Dragon/IQ RMK handling

[Cascade Crud]

Brad just buy a damn M sled already! Dont waste anymore money on the dragon (its best days are long behind it) trying to make it ride like my M, you've seen and felt how it handles, nothing like being able to pick whatever line you want and the sled just goes there seemingly efortlesly.

And you hit enuf ****e without a turbo

 

[Cascade Crud]

throttle control is everything steering the sled downhill. you can lay it over all you want going downhill and it will not actually turn unless you have some throttle going. i do not agree with you that it kicks in and whips you around i find it pretty easy to control.
not sure how the m sled is different havent put a lot of seat time on the m8 or remember how my m7 acted.
just the physics of it i dont see any sled turning much downhill without the track propelling it that way ie throttle.

I'm purdy sure he was saying it just lays over and stays nomater what kind of throttle you,ve given it. I've ridden the sled in question and it just wants to fall on its side and slide down the hill. Now my M i can weave around on it's side with just enough throttle to keep it moving in powder or on packed and leave a perfect track mark (no track spinning) That said on his 06? rmk 600s I could carve around just fine down steep hills and was quite impressed for being a die-hard cat rider. But the dragon just falls on its face, plays dead and buries itself.

 

[trailtoy1993]

Brad just buy a damn M sled already! Dont waste anymore money on the dragon (its best days are long behind it) trying to make it ride like my M, you've seen and felt how it handles, nothing like being able to pick whatever line you want and the sled just goes there seemingly efortlesly.

And you hit enuf ****e without a turbo

With replies like this its hard to figure out how your reputation got in the green let alone all built up! I will buy an M but if I'm not able to make it happen this season, I might have to band-aid the old Dragon!

Oh, and if the drago handled for a sH!t I might not hit so much ***** !!!!!

 

[Alaskan_awd]

Maybe it's becuase you removed the sway bar, I could see doing this on a sled with a wider stance like I did on my switchback (I have an M8 snowchecked btw ), but I have allot of seat time on a Raw RMK and there is no way I would take the sway bar out. It feels perfect to me with it in and I think it would be a little sloppy with no sway bar.

 

[Bkinz]

Taking the sway bar out makes it a boondicking machine, even more than it already is. The only thing that is harder when you take the sway bar is riding down the trail, it really likes to dive to the out side. Or flip if your going to fast.

 

[AndrettiDog]

Taking the sway bar out makes it a boondicking machine, even more than it already is. The only thing that is harder when you take the sway bar is riding down the trail, it really likes to dive to the out side. Or flip if your going to fast.

I've had two Dragons and I feel like I'm one with that machine now. However, there are things you can do to make it better and worse. Removing the sway bar with the stock WE's is not a good idea at all. If you can't get the Dragon on it's side with the sway bar, you should just go home. I had my D7 w/o the sway bar (because I crashed and broke it in half) and it was terrible. The skis toe in in the air while jumping and the sled feels like it is going to roll over.

Better shocks up front help a lot with the diving characteristic and turning. I'm not asking you to stay with the Polaris (like the AC guys begging you to come over), but if you can't ride the Dragon go to another sled. Don't be miserable. I find it hard to believe that in a couple years you still can't ride it, but maybe your style is better on another sled. This is why I always tell people to ride the different sled instead of trying to get them to buy what I have.

 

[KAWGRN]

I had the same experience and I have all three machines and was miserable on the dragon but loved the power on boost was trying to sell it this spring to no avail so I decided to make my self like IT SOOOO heres how I started

Going up hill was dangerous un less there was plenty of room ,because it went where it wanted skis never were on the snow,so I looked at the rear and decided the kinked rails had to go so I did the whole timbersled and Ice age rails thing ,,,, hope it works

turning radius sucked so again I did the whole timbersled front end thing and also removed the sway bar and added float evolX ( again big bux) shocks,,, they say their spindels will turn 12 degrees sharper hope it works

high stearing effort problem with the limiters pulled down and the rear spring set stiff and powder pros with carls mod ,,also tried simmons gen1 and 2 sold in the classified here) and powder hounds (wouldnt steer at all then). I think im am trying the SLT with big wear bars. Also under this heading,,,, I got to thinking about the turning again and moved the bars down and back which I hope will move me back further on the sled,, it was kind of hard to turn going down hill when I was so far foward,, I hope with the straight rails it will stop the damn trenching,, also addad the power claw track to help with the trenching,,,, now alll this is subjective untill the snow flies
my impressions of my other sleds 800XPand M8 both are stock the XP is a driving sled you steer it like a trail sled with 12 inch carbides on ice verry precise but couldnt get to lay over easily and very darty wore me out the M8
seem to do it all but I dont like the seating,/stearing felt like I was on the back of the sled ,, hope its fixed with the new seat on my new2010 thats comming and the Dragon well I have face planted more with this sled than any other

In my quest I will,,,,, find the happy medium,, and make peace with my Dragon!!!! with what I just spent I better,, or I will burn the fffnnn thing!!!!!!!No body can say I didnt TRY to like this sled

 

[PooSlinger]

I find that the IQ really likes you to keep your weight back. Get too far forward and you'll have issues pulling it over or you'll over-do it and just flop over and lose forward momentum.

