EVERYONE - ALERT!! Please READ !!

[CoyoteGirl]

Glad this was found in a test fire... not on the hill.. FOR SURE!

One of the things that interested me in the BCA Float 30 was it's capability to be refilled locally and at less cost, therefore allowing you to perform test fires more often. The day we received our packs we installed the canisters according to directions and did a test fire to get a feel for the process AND to make sure all was working properly. I feel that everyone should be doing this! 100%

I believe in BCA and their products. Even though this pack is 1/2 the cost of others, I do not for ONE SECOND believe that is due to any inferior quality what so EVER! AND the pro-active approach that the company has had with several "questions/comments/concerns" regarding this product, with people I personally know, speaks volumns for the company's committment to our safety, IMO.

I'm glad Slim posted this, whatever the outcome and cause of this failure might be, as it has now brought to people's attention one very important thing... TEST FIRE at time of purchase, test fire often, test fire at the beginning of the season. Thanks Slim!

All,

I work for BCA and this thread was forwarded to me this morning. I am a brand new forum user at Snowest so greetings.

HI Steve! WELCOME!

 

[Idaho Slim]

Yes, it does. BCA just spoke to him and the cable was not attached to the canister. In that situation, when you are pulling on the cable, all the force is put on the cable end (which is threaded so that it can attach to the canister). The force exerted by pulling on an unattached cable end is far greater than the force required to deploy the pack. In this case he broke the cable. BCA has tested this pack thoroughly which has much to do with the delayed release this winter.
Here is a video of ongoing testing that BCA sent me. Done with a 175 pound test dummy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik5PFBsbJ4c

Wait one minute, NO-ONE has spoken to me, if and when they do, i will post the results. As of now the pack is at my dealer, I did not look to see about connections. If I made an error in assembly, i will gladly admit it. BCA has sent me an email Today (KUDOS to BCA for that), I have not responded yet. Please refrain from accusations until I find out more. I want everyone to follow this so we all know better, EVEN if I was a dumazz on assembly ........ which begs a question, why is not "Ready to Rock" from BCA upon purchase ??

 

[modsledr]

Sounds like there was a misunderstanding about the communication and who it was with.

Just an observation and thought...

regardless of the "cause" of this specific incident...I believe the avy pack manufacturers should REQUIRE that their pack be fired before use, and at least once a season (the ABS packs come new with 2 canisters for just this reason).

I know Slim is a stand up guy and will gladly admit if an error was made, if it means getting to the bottom of the failure of his and SnoJo's safety equipment.

And I sincerely hope BCA takes a comprehensive look at their design and makes the necessary changes that are certain to be needed with a first year product.

 

[snowww1]

I apologize if I jumped the gun. I received an email from Minnesota this morning asking about the statements that were made in this post. People wanted to know what the story was, as no one had heard of a problem. The email had been sent all around the country. I forwarded the email to BCA. I received an email back from BCA stating the trigger cable was not attached. I then posted what I was told. I have seen this mistake before.

I believe you meant no harm by this post and were trying to help people.

If this is truly a problem and not operator error, everyone needs to be notified. The problem is that a post like this can be very damaging to retailers and the manufacturer. You didn't even look at the connections before posting this to the world. BCA didn't even have a chance to respond or look at the pack before it was posted.

As stated in my response, when there is a problem with deployment, in all cases that I have seen, it is operator error. That is true with all the current packs. I have called retailers today and they said the same thing. I talked to some of the biggest retailers in Colorado, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Utah. No one that I know of is seeing problems with this pack.

Why wasn't BCA notified first and the cause of the problem determined before making a thread on this forum and then leaving it all day with no response?

If I thought there was a problem with this pack, I wouldn't be using it every time I ride. My personal pack has been deployed over 20 times in classes and demos with no problems.
Mike Duffy

 

[jthussey]

The same thing happpened to a buddy of mine (turbobrad), but it happened when he was caught in a avalanche. He was off his sled talking to his friends on the south east side of Crown Butte (cooke City) at the beginning of jan last year. A guy sidehilled the mountain and caused the slide. The slide went down the mountain and up a roller that they were on and back down the drainage grabbing him on top of the roller. He pulled his cord and it snapped without filling the bag up. Luckily his buddys found him within 8 minutes and revived him and he lives to tell an amazing story.

