eval shocker!

[zach477]

So I sat down and had my yearly eval yesterday. Because of the poor economy the last 2 evals 1 yr and 1.5 years ago were performance only because it was decided by the powers that be, that to cut cost and not cut jobs, no raises would be allowed until we came out of the recession. Well our company is back on the uptrend (orders are up, stock is up, projected profits are up) and they once again are allowing raises (take into consideration that I have been here for 2 years now without a raise, not even cost of living raise). Since I have been hired, our insurance premium has gone up twice, $910 a yr the first round and $1100 a yr last round. I was hired on as the first of my job title, and since being hired, we have hired 5 other people which has moved me up to the manager of the department. I have been working extremely hard putting in 50-60 hour weeks (salary based off 40 hour weeks) to get the systems this company has needed for years in place and operational. Some of the different systems we have in place have already proven to save the company upwards of $1.5million+ and that was in the first 14 months.

When my eval was presented to me, there was nothing but positive things to say, it stated the appreciation that I put in the hours I do, and the CEO even dropped in a note saying that our department will only continue to grow (giving me more responsibilities) and also to thank me for my service. We got to my upcoming goals and expectations and I honestly think that my work load will be significantly more in the upcoming year to the point that I don’t know how I will get it all done. After all that, we get to my raise, and they present me with a $1000 raise like I just won the Nobel Peace Prize. I know I should be happy with any raise in this economy…but its not like I just got one last year…or the year before that. My raise means I am making less now than what I was when I started because of the benefits increasing. To top it all off, according to cbsalary.com….i am making roughly 25-30% less than the average salary for my job title in my respected city and state.

So my question is, how do I respectfully bring this up to my manager during our follow up meeting? I have not signed my contract yet as they give us a few days to review it and then we discuss and sign. I was hoping for at least a $5k raise to get me close to what the average salary is, besides the fact that I have become the manager of the department between now and when I was hired on. I love my current position, and like the company I work for…but if I have to live on this salary for another year only to break even next year or still be behind times if another benefits increase comes through…I will need find a better paying job. Any tips!!

PS....sorry for the rant

 

[Sidehiller]

You need to check your numbers. If you are 25% underpaid and 5k will put you up to the average, you must make $20,000 per year now. Divide that by 52 weeks and it comes out to $384.62 per week. If you work 55 hours per week that comes to $6.99 per hour. Unless you are flipping burgers, you need a new job! All ribbing aside, we all took a 10% pay cut this year and insurance doubled for my kids. I would tread lightly complaining about a raise. I would accept it but let them know you expect more next year if things keep going good.

 

[zach477]

You need to check your numbers. If you are 25% underpaid and 5k will put you up to the average, you must make $20,000 per year now. Divide that by 52 weeks and it comes out to $384.62 per week. If you work 55 hours per week that comes to $6.99 per hour. Unless you are flipping burgers, you need a new job! All ribbing aside, we all took a 10% pay cut this year and insurance doubled for my kids. I would tread lightly complaining about a raise. I would accept it but let them know you expect more next year if things keep going good.

Ya i dont know where $5k came from, I would need $20k to put me at average for this area. I guess its one thing to complain about a raise but its another thing to pay a guy what he is worth....I have acumulated substantial school debt to get to the spot I am in plus put in more than my fair share of hard work. I think the last 4 months i have left the building maybe 4 times to take a 30 minute lunch. The other 96 days i have ate my lunch at my desk while answering emails so i can get out of the office in time to pick up my kids before daycare closes.

You make a good point sidehiller, if I can live with my current raise, it needs to be known that i expect something significant next year or I will be packin up shop.

 

[POLZIN]

Try being self employed! I took a 50% paycut and have been more than 2 months behind on the mortgage at one point.

It could be worse!

 

[Gaz]

I'm not trying to be a ball buster here but here are a couple of things I noticed:

* If you really have so many responsibilities that you aren't sure how you will be able to get them all done in the next year, why are you taking time away from being productive by posting on SW?
* Alot of employers are blocking forums like SW so employees don't get distracted during the day. Consider yourself lucky that you can peruse the forum during work hours.
* $1K / year raise isn't much but it's alot better than the 10%+ who are unemployed and are getting nothing. Some is better than none...it's all about perspective.

I agree that what is happening to you and a lot of other people is frustrating. Just be grateful for what you have rather than spending so much time complaining about what you don't.

Edit:

Here's another thought: you mentioned that what you've done has saved the company $1.5M+ in just over 14 months. Go back to your boss and give him a proposal (ie: if what I do over the next year saves another $1M, then I get a bonus of $X). Make sure the numbers are achievable and give yourself a reasonable bonus. Figure out a fair ROI for you and them and sell it to them. The worst they can say is no.

 

[woodzy]

You are working and getting raises. I would say you should be pretty happy about that. I bet 75% of working class people feel they are underpaid.

 

[Blu Du]

Try being self employed! I took a 50% paycut and have been more than 2 months behind on the mortgage at one point.

