EVERYONE - ALERT!! Please READ !!

[Snappy Sledder]

What i think Mike is getting to slim is that pulling the cord 90+deg isnt how you should pull the cord. Are you really going to be pulling it straight above your head? no. Straight out? maybe. But it is better to pull it more down than out so you wont break the cord OR have a failure somewhere in the pack. So really if you think about it Mike is telling you something you should PRACTICE. Like football. You wouldnt have your team step out on the field for the first time and just say go have fun w/o practice would you? So why head to the mountain without practicing pulling the cord fast and efficiently and finding beacons fast and correctly? Just my .02

 

[snowww1]

Vector Boy,
Thanks for trying to clear this up.

Idaho Slim,
I give up trying to get you to understand. I've been teaching avalanche classes for 15 years, been advocating avalanche packs for years, own all three brands of packs, have looked at all the accident statistics for ABS avalanche packs, look at all the avalanche statistics every year, talked to many students who have deployed packs in avalanches, and have used all the packs. I have also talked to some of the biggest retailers of avalanche air bags packs who have deployed hundreds and the manufacturers who deploy 100's and 100's of times a year. They confirm what I am saying. The manufacturers have trained me on the use of their packs.
The facts are that only about 5% of the people who are caught in avalanches do not deploy the packs. Get this straight: 95% of the people have the composure to pull the handle. If you deploy the pack, you have a 98% chance of having the pack visible on the surface or you visible on the surface. People do have the composure to pull the handle. It is suggested that you pull the handle before the avalanche hits you or as you are trying to get out of the way of the avalanche. People do have the composure to pull the handle while engulfed in an avalanche, just as a whitewater kayaker has the composure to pull the grab loop on a spray skirt in class 5 rapids. Same thing with sky diving. It all happens because of training, practice, thinking and memory.

Honestly Slim, have you ever taken an avalanche class?

Just a heads up: Read the directions, practice pulling the handle,practice reaching for the handle, deploy the pack before the avalanche hits you (which I know is not always possible, since you can get blind sided).

 

[Idaho Slim]

Vector Boy,
Thanks for trying to clear this up.

Idaho Slim,
I give up trying to get you to understand. I've been teaching avalanche classes for 15 years, been advocating avalanche packs for years, own all three brands of packs, have looked at all the accident statistics for ABS avalanche packs, look at all the avalanche statistics every year, talked to many students who have deployed packs in avalanches, and have used all the packs. I have also talked to some of the biggest retailers of avalanche air bags packs who have deployed hundreds and the manufacturers who deploy 100's and 100's of times a year. They confirm what I am saying. The manufacturers have trained me on the use of their packs.
The facts are that only about 5% of the people who are caught in avalanches do not deploy the packs. Get this straight: 95% of the people have the composure to pull the handle. If you deploy the pack, you have a 98% chance of having the pack visible on the surface or you visible on the surface. People do have the composure to pull the handle. It is suggested that you pull the handle before the avalanche hits you or as you are trying to get out of the way of the avalanche. People do have the composure to pull the handle while engulfed in an avalanche, just as a whitewater kayaker has the composure to pull the grab loop on a spray skirt in class 5 rapids. Same thing with sky diving. It all happens because of training, practice, thinking and memory.

Honestly Slim, have you ever taken an avalanche class?

Just a heads up: Read the directions, practice pulling the handle,practice reaching for the handle, deploy the pack before the avalanche hits you (which I know is not always possible, since you can get blind sided).

For your information, I happen to be a instructor by profession, I have taken an avy class, and I routineley conduct avy equipment use ON THE MeOUNTAIN with many of my riding crew, friends and riders that come to me and say, help me practice. Been doing that for about 10 years. I kinda know what i am doing. (There, now that we have both spouted off stats, "Arent we special" )

The point is what you are not getting, that the oddity CAN and DID happen, mechanical failure, granted I am the only one that it has happened to, but it did happen. Get off your high horse and accept it. I put it out here for all to check their own equipment as an honest "Safety Share" and all I get from you is "You pulled the cord the wrong way". & "You did not hook the cables up". I got news for you, in MY case, you are wrong.

Here is another prime reason why I limit my posting here, know-it-all's that WERE NOT THERE, assumng they know EVERYTHING and discounting the facts of MY experience.

Ride safe everyone, check you equipment, educate yourself and may you be one of the lucky ones to never get into any AVY, good luck.

 

[snowww1]

Just for everyone's information: I do admit the pack failed, I called BCA and the cause of failure has yet to be determined.

This thread has become very unproductive. The conversation is going no where and is wasting everyone's time. I feel it will be useful again when it is determined what caused the failure and if any steps can be made to prevent other failures.

I will post again when BCA determines what caused the cable to break. You will get an honest answer on what happened.

Mike Duffy

 

[erocket]

Just for everyone's information: I do admit the pack failed, I called BCA and the cause of failure has yet to be determined.

This thread has become very unproductive. The conversation is going no where and is wasting everyone's time. I feel it will be useful again when it is determined what caused the failure and if any steps can be made to prevent other failures.

I will post again when BCA determines what caused the cable to break. You will get an honest answer on what happened.