I know He did try and go after BCA but don't relly know what all happened with the whole deal.

Not saying that the avy packs are no good. They have saved many lives. Just saw the post and thought I would tell a story that I know about the same thing happening.

 

[cowboysedge]

Wait one minute, NO-ONE has spoken to me, if and when they do, i will post the results. As of now the pack is at my dealer, I did not look to see about connections. If I made an error in assembly, i will gladly admit it. BCA has sent me an email Today (KUDOS to BCA for that), I have not responded yet. Please refrain from accusations until I find out more. I want everyone to follow this so we all know better, EVEN if I was a dumazz on assembly ........ which begs a question, why is not "READY TO ROCK!" from BCA upon purchase ??

JMO! But I would think that BCA would train all the dealer selling their packs to make sure the pack is ready to go when it goes out the door. Just good business if you ask me!

 

[snowww1]

jthussey,
Did the accident in Cooke City happen in January 2009 or 2010?

I have a call in to BCA regarding why the pack isn't shipped with the canister installed. I believe it has to do with shipping regulations, but I want to confirm. My ABS pack came without the canister installed. Canister was also in a separate box on the Snowpulse. Mike Duffy

 

[newmy1]

Same here on the one I had Mike.

jthussey,
Did the accident in Cooke City happen in January 2009 or 2010?

I have a call in to BCA regarding why the pack isn't shipped with the canister installed. I believe it has to do with shipping regulations, but I want to confirm. My ABS pack came without the canister installed. Canister was also in a separate box on the Snowpulse. Mike Duffy

 

[SnowBigDeal]

JMO! But I would think that BCA would train all the dealer selling their packs to make sure the pack is ready to go when it goes out the door. Just good business if you ask me!

I agree that life would be easier if the pack was shipped out "ready to rock", but the easiest isn't always the best. Airbags are not as simple as everyone would like them to be and there is a lot to be said about taking the time to read the instructions and learn how the pack works.

If someone buys a pack from us in person, then we go over everything very detailed and explain how everything works. We make sure the pack is ready to go when they walk out the door unless they prefer otherwise. For those who buy the pack online, we HIGHLY RECOMMEND a test fire with the pack purchase.

 

[modsledr]

Pretty sure Slims intent was to make sure that everyone who has these packs check them out and ensure proper function, not to bash BCA.

IMO...this is safety equipment just like our Beacon, shovel, and probe...it is our responsibility as users to understand how they function and how to operate them.

If you are on a trip and have to get it refilled, you as the user need to be intimate with the refill operation.

 

[jthussey]

Sorry about that guys. It was a ABS. I'm very sorry about the misunderstanding I had with my buddy. It happened on Jan of 09. The accident was posted on mtavalanche.com.

I guess things get a little mixed up when it actually didn't happen to me and heard from my friend.

Sorry Again (ecspecially BCA)

Jon

 

[snowww1]

Jon,
Thanks for clearing that up. With an ABS pack: Make sure the canister is screwed in all the way (there is a window that you can look in to see if the o-ring is compressed), The handle needs to be installed correctly and replaced after every deploy. Use silicon on the handle fitting to make sure it moves without binding. The handle should pop out when released from the fitting. ABS supplies silicon with the pack.
Get to know your packs before using. I have seen a disturbing trend that some riders do not feel they need avalanche education since they purchased a pack that can save their lives. This is so far from the truth. You want to have the knowledge so you never have to use the pack and you want the knowledge to be able to use the pack correctly. So many mistakes are being made with avalanche airbag packs: waiting too late to deploy, not setting up the pack correctly, not wearing the leg straps, taking the pack off to get at a shovel, taking the pack off at the bottom of a run out zone, etc.
Mike Duffy
www.avalanche1.com

 

[Idaho Slim]

"Let me make this Perfectly Clear" ...............