It could be worse!

x2 except for the mortgage part

 

[dragon12]

I think that they way you wrote the first post sounds respectful and you could use that in your follow up meeting. I would tread lightly as there are 5 people below you who would probably step right in if you get too demanding. If it were me I would accept the raise, keep working hard, and discuss what it would take to get to the salary level you want to be at. You may find out that they have no intentions to pay you that much and you can start looking for your next job now. You could also apply for other positions and if given an offer, use that as leverage in your negotiations. During all of this I would continue to work hard and not change my daily habits as it will be noticed.

 

[Backcountry]

Did your PE include stuff that was specific, measurable, attainable, relatisic, and time-managed? There are many companies who just give a wave at PE's and others that really use to set your worth to the company. That worth is reflected in the raise you receive. While it is quite possible that the economic factors involved only provided for a small pool for raises, you also really have to sit across the desk and be objective to determine your worth. If your PE was pretty week- like "submit reports on-time", then I can see maybe why your raise was so low (econmonic factors excluded). However if the PE had SMART things like "develop an all new system of reporting that provides for clearer understanding of the daily sales metrics relative to the financials, to be implemented by 3Q", that may garner a higher salary increase. This is especially significant when you are being rated in a pool of similar employees.

 

[Pit Crew]

you say you love your current position and like the company you work for...........to me that is worth alot, I hated my last job and love the one I have now..............definately something to think about!

 

[zach477]

Thanks guys for the feedback……I’m not trying to sound like a whiner, just needed to vent. I know things could be a LOT worse….I picked the company I am working for because of their stability, flexibility, good benefits, and that I can take pride in what we build and our product is all over the world. I did not come here expecting to be paid top wage for my position. Like I said, it would take $20k to get where the avg pay is at for my position, I know people that have a lot less responsibility in very similar rolls with same experience making $10k-$15k more even with the recession. I don’t need that much money, but I would like to at least be making more now, 2 years later in a higher position, than what I was making when I first started….because I am currently taking home less than what I was when I started.
If anything, I can simply say I was a little disappointed and feel like I am being taken advantage of. I know that others are seeing the same raise as I have, but they are the people that put 8 hour days in when no raise’s for a year were announced, they are the people that cruse through their day getting things done on their time (I am usually waiting on these people), they are the people out on 1 hour + lunch breaks and sneak out of the office at 3:30 on a Friday. Our company is also turning profits that pass what we produced before the down turn and have a lot of orders for 2010 that will put us in profit margins we have never seen before. I like the idea of proposing a bonus, I know some other people in the company are getting bonuses but it is pretty much limited to VPs and CEO.
To answer some of the above questions:
- Working for the man has some advantages, and disadvantages…just like self employment
- As you can tell by my post count, I don’t have a lot of extra time to play around on snowest, everyone needs a break now and then to catch up on fouled plugs current events (hey did you guys hear we have to start paying for this site?!)
- My role started as a quality engineer and progressed to a quality eng manager, although currently, I both manage the department and also serve as the quality engineer for one business unit. My eval was very specific, to put things in a nut shell- I really got a formal tracking system in place to track defects….before we just fixed what didn’t look right, no spec, no right or wrong, all subjective…. We also had no idea how much these defects were costing us. I was able to develop a system that captures this information….once that was captured I have made improvements on a number of processes that eliminated defects, the elimination of those defects have saved the company approx $1.4 mil in roughly 14 months.

 

[Gaz]

the elimination of those defects have saved the company approx $1.4 mil in roughly 14 months.

Measurable...and a $5-$10K bonus on savings of $1.4M is great ROI for them. Remember to make your bonus proposal to them measurable in terms of your performance and the savings that they will see. Worst thing they can say is no.

 

[justadude]

Keep working and stacking up the experience. 2-4 years later you can go get one of those other positions else where. That would be my advice.

Ya i dont know where $5k came from, I would need $20k to put me at average for this area. I guess its one thing to complain about a raise but its another thing to pay a guy what he is worth....I have acumulated substantial school debt to get to the spot I am in plus put in more than my fair share of hard work. I think the last 4 months i have left the building maybe 4 times to take a 30 minute lunch. The other 96 days i have ate my lunch at my desk while answering emails so i can get out of the office in time to pick up my kids before daycare closes.

You make a good point sidehiller, if I can live with my current raise, it needs to be known that i expect something significant next year or I will be packin up shop.

