elk will have to be listed as endangered
For those that ask, here is a good place to start-
www.saveelk.com
The more organized opposition, the better!
mtn extreme is making a very valid point. we would have been hunting wolves 2 years ago, but wyomings plan would not work out. . the feds ok montanas and idahos plan years ago.
Also it is funny, but the nez perce tribe in idaho is one of the main reasons the wolve where brought back in 1995.
Main stream consenesu in idaho is there is no consensue. I have found just as many people for the wolf in idaho as i have against the wolve.
tim
Also it is funny, but the nez perce tribe in idaho is one of the main reasons the wolve where brought back in 1995.
Main stream consenesu in idaho is there is no consensue. I have found just as many people for the wolf in idaho as i have against the wolve.
tim
March 15th we will all be shut out of the woods unless the Forest Service can get Molloy to reverse his decision!
Judge halts Flathead National Forest spring snowmobiling
KALISPELL - Springtime snowmobiling has been shut down on the Flathead National Forest, with a federal judge agreeing the machines could pose a threat to grizzly bears emerging from winter dens.
Forest officials had argued existing road-density rules - intended to protect grizzlies - did not apply to snowmobiles. But U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy, in a May 28 ruling, agreed with environmentalists that the road rules should, in fact, cover snowmobile use as well.
A new forest rule could override that court opinion, forest officials said, but still at issue is an underlying U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service opinion that declared springtime snowmobiling would not harm bears. Molloy took issue with the way that opinion was reached, and ordered FWS to try again.
The case was filed last year by the Swan View Coalition and Friends of the Wild Swan, in response to a 2005 Flathead Forest decision that extended snowmobiling through the end of May in some areas.
Forest officials argued their new snowmobile rules actually helped bears, by reducing the total area open to winter machines. But, plaintiffs said, the new rules also increased the total area open during the critical spring months.
“The government admitted springtime snowmobiling can harm, if not kill, female grizzly bears with young emerging from their dens,” Swan View Coalition Chairman Keith Hammer said in a May 29 release. “We're glad the judge saw through the twisted logic claiming this was a benefit to bears.”
In implementing the extended seasons, Forest officials relied upon analysis by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which found springtime snowmobiling would have “no discernible effects” on the bears.
But that analysis, the court found, was grounded in data collected from areas where spring snowmobiling already was tolerated, if not officially permitted. In short, the baseline was tainted.
Molloy concluded that “by relying upon the degraded conditions resulting from the Forest Service's refusal to enforce its own ban on spring snowmobiling, the Fish and Wildlife Service was able to bolster the alleged benefits to grizzly bears ... when in fact the Forest Plan was changed to allow more spring snowmobiling than was permitted before. This manipulation of the (Endangered Species Act) process renders the Fish and Wildlife Service's analysis and ‘no jeopardy' conclusion unreliable.”
Molloy tossed the FWS analysis, and along with it the extended seasons, ordering the Forest to follow its own rules regarding seasonal grizzly bear security until a new opinion might be crafted.
“He invalidated the Fish and Wildlife Service opinion, so this needs a Fish and Wildlife fix,” said Joe Krueger, environmental coordinator on the Flathead Forest. “We're already working with the Fish and Wildlife Service to discuss the next step.”
That step could be a revised opinion, arrived at in a new way but still showing “no discernable effects.”
“We still believe that spring snowmobiling is an appropriate use of Flathead National Forest Lands,” Krueger said, adding that regardless of the methodology behind the opinion, the result was clear - no jeopardy to bears.
“And we don't expect that to change,” he said.
But Hammer, for one, is banking on that changing. He emphasized that Molloy's decision was important for the recovery of the species; snowmobilers, he said, now will have to shut down their machines as of mid-March, before most grizzlies exit their winter dens.
Hammer added that he hopes the ruling sticks, and that “the Forest Service will now do away with this unprecedented spring snowmobiling permanently, so we don't end up right back in court again.”
Hell, the Forest Service can park on the Highway, follow our trailers and write tickets as we unload if it stays like this!
The Wolf problem is important, but what about us sledders eh?
i hate this cause they are shuttin down skiline, next they will shutdown copper creek too, then what do we do!!!!!!!!!!!
My thoughts exactly. Kinda make's a person wonder, how much the greenies slid under his door mat!