My intent of this thread was in no way to bash BCA, I have several of their products, it was purely to get the word out for all riders who own ANY brand avy pack to check theirs so that they know the pack will deploy in the event of an Avalanche and to possibly maybe, JUST MAYBE save someone's life. Many who know me, know that is my sole intent. I gave my personal endorsement to many of my personal & Team Talk friends to buy this pack, and they bought them. I am in communications with BCA this week to work this out.

Those that know me, know I do push the envelope of extreme riding in the mountains, I am not even going to try and explain my feelings right now .................. you figure it out.

Please everyone, check your equipment, no matter what brand, Ride safe ya'all.

 

[bushy]

Might want to check http://www.abssystem.com/ and click on the tab "Reality" for ABS's track record. Pretty dam good, but not perfect.

Fired mine 3 times and took it all apart so I know what my life is depending on. I refiill it locally and inspect everything. There isn't much too the mechanism and I'm confident mine will fire when I pull the trigger. If your not, then you should attend to that. That said, their trigger valve connection is a PITA and they need to fix it to prevent these kinds of issues.

Basically, the nut that screws onto the trigger valve stem can back off on it's own and the safetey cap that covers it does not prevent this. You can screw that cap on all the way without ever attaching the trigger nut. That cap should have been made to prevent the nut from backing off, but it wasn't. After reading this I cracked mine open and that nut had backed off a couple turns. Still had five full turns to go, but I'll be putting some silicone on those threads and checking it more often now.

The trigger nut is inside the cap/housing and can disappear down inside. This is as far out as mine comes, so it's a PITA to get started on the trigger stem.

Trigger stem in middle. Protective cap screws on over it. It's stripped threads waiting to happen too.

I Like the way the pack rides and i'm satisfied it will work when I need it, but it's not fool-proof by any means. Check your chit before you go riding with it! Instructions are pretty thorough too....

 

[snowww1]

Bushy,
What I have found that helps attach the cable to the firing mechanism: Get all the "slack" out of the cable from the handle end and feed it through the cable housing so you have more to work with at the firing mechanism end. Found that it makes it much easier. Mike Duffy

 

[Chubby]

That is total bull$hit, there is no way that it should matter how you pull the handle it needs to work there isnt enough time to think at that time. i bought a ABS in 03 It came ready Just had to test fire . Worked no problem It was fun so I did it twice. Never had to use it but I know it works. Thank God Slim that you didnt need it!!!!!!!!!!

 

[snowww1]

Chubby,
The handle is supposed to be pulled down on all avalanche airbag packs. They are designed to work better that way and it's the natural way to pull it. It does not have to be perfectly aligned, just pull down. I've seen people pull it at 90 degrees to the cable housing and wonder why there's more friction. Same reason we don't pull start our snowmobiles from the front bumper. Mike Duffy

 

[bushy]

Nope, that's pretty much the length I have to work with when threading it on with the tweasers...

 

[Idaho Slim]

Update: I have been in contact with BCA alot the last 2 weeks (As you can imagine) They have the pack, and they are aware that the cable broke when I pulled it. Their engineers will be examining it shortly. It is not an issue of whether the cables were attached, they were. The cable snapped upon my pulling it. I hope to get info out shortly.

BCA is being very attentive to this issue, I believe they are genuinley trying to get to the bottom of this. They have offered a replacment pack. Stay tuned.

 

[Idaho Slim]

Chubby,
The handle is supposed to be pulled down on all avalanche airbag packs. They are designed to work better that way and it's the natural way to pull it. It does not have to be perfectly aligned, just pull down. I've seen people pull it at 90 degrees to the cable housing and wonder why there's more friction. Same reason we don't pull start our snowmobiles from the front bumper. Mike Duffy

If you are insinuating that the only way to operate an avalanche pack correctly in deployment is to pull straight down, then I take extreme exception to your words. You have got to be arrogantly blind to think even 10% of people that get into an avalanche have the awareness and composure to take a second as they are tumbling head over azz to stop and think , " Hmmm I better pull this down to properly deploy this bag" ANY avalanche bag better damn well work NO MATTER what angle of Pull. BTW, I can pull my pull start cord on my sled damn near any way and it will start, friction sure, BUT IT WORKS.