 

[AZ800]

My guess is that you may be fairly young (age) for the position you're in. I've seen this happen with others and myself once as well.
Started out of Engineering School (civil) working as a field engineer for one of the countrys largest general contractors, Kiewit.
Moved up the ladder quickly. Was a job superintendent at age 25. Got offered company stock after 2yrs w/ the company (official rule was 3yrs min to be "considered" for stock and lots of good hands there 7-10 yrs waiting on their first stock offer.) 5yrs with the company at this point. Just came off a big job as a field supt, 10+ crews at peak. Doubled the estimated profit on that job. Bid another smaller job. Left $1million on the table on bid day. Ended up tripling the estimated profit for that job. Company truck, etc, etc.
Raise time came that spring. Glanced at mine, thought it was ok, then one of my salaried foremen blabbed to me how much he was making after raise, and it was like $50/week more than me, and I was his bosses boss! Looked back at my raise. Thought it was $85/week, but it was actually $35/week.
Went into the dist office on a Sat to discuss some project needs with my dist mgr. Namely that I was on this job being the supt, proj engr, mechanic, oiler, crane operator and couple other misc things. Told him I didn't have enough time to get to town at night to get dinner, much less keep up on change orders (Where we make a good % of out profit.) and that I needed help. Either a mech, operator, or a field engineer (had budget for all three). He told me that if I couldn't handle all that then I wasn't supt material (this was the 5th or 6th job I'd run)! Now As politely as I could I asked him about the sh!tty raise (economy was good in the late 90s). He flat out told me that I was too young to command a higher salary and that as I matured (got older) my salary would as well! I was like WTF? If I'm doing the same job as someone who's 10-15yrs older than me why should I make less?
Needless to say, it was time to part company with Kiewit. Thanked them for the experience and training, and found another job.
Got a company that hired me based on my knowledge, education and experience and didn't discriminate mt salary based on my age. Been with them 9 years now.
Stick it out until you can find something better and then take the knowledge you gained there with you, knowing that they are the ones losing out.

 

[DenverR1]

I think you should ask for it. The way you present yourself in writing is not of a complainer, but of an intelligent person who has thought things through and is really an asset to the company. And it seems that the company recognizes that, but just doesn't want to pay for it. I think assertiveness is also an asset especially when you present yourself well. I would think the company sees the difference between you and the "cruisers" you mentioned. Even in difficult times you should be paid for your worth. Go for it!

 

[Ex-Member]

you say you love your current position and like the company you work for...........to me that is worth alot, I hated my last job and love the one I have now..............definately something to think about!

Yep. Being happy at a job should weigh into your overall "salary".

There's jobs out there (oilfield) that pay 2-3x what I'm bringing in now. Know why I'm not there? They work 14 hour days, work in sh*t conditions, deal with sh*tty people, and while they accrue vacation/PTO, they never have the opportunity to use it.

I'll keep my job... get paid to drink every now and then, set my own hours, plenty of vac/PTO (and time to use it), friendly coworkers that respect my skills, etc.

It's not all about the money. Been there, done that.

 

[zach477]

I would like to thank everyone for the suggestions and encouragement in response to my post. AZ800, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I am 26 and only have been out of college for a few years, and that’s pretty much why they would not pay me more than the bare minimum to begin with. I sat down with my boss a week after I started this post and went over my eval. He really helped set the mood by asking if I wanted to grab a beer after this along with some other people of the company (all of wish hold upper management positions), and took off his “VP of manufacturing” hat and put on his “My name is Doug” hat. This really made me feel a lot more comfortable requesting some of the things I will need to meet expectations in the next year, as well as discuss my raise and my future earnings.
To keep it short, the two main things we discussed were:


Me getting a student to help out with my workload, I proposed this because our company has been great working with SDSU’s engineering program (how I started with the company) and I explained how my experience as a student prepared me for the real world far beyond anything in the class room. Sure, some poor SOB will be doing my b*tch work….but been there done that! They agreed that I needed some type of assistance and were going to propose a FULL TIME support person but since I felt more comfortable (and suggested before they made mention of the support staff) utilizing a student with an engineering back ground rather than a paper pusher they would go that route. This gave me a good feeling about the raise because I just asked for a part time student that will cost a lot less money than the full time support they were going to offer.


Next came the raise, my boss simply said “What do you think of our proposed raise for calendar year 2010?” I responded “Any raise is great, especially with this struggling economy…..however, I was hoping to be back to where I was before our benefits increased. I don’t know if you’re aware or not, but with those increased I am taking home nearly $1000 a yr less than when I first started. “My boss let out a little smirk and asked “what would you like it to be?” I replied that I was hoping to see $2k so I could be back where I was 2 years ago. He replied “When our CEO reviewed my recommendations from my eval of you, he wrote down $1k for your raise. I brought it to his attention that you have taken steps backwards in pay because of the benefits increase and that I didn’t want to lose you to a higher paying company. “ He replied “If he ask for more, give it to him, he is worth it….you know what he is worth, if he ask for it, and you feel it’s appropriate, give it to him.”
So I got my $5k raise!! And to top it off, moved into a newer, bigger office for myself and my student, I now have a killer view of the shop floor of my business unit and my own quiet space to get work done!

 

[motojunkie101]

Thats awesome news!! I'm glad to see it worked out for you!

 

[ruffryder]

Holy crap, good job man!!!!

 

[Scott]

Wow. It pays to be cool.