Excessive belt heat, help me out.

[Wheel House Motorsports]

ALright, the yamadoo is not very happy with spring snow.

i got the motor alignment pretty dang good, its nothing to brag about, but very close and even with a large pry bar i can barely tweak the thing in the chassis, so i think its pretty well seated. the secondary is floated with about 1/4" of movement side to side right now, so i know its always good when on the throttle. when i stop it is nice and aligned properly.

clutching is
primary
14.5 rollers
8BU's loaded
blue green blue

secondary
straight 45 helix
ac green spring wraped to 20*

boost is looking around 12-14 most of the time. i am fighting a small exhaust leak so it does like to fade a little on power in the deep snow. BUT, i made a long sidehill, and rpm faded from 10400 down to like 9000 by the end and the clutches would BURN your hands.. any thoughts?? if i dont stop and keep my clutches cooled down i can blow belts in 50 miles easy.

 

[thamax]

your slipping your secondary. i am not a fan of 8bu weights just don't work that well i would go stm or dalton they have some really good profiles! a straight 45 degree helix is pretty shallow for tree bashing like u do. prob a 47-48 is what u should be running i actually use epi purple springs the green will slip on you. I also run the CPC red white and works good at high boost. 50 miles is pretty bad on one belt i would start with the secondary and go from there, can u show us some pics of where the belt is getting damaged, and what sheaves look like too?

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

i can make the belt last a lot longer, i just cant ride for very long making any amount of back to back pulls on the thing. also, i do usually tree bash, but in spring snow my sled is way to heavy to do that in, so i have just been playing in moderate sized chutes, so im making 30 second + wot runs and that is whats making them stupid hot. it will pull great until i hit fresh snow then it just bogs down, rpm drops and the the clutches get freakin HOT!!

as far as the weights, i would like to get a new set, but i got about 2 months of riding left and very low budget, i just wanted to try and figure out wtf it is doing this.. i know this is a pretty common setup and is not very fun to have to sit around all day with snow on the clutches.

sheaves dont look to bad on the primary.. i just took the secondary apart.. looks pretty clean and then about 1" from the bottom there is a thick arse rubber ring. like its getting to full shift when i take off then just locking there and not backshifting. thats what a few people have thought of and it would confirm it. i can get an epi purple to try, also, could i wrap the chit out of the green to try and help it??

also, my helix has some small grooves in it from the buttons. the buttons also ahve a little wear in them, maybe 1/32" of an inch... sound alright??

 

[philsummers21]

I have my green spring @50. I used to have the epi purple and it didn't seem to work as well as the cat spring. Where do you ride? Been wanting someone to take me sledn Out of bozeman

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

i ride all around bozo.. your more then welcome to come along if your in the neighborhood.


and for the wraping.. i need to get it into a press or something or get someone to help me as wrapping it much more is getting way to hard solo.. i have had it set pretty soft. i just pulled it into the garage and my skis were sticking in the soft grass in the yard and i could watch the primary just pull the belt into the secondary a little bit and not even move. the primary got warm ot the touch just pulling the thing into the garage.... about 50' of yard and pavement.

 

[TApeX_07]

Ya dude I would definatley tighten up that secondary! I run a AC green at 40* and I havent a belt problem yet.

 

[canucklehead]

That's a pretty decent setup you have. Wrap the sec as tight as you can by yourself or get help to do it. The 45 helix is good. You will smoke more belts with a steeper one.

 

[philsummers21]

And for the helix im running a shockwave set around 47° so id say your just about right at 45° might have to take you up on ridin as well. Should get my arp headstuds in wednessday and be ready to ride by the weekend.

 

[boostedballz]

Just from left feild but when the machine acted up while you were sidehilling did you happen to be cutting on the clutch side? I chased a slippage issue on my apex for a long time before I figured out I had snow coming in near my shock tower and getting on my clutches.Every time I would carve hard to the left I could smell belt and clutch. Make sure your side panels and belly pan are tight to the chassis for a good seal. I ended up using silicone on the belly pan, mesh on hood vents to keep my clutches dry. A long shot but it might save you some aggrivation. The set up you have in there sounds good.

LL

 

[zebiraross]

Belt slip seems to always be coorelated with snow creeping into the clutches, and/or not enough tip weight in your weights.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

hmmm... i know that my sled definately can get snow in the panels. not questions asked... they are far from perfect, custom mesh jobbers. i do have my stock on for the left side in decent condition, i might pack it on the hill this weekend and give it a shot.. im wondering if in the warmer weather, pow is setting on the mesh and melting throught and getting onto the clutches.. hmmm....that could easily do it.

and it was definately some deep wet pow the last few days out.

I will wrap my primary a little more and give the panel a shot..