I also agree on the Zero Pro front shocks. World of difference over the Walker Paperweights. They're decorating the wall in my garage right now.

 

[akrevrider]

Dragon hangdling- track & driver swap

KAWGRN,

Which drivers did you install and which duro PC (80/90) is the track?

Any tricks or pointers on the track swap for a 09 D-8?

Thanks in advance,

akrevrider

 

[AndrettiDog]

Any tricks or pointers on the track swap for a 09 D-8?

Buy some beer and invite a friend or two. Impact wrench helps on the skid bolts. Easier if you remove the secondary. Drain the chaincase through the hole in the bottom of the sled. No need to remove chaincase or brake but it is easier if you remove the bolts to the chaincase. This give some play when removing and putting new track in. When you are trying to line up the holes on the rear skid, pull on the torsion spring, it will fall right into place. And watch the rails, they have very sharp angles that cut into your skin very easily!

 

[winter brew]

trailtoy, I have the exact same impression of the Dragoon as you......I even did the Holz front, Floats, Alpha-X rear skid, etc.....tried everything.
It has a mind of it's own....sold it.
I think part of the problem is they moved the steering post forward, but the footwells are still back, so a guy can't get "under" the bars.....you are always leaning forward, ESPECIALLY going down hill so you are always off balance and don't have a controlled leverage over the sled. The M's, Rev's, XP's all have footwells farther forward in relation to the base of the bars, allowing a guy to get forward. This is the best theory I can come up with, I feel at home on just about every other chassis....Edge, rev, M, XP, and can hold a line with all those and put the sled exactly where I want.....not with the IQ, and I rode it quite a bit, both stock and turbo'd.

 

[94fordguy]

trailtoy, I have the exact same impression of the Dragoon as you......I even did the Holz front, Floats, Alpha-X rear skid, etc.....tried everything.
It has a mind of it's own....sold it.
I think part of the problem is they moved the steering post forward, but the footwells are still back, so a guy can't get "under" the bars.....you are always leaning forward, ESPECIALLY going down hill so you are always off balance and don't have a controlled leverage over the sled. The M's, Rev's, XP's all have footwells farther forward in relation to the base of the bars, allowing a guy to get forward. This is the best theory I can come up with, I feel at home on just about every other chassis....Edge, rev, M, XP, and can hold a line with all those and put the sled exactly where I want.....not with the IQ, and I rode it quite a bit, both stock and turbo'd.

Here's a thought... Couldn't you put a dual pivot riser on and move your bars back a bit to be able to get 'under' them a little better? I put one on my edge to achive the exact opposite effect, I could not get far enough forward till I pivoted the bars forward about an inch, made a huge difference in handling. Also riding my buddies 06 with a rider select delete he had the post locked in one of the more forward positions cause it felt good climbing, but neither of us could throw the sled around for nothing, he moved it to the rear hole in the kit and handling improved dramatically, could that be part of the problem?

 

[Jkinzer]

KAWGRN,

Which drivers did you install and which duro PC (80/90) is the track?

Any tricks or pointers on the track swap for a 09 D-8?

Thanks in advance,

akrevrider

i went with the 7 tooth 3.0 avid extros so i could get more clearance in the front of the tunnel. you should pull the chaincase off to make sure everything is to spec when installing the new drivers, even tho your post wasnt aimed towards me i also went with the 90 duro power claw because it hooks up so much better than the 80. i'll be doing the install of my track and drivers here in the next week or so hoepfully and will take pics and post them up when i get a chance.

 

[KAWGRN]

KAWGRN,

Which drivers did you install and which duro PC (80/90) is the track?

Any tricks or pointers on the track swap for a 09 D-8?

Thanks in advance,

akrevrider

Well the way I see it with a timbersled suspension being fully coupled (Track getting tighter as it compresses) I saw no need for the avid anti rachets so I wnt with the 8 tooth from SLP and I chose the soft because colorado is all about deep DRYYY botomless snow.And I used I Belive ,,,a 3 inch PVC coupling for the press plate to remove the driversAfreind had an HCR last year and it was a trench monster ,,,,,,,,,,untill spring

 

[KAWGRN]

I find that the IQ really likes you to keep your weight back. Get too far forward and you'll have issues pulling it over or you'll over-do it and just flop over and lose forward momentum.

I also agree on the Zero Pro front shocks. World of difference over the Walker Paperweights. They're decorating the wall in my garage right now.

They do add a splssh of color to the wall,,, right next to my snap on calander

 

[Bkinz]

I've had two Dragons and I feel like I'm one with that machine now. However, there are things you can do to make it better and worse. Removing the sway bar with the stock WE's is not a good idea at all. If you can't get the Dragon on it's side with the sway bar, you should just go home. I had my D7 w/o the sway bar (because I crashed and broke it in half) and it was terrible. The skis toe in in the air while jumping and the sled feels like it is going to roll over.

