Ethanol in your Axys

[winter4ever]

OMG the ethanol boogie man is coming to get us all. I am a mechanic for a school district that has 12 schools and we have a ton of equipment from leaf blowers to forklifts, 2 strokes and 4 strokes, and we run everything that takes gas on ethanol fuel. That's a ton of equiptment. Some gets used daily and others a couple times a year and guess what we have never had ONE failure from a fuel related issue. The worst thing that happens is a carb will get clogged up every once in a while, but guess what the happened just as much or more before there ever was ethanol fuel. I also have run all my personal equipment from sleds to boats on ethanol gas for years and once again never one problem. I guess if you don't believe in him he can't hurt you

I would run it in someone else's 20 year old leaf blower too. I won't put it in my new 13k dollar snowmobile, especially when non ethanol setting makes better power..

 

[sledheader]

Agreed, if it is accessible I would use it other wise run the e10 and leave it on the ethanol setting.

As far as keeping a tank in your trailer, you could do this with out issues if you follow a couple things. First you have to have a high quality breather. Most you can buy are pretty much useless. If you have a contact with an industrial lube supplier in your area they can get good ones. The harder issue to solve is you have to be able to fill the tank with out opening it. If you open a cap and fill it that way you would be surprised at the amount of moisture that can get in just from that. How you can do that when filling up at the pump I do not know. At work we fill our tanks with Wiggins fittings, but we have our own tanks that are set up to be a completely closed system. If you can't accomplish that the best breather in the world won't help.

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Here is what I planned. Build a 5'x3'x1' tank (112 gallons) to sit upright in the front v of the trailer opposite the door. I would put 1"x1" stiffeners inside the tank on a 1' grid to reduce sloshing and bowing of the tank walls. The tank walls would be made of 16ga steel with a 3/16" stiffener on the top where the fill cap and hand pump would sit. I have an old manual hand pump that I plan to mount (plunger style) and plan to plumb in this water filter at the pump head http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...sers&utm_campaign=textlink&utm_content=430x70

For a vented cap, I don't know why this wouldn't work http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200475121_200475121

 

[daldera]

I was referring to condensation, and with a sealed tank, it would depend on the air temp and density when you pump fuel out, and let air in. I'm assuming the tank's temperature wouldn't be constant while in storage. Water separator good. Would be an interesting experiment.

If you use that vented cap your tank is no longer sealed and you will run into the issues with condensation and moisture in the air like reg2view discussed above. I think in the long run this would end up being worse than just running fresh e10. You need to have a high quality dessicant breather which will take the moisture out of the air as it breathes.

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[sledheader]

What about using just a sealed cap and just crack it open when pumping?

 

[sledheader]

So something like this http://www.grainger.com/product/1YM...1YMW4&ef_id=VMuiWQAAABeLP4Cn:20151028155415:s

This is a 1/2" npt plug so combine this with a sealed filler cap. Then the only time the tank would be open is to fill it.

 

[daldera]

Yes something like that, I can't vouch for the quality but I'm sure it's better than that vented cap

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[sledheader]

I just dropped by my local non ethanol dealer and grabbed 2 gallons of non ethanol saw gas and noticed they have an open air vent on the tank....made me wonder why I would go to such extreme measures to keep water out!

 

[Reg2view]

I just dropped by my local non ethanol dealer and grabbed 2 gallons of non ethanol saw gas and noticed they have an open air vent on the tank....made me wonder why I would go to such extreme measures to keep water out!

I don't know if the tank was below ground, but it would not be an issue with below ground tanks. Temperature in them is almost always constant, and they never freeze. Above ground tanks would be more of an issue. Ethanol makes it worse since phase separation is guaranteed when water is introduced, just a matter of when. Good luck.

 

[sledheader]

I don't know if the tank was below ground, but it would not be an issue with below ground tanks. Temperature in them is almost always constant, and they never freeze. Above ground tanks would be more of an issue. Ethanol makes it worse since phase separation is guaranteed when water is introduced, just a matter of when. Good luck.

There is also a below ground tank but it takes a Commercial fueling card. The tank I'm talking about was above ground.

 

[sledheader]

The vent consisted of nothing more but a pipe that came out of the top of the tank, 90* to horizontal and then 90* downward to keep rain out. That was it.

 

[daldera]

They probably get away with it because that tank probably cycles weekly or even daily depending on the station. That being said though, if I seen that I would not buy fuel from that place. I have a chain of gas station here that I believe have questional practices and I avoid them at all costs also.

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[diamonddave]

About 10 years ago my buddy threw an auxiliary 60 gallon tank in the back of the truck. Fuel water seperator with an electric pump. I would do the same but I have a deck. We usually always ride together so that's probably another reason why I don't have a tank.

But I would highly recommend that over the tank in the trailer.

 

[CO Powder]

When was the last time an engine went down due to e10? There is a setting on the machine to safely run the machine on said fuel, clearly the machine is built to deal with it.


I ran eth and non eth settings last year during my experiment. I can't tell a bit of difference.


I just do not get the hysteria...