 

[thamax]

u can wrap that current spring as tight as u can get it. just make sure it doesn't bind and cause it not to shift out. could be a moisture problem like stated above. 30 seconds is short pull u should be able to touch your clutches after that. whats the max rpms u are seeing. i know its end of the season no need to spend money just try some different things out but belts are no cheap so you kind of want to figure it out does it burn just one spot on the belt or actually separate the cords?

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

i am gonna try to get a little more wrap in the spring, but i know something else is going on....

max rpm when stayin on some normal snow is about about 10,300-10,500.. and thats because my header/turbo flange leaks a hair and isnt allowing me to hold quite the boost i want.. ideally i want it holding 10,600 and not move.

it will seperate cords.. i got one so hot recently, it snapped cruising across a meadow in cooke just low load doing like 35.. the thing split into layers on the cords.. more so then normally happens. this was just gentle carves back and forth in about 1' of fresh.. so if snow is the problem, thats where it would happen. i need to look at the bottom seam on my panel as i think its acting like a little scooper right now and misting snow onto the clutche,s before i wrecked my paneling and had plastic, my belts lasted 300+ miles with sub par alignment.. the worst i have seen my rpm drop was on a long left sidehill recently in deep pow.. hmmmmm time to experiment.

 

[Turbo11T]

get it figured out. . . . .

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

nope... its horrible.

rode it last night for a few hours and it was out of control making heat.

wrapped the secondary spring to 50* to try and deal with it... not much help. after cruising the trail in and making a few maybe 2-3 second WOT runs up little mounds, the clutches were getting very warm.. from ice cold i make one pull, probably 15-20 seconds wot in some deeper snow and it was boiling the snow i threw on it on parts of the clutch... I know it isnt snow ingestion as that first hill i did was some nasty slushy spring snow and the front end was nowhere near the ground the whole time.

I took my primary apart and it moves all good like its spoosed to, rollers move nice, weights, etc... so the clutches seem to be working find.. just cant seem to figure it out.

 

[northern turbo]

change weights

In my experience loaded 8bu are not enough for 12#+. I had belt problems with 8bu @ about 58 grams. Changed to heavy hitters @ 64 grams have not changed a belt since(season and a half). Simliar clutching TRX.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

interesting..
i also noticed i never had belt problems first half of the seaons running 10-12#.. and since i turned it up to around 14/15 my rpm is still pretty good, but now it gets insanely hot. i have battle header leaks all season so boost has been a bit lower, but now that it runs right and i got it turned up a little, that might be causing it. early season i was running leftover belts and getting 250-300 miles out of them. and i wasnt nice to them either. also, my motor alignment was a little imperfect then as well.

i know the first half of the season i rode the crap out of the sled, rode it hard all the time and rarely slowed down. i put on days of back to back pulls in the woods that would kill 1 belt per run now.. i might try taking it out for a short run and turning the boost down some and see what it does. I have been thinking of trying the poorman upgrades to get some more weight in the 8bu's. as im not willing to dumb a lot of money into it right now.

 

[Givemeaboost]

Poor Man Weights

Hey Nick , take those wieghts out and weld about 3 grams on each one from the tip to the middle. USE a wire feed and just add a little at a time so it doesn't get too hot. I've added and ground off mine several times over the last seven years. Right now I run 63 grams and it holds 19# boost.

Ken.....

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

sounds good.. im gonna loosen my secondary up a hair and try that out.. I am also gonna do some nuts/bolts in the weights so i can try and add some on the hill or weld and bring bolts to adjust up.

I also think winding my secondary so tight with such a soft primary setup is making it slip the belt. i cranked the preload from 20-50* last ride and it was even worse. one 15 second pull and they get litterally boiling hot. the ac spring is super strong, so i think winding it so much is not allowing the sled to shift out at all. iwas looking at my clutches and it doesnt look like im getting near the shift out I was earlier in the seaon.

what i have noticed is my rpms right now when the clutches are cold shoot to around 11k off the line, so im not loading the thing enough, but then its just slipping and getting hot and i lose rpm. i feel like i have been tuning backwards for a while now just makign it worse.


I have been reading through all the old clutching threads i can find on ty4stroke from when guys were first getting these things figured out and it looks like my primary setup is good when running with the yami white secondary spring, the ac is much stiffer, so i need to balance them out.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

alright, more playing..

dropped the preload on the secondary down to 1-0... MUCH better. pulls much harder at 10# then it did at 14 last weekend. primary still getting very hot, and noticably warmer then the secondary. nuked a belt when i tried running at 14# for a bit.... was pulling high 10's for rpm and getting things HOT! but the snow was 3' of soft spring pow with no real solid base.

what i noticed is that even in the 1-0 position, the cat spring is wrapped about 30-40* to install. it was a 2 person job, so im gonna try and figure out what to do to get it with almost no wrap on it. I will see how that does for me. also, at 10# of boost im revving 10,100 rpm. I want to add weight to grab harder, but am worried that im going to start loosing to much rpm from it.