Better shocks up front help a lot with the diving characteristic and turning. I'm not asking you to stay with the Polaris (like the AC guys begging you to come over), but if you can't ride the Dragon go to another sled. Don't be miserable. I find it hard to believe that in a couple years you still can't ride it, but maybe your style is better on another sled. This is why I always tell people to ride the different sled instead of trying to get them to buy what I have.

I'm the totally different boat than you about the sway bar thing. I rode my brothers sled just in a meadow, and I could tell the difference in the way it responded and how much easier it is to throw on its side. But then again it is easy for me to throw a stock one on its side and go right back up a hill. I think it is just a preference thing on how you want and would like the sled to handle for you.
just my .02cents
Brad

 

[trailtoy1993]

I have three IQ's two 07 600's and the 08 700 Dragon, the two sixes still have sway bars and the 7 does not. They all do the same thing down hill, I been riding IQ's for three seasons now after coming off an Apex. The first couple seasons I was just happy to be riding sleds a couple hundred pounds lighter! Now I am starting to really get picky with the handling, especially after riding a superior handling machine. I've changed the front end all around, stock, fabcraft, multiple shock combos, spring rates, back to stock with multiple shock combos, etc. the machine still sucks going downhill, no matter how you slice it. So, now I'm looking for the things I haven't f'd with yet. Like ski pivot, skis, track angles, track location, ride height (higher), straight vs. angled rails and the like.

Thank you all for your replies, I think I am going to raise the back end, alter the caster angle to maintain stability, and modify the ski tails like carls pp's. Oh, and add the turbo....

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

I have three IQ's two 07 600's and the 08 700 Dragon, the two sixes still have sway bars and the 7 does not. They all do the same thing down hill, I been riding IQ's for three seasons now after coming off an Apex. The first couple seasons I was just happy to be riding sleds a couple hundred pounds lighter! Now I am starting to really get picky with the handling, especially after riding a superior handling machine. I've changed the front end all around, stock, fabcraft, multiple shock combos, spring rates, back to stock with multiple shock combos, etc. the machine still sucks going downhill, no matter how you slice it. So, now I'm looking for the things I haven't f'd with yet. Like ski pivot, skis, track angles, track location, ride height (higher), straight vs. angled rails and the like.

Thank you all for your replies, I think I am going to raise the back end, alter the caster angle to maintain stability, and modify the ski tails like carls pp's. Oh, and add the turbo....

Brad, while your at it throw either a powerclaw or a camo extreme track under the 700..I think that may fix most of your downhill powder problem as far as it just snapping around...the 5 series tracks only seem to work good in a few very select conditions in every thing else they just spin..no hookup...

 

[KAWGRN]

Went outto the shop lastnight and measured some chit and I found somthing that helps me understand some of the handeling dynamics of the Dragon if you measure the crank centerline(clutch bolt) now this may varry as different suspensions and spring preloads have an effect but the XP is 13-14 off the floor,, the cat is also 12-13 off the floor and the Dragon is almost 17 off the floorI had three CMX sled and all were in the 16-17 inch range and there was a reason,, Mark,, I belive figured that the Higher CG worked to ouir advantage when boondocking through the trees it was the BEST handeling Sled I ever had Period!!!!!the CMX you were further back on the sled like the M-cat and the front was around 41-44 wide (thats where my dragon will be)I noticed on my XP that it was harder to pull over in hard snow now I know why,, LOW CG If your on the Doo site there are guys over there talking about narrowing there front ends and reversing ther dual keel skis and the such which makes the CG feel kigher... The Cat is in my mind is also low cg but because you are so far back on the sled I think it is balanced pretty well ,,that why I think The Dragon bars need to be rotated back a little ,,maby alot ,,to find the sweet spot widening the front end I think will also have a positive effect on MY dragon,, as some have stated and I have experiencd with the dragon you dont grtab the bars and pull the sled over its more of a lean and ,,nudge the sled over if you pull you will be on your side dooing the Guppy LOL,,I shortened the EVOL X shocks to 16 inches on the dragon my reasoning is that on the timber sled rear being coupled ,,simmilar to the MOD M-10s that was under the CMX as the suspension compresses the the front gets higher ,, especially with stiffer shocks( I wonder if thats why the WE shocks are so soft)) and you need a sway bar to keep from rolling over???. any way these are just observation from an old man bored to death cuz there no snow!!!!

 

[ADRENALINE]

Lots of ideas on this thread, some of which I may try. Just me but I have tried not to test different options too fast, make a change and ride it for an hour. I love the way mine has turned out but it took time tweaking. Sway bar removal made mine way unpredictable. Lastly, it helps to be in shape starting in October, some of you may laugh at this but you don't get any younger and getting some exercise prior to your first ride so you aren't winded the first 5 miles out makes a HUGE difference, sled tends to react to what you put into it. Was that dumb?