Mike Duffy

I've been watching this discussion with great interest as an avy pack owner, and I would love to see the facts on this incident for all of our safety. So far after one week.... Nothing but pure confusion! To Mr Duffy, I checked up on your credentials, nearest I can tell you are an expert in this area. To Mr Idaho Slim, i'm sure we all respect your skills, practice and experience, it should be commended. You seem to have all the answers.

Please you guys answer some questions for those of us who own these packs..
Does BCA have the pack or does the dealer have the pack?
If BCA hasn't seen the pack, why not? It's been a week, would have to be a priority at bca I would think.
Was the pack test fired at the dealer or did you set up the pack at home and test fire it? Still confused about that part.

Thanks guys

 

[cowboysedge]

Wow! I can't understand why this thread has turned to a stand off!

I have the up most respect for the both of you! (Slim & Mike Duffy)

I have taken Mike's Avy class and also worked with him through email about avy awareness. He is a stand up guy and knows his stuff.

I also have been on several rides with Idaho Slim in the last year and I can tell you that he is a stand up guy and that he also has his ducks in a row! I would not think twice about Slim not knowing what to do in an Avy situation, he is one of the people I would want around for sure if our group were in a bad situation!

Any way don't miss the bus! The two of you working together could have a good out come here. (JMO!!!)

With that being said! We would all like to know the out come of Slims Float 30 avy pack!

I just don't want to see it swept under the carpet like other avy bag failures in the past. Put to bed as operator error.

Mechanical failure or operator error Is not the issue here to me! The pack failed for some reason and that is the important part. I have seen a ton of these packs on the mountain this year and I would like to be able to pass the needed information on to riders who wear them. I would like to be able to tell them you might want to check this or do that. Or maybe even tell them to take a look and the thread on SW.

 

[Idaho Slim]

Thanks Jeff, and thanx to Mike for taking a time out in this thread, I have been in alot of communication with BCA. They have been outstanding in trying to research and attend to this issue. Please stay tuned and hold on for more information to benefit all. The engineers have got the pack, and we are talking about it. Sorry for the time delay, but I am sure they, along with me, want to put out factual information.

 

[vendetta]

i pulled mine twice this year and it worked both times(not in avalanches)

 

[Trenchmaster]

On the last ride of the season this year one of the guys in our group decided to pull the cord on his Snowpulse to test it out. Nothing happened, we all stood there shocked. Buddy was obviously upset that he had been riding all year thinking he was doing everything he could to be safe mountain riding. Turns out he did not have the operating handle hooked up properly to the canister. I'm sure he will be more careful in the future!!!

 

[Idaho Slim]

Response

BCA has acknowledged my pack was installed with the proper bottle, had a charged bottle, that the cables both inner & outter were properly connected. They have seen the video of me pulling the cord correctly. They replaced my bottle with another, and grabbed the broken end of the cable with pliers and succesfully deployed the pack.

Bottom line is the cable snapped at or near the pull handle, purely an isolated mechanical failure. They are continuing to try and find out why my cable snapped and have been relentless in their quest.

BCA corporate has been outstanding in their investigation and have been extremely workable and intensive in trying to pin point this failure. I am genuinely impressed with their response and would not hesitate to purchase another BCA product.
To date, my pack is the only mechanical failure they have had (Go figure )

I suppose the best outcome of this whole issue is this did not happen to me in the event of an avalanche, and that this provides all sleddars with the notice to "CHECK YOUR EQUIPMENT" ........ frequently, what ever the brand or item......... your life depends upon YOUR actions!

Be safe - SLIM.

 

[newmy1]

If this would have happended on the hill with a fatality, no one would ever know....that is SCARY.

Good to see they got to the bottom of this. Another lesson learned, NEVER assume user error with issues like this.

 

[mountainhorse]

Slim,

Great post!!

Good thing you caught the problem and that BCA is aware of it.

These are the kinds of threads that show the value of forums in getting the word out on many different issues.

In reading this post, I cant figure out if you ever did or did not test fire your pack and Jodi's pack before this non-deploy incident??

Test firing any airbag pack is definately one of the things owners should do at the beginning of each season, IMO... Your life may depend on it.

Same goes for other safety equipment, flashlights, GPIRB, SPOT's, etc...

 

[Idaho Slim]

Slim,

In reading this post, I cant figure out if you ever did or did not test fire your pack and Jodi's pack before this non-deploy incident??

Unfortunately we never did test fire my pack after its purchase late Febraury, My bad, will never happen again. Thats why i was firing it at the end of the season, I know wrong sequence. My actions will be to test fire pre-season and after my last ride of each season, check all connections & air before each weekend's ride. SnoJo does not have a Avy-Pack .... Yet. Due to her petite size we are trying all brands and sizes, she will have one for the start of next season.

 

[mountainhorse]

Slim,

Dont forget to have a good supply of the trigger O-Rings on hand... I think you are supposed to replace them each time you fire the unit.

Looking foward to riding with you next season... I just hope I can keep up.

You and Jo are welcome in Cali anytime... we have some DEEEEEEEP snow still.