 

[sledheader]

About 10 years ago my buddy threw an auxiliary 60 gallon tank in the back of the truck. Fuel water seperator with an electric pump. I would do the same but I have a deck. We usually always ride together so that's probably another reason why I don't have a tank.

But I would highly recommend that over the tank in the trailer.

What difference would it make between having it in the pickup or in the trailer?

When was the last time an engine went down due to e10? There is a setting on the machine to safely run the machine on said fuel, clearly the machine is built to deal with it.


I ran eth and non eth settings last year during my experiment. I can't tell a bit of difference.


I just do not get the hysteria...

This has always been my theory but with buying a 13000 dollar sled, I hate to take the risk some say you take by feeding it bad fuel. I've always ran ethanol in every other sled I've owned

 

[AndrettiDog]

When was the last time an engine went down due to e10? There is a setting on the machine to safely run the machine on said fuel, clearly the machine is built to deal with it.


I ran eth and non eth settings last year during my experiment. I can't tell a bit of difference.


I just do not get the hysteria...

How can you say? Sled motors go all the time and fuel could be a contributor. Just because the gov says it's safe doesn't mean it is. You are essentially reducing your primary burning fuel by up to 10%. Someone else mentioned water in the carb from time to time. Uhhh...that can be bad.

Ethanol is an oxygenator, and is actually used to increase octane rating. 10% ethanol has less BTU output per equivalent measure of pure gasoline. You need to run more of it, or roll back timing, because it will run leaner. Flexfuel vehicles are a great example - their fuel mileage goes down dramatically in E85, since the ECM has to run more of it to make hp and keep it from getting too lean - it's just cheaper to fill up. In sleds, beside running richer or less timing (the poo ethanol setting), it's the storage and water - gas separation that occurs. Vehicles run everyday are not an issue. I can't ride everyday. Good luck.

I agree, but once again you are replacing 100% fuel with up to 10% of that nasty water binding substance. Just the fact that running a sled on the ethanol setting changes the timing and enriches fuel delivery tells me a lot. It's a band aid for using a fuel that we are all stuck with. By the way, I run the non-ethanol setting with ethanol fuel for my elevation. My last three sleds never had issues, but I wouldn't suggest it at lower elevations.

 

[CO Powder]

This has always been my theory but with buying a 13000 dollar sled, I hate to take the risk some say you take by feeding it bad fuel. I've always ran ethanol in every other sled I've owned

What do you feed your truck? I put it in a $50k pick-up. They don't blow up due to ethanol...


I have never had a sled go, I started riding ~20 years ago in Minnesota, land of much ethanol. I have buddies that have all been riding that long or even twice that long. Can't think of a single failure even remotely related to ethanol.


Worry if you like, there are lots of things in life you can worry about. This one is too trivial for me...


Use some sense. The gas in my sled will come out and be used elsewhere before the first ride. It will start with fresh gas and likely be filled at least once a week all winter. Next season it will get fresh gas for the first ride, and so on and so on without ever having and issue.

 

[gregt]

What do you feed your truck? I put it in a $50k pick-up. They don't blow up due to ethanol...


I have never had a sled go, I started riding ~20 years ago in Minnesota, land of much ethanol. I have buddies that have all been riding that long or even twice that long. Can't think of a single failure even remotely related to ethanol.


Worry if you like, there are lots of things in life you can worry about. This one is too trivial for me...


Use some sense. The gas in my sled will come out and be used elsewhere before the first ride. It will start with fresh gas and likely be filled at least once a week all winter. Next season it will get fresh gas for the first ride, and so on and so on without ever having and issue.

To compare a high performance 800cc 2 stroke to a 5.7 litre truck engine is night and day. The sled will make 0.21 hp per cc, while the the truck is making 0.06 hp per cc. There is a reason why the pro makes less hp in eth mode.

 

[summ8rmk]

I ran 10%eth for 4,000 miles in my 09 m8, i even had an SLP pipe without a fuel controller. Yeah it is a cat not a polaris but it is a 2stroke and made more power than a polaris. I even filled the tank 7/8 full for summer storage and ran that same tank the first ride of next season(i also added fuel stabilizers on the last ride of the season and upon fill up ). Oh, oh, oh and i only changed the sparkplugs one time, at 2,600 miles, just because i had a set of new ones, they still looked good. How many people are gonna freak out about running the same sparkplug for more than one season? Hell, chevy says run the stock plugs for 100,000 miles!
These new sleds are fuel injected and computer controlled, they will protect themselves to a certain extent.

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[CO Powder]

To compare a high performance 800cc 2 stroke to a 5.7 litre truck engine is night and day. The sled will make 0.21 hp per cc, while the the truck is making 0.06 hp per cc. There is a reason why the pro makes less hp in eth mode.

Everything (stock) makes less power with ethanol. When you get 250,000 miles from a sled motor let me know... That is a LOT of ethanol in my 15 mpg truck, which is 6.4 liters and 410 hp BTW.


Can you point me towards some engine failures on sleds that were for sure the fresh e10 in the tank?

 

[gregt]

I know 2 sleds (pros) that consistently get knock with eth when not in eth mode. You seem to be taking this quite seriously. Just so your aware, you can run whatever you want in your sled. No one cares.