Dragon/IQ RMK handling

[trailtoy1993]

Alright, whats the verdict on getting a dragon to handle in the hills? I am going to switch to an M8 if I can't get this thing to act right.

Why does the cat turn on a down hill to sidehill maneuver so easy and controlled and the poo just goes straight until you give a fistful of throttle then in instantly overturns and spits you off!!!?!?!? I cannot count the number of times I've had these damn things on their side sliding down hill blipping the throttle trying to turn and nothing til I give it a bunch of throttle and bam! 90 degree whip turn and almost spit me off the thing! Drives me nuts! My buddies M8 I can just carve downhill at next to zero mph and turn with ease what gives? Does the placement of the ski pivot help like carls modded powder pros with the tail cut down?

Also, I rode a new assault 800 then my buddies M8 back to back up a moguled out hill and the Poo is all over over the place compared to the M8 which stayed right on line AND changed direction with ease. I've been riding these IQ's for three seasons now and cannot figure out why they are instable but at the same time don't turn!

Help! I wanna keep my dragon and turbo it but I might buy an M8 instead if I can't make this fawker work right!

 

[svensdream]

there are several thing in my opinion that needs to change I like a wider front end (42in)which makes the sled feel less twitchy, z broz shocks the WE are hopeless, chain case roll as the approach is to steep, flat rails to know down the wheelie, I prefer wider bars so I don't feel like I'm riding a tricycle. these are all preferences as everybody likes something different.

 

[trailtoy1993]

My main issue is the inability to turn going downhill with any semblence of control. Uphill i can deal with although not being able to stick to my line gets me in trouble (often) but really we do alot of tree/boondock/off-camber stuff and for a while I thought my main riding buddy was just alot better then me as he has more years on a sled. Then I rode his new m8......... he told me m-sleds make you a better rider..... now I know. He was just as unable to turn and just as stuck as I usually am while I was motoring circles around him on his sled like he usually does to me.


So drop and roll and wide front end? I already have changed shocks, didn't help the downhill problem tho.

 

[Himark]

Rider preference..

I have plenty of seat time on a 09 M8 and to me it felt like it was more a stable platform than the Raw. I personally like the twitchy easy to throw and go feeling of the Raw chassis way over the stable A/C chassis. I dont think the Poo chassis is any less manuvarible.

 

[trailtoy1993]

Rider preference..

I have plenty of seat time on a 09 M8 and to me it felt like it was more a stable platform than the Raw. I personally like the twitchy easy to throw and go feeling of the Raw chassis way over the stable A/C chassis. I dont think the Poo chassis is any less manuvarible.

Its not that the chassis is less maneuverable its that it is unpredictable. The M8 just does everything you ask in a straight forward fashion. The dragon is un stable and gets knocked off-line easy going up and then goes straight down unless you jack the throttle then it snaps around unpredictably. Not a fan of the downhill low-speed maneuverability, or lack there of.

 

[Mag]

I don't think anybody will convince you how to make your Poo handle, if the M feels better to you buy an M.

I'm exactly the opposite I do not feel comfortable on the M and really don't like the handling of the doo and I like the feel of my Dragon.

Personal preference is the name of the game, no one sled out performs the other but one rider may out perform the other sled.

My .02

 

[trailtoy1993]

I don't think anybody will convince you how to make your Poo handle, if the M feels better to you buy an M.

I'm exactly the opposite I do not feel comfortable on the M and really don't like the handling of the doo and I like the feel of my Dragon.

Personal preference is the name of the game, no one sled out performs the other but one rider may out perform the other sled.

My .02

Dude, thats why I'm asking..... If there is something in the RAW's build that makes it not turn on downhills that I can fix. I.e. ski pivot point, ski tail length, attack angle, tipped up rails, etc. If not then I will get an M. I've had yamaha's and polaris so far. Wouldn't be a problem going to cat, I just wanna know if I can adjust my current sled before I go that route. Thanks anyway

 

[Bkinz]

Very well put^^^
I've riden my dragon for one year, and it just seems natural to me to be able to throw it on it's side coming down a hill next to 0mph. I can even stop on one ski coming downhill sometimes to pick my line. Sounds like you may just want to buy the sled that you can ride the easiest, and makes you the happiest with the predictability of it.
Brad

 

[trailtoy1993]

Very well put^^^
I've riden my dragon for one year, and it just seems natural to me to be able to throw it on it's side coming down a hill next to 0mph. I can even stop on one ski coming downhill sometimes to pick my line. Sounds like you may just want to buy the sled that you can ride the easiest, and makes you the happiest with the predictability of it.
Brad

Thats just it, you can lay the poo on its side all day at a standstill but it stays going straight. And where we ride, making the move, for sure, means the difference between keeping riding or yarding sled out of tree well or maybe picking up pieces at bottom of a cliff. Predictable is important.

Anybody have any good working setups for tight tree/off-camber riding they wanna share. Is there any thing to help? drop and roll? ski mods? anybody?

 

[Mag]

Dude, thats why I'm asking..... If there is something in the RAW's build that makes it not turn on downhills that I can fix. I.e. ski pivot point, ski tail length, attack angle, tipped up rails, etc. If not then I will get an M. I've had yamaha's and polaris so far. Wouldn't be a problem going to cat, I just wanna know if I can adjust my current sled before I go that route. Thanks anyway

My setup is middle ski width, full out on limiter strap, front shock forward, bars moved 1" forward from stock 19/42 gears and 2 me it goes anywhere I point it. Foot position steer's the raw chassis. I tip over easy on the M and have to plan ahead on the doo. It's about you and the sled, what fit's you will make you happy.

 

[ADRENALINE]

So I saw this and thought, hmmmm I spent the first season saying EXACTLY the same thing. I played with just about every different combo I could think of and found IMO that if you keep your front shock in the front hole (lower) and suck the limiter strap up into the middle position it will pull a line a lot easier. The second thing I did was stiffen the rear springs to keep the transfer down. The third thing I tried late in the year was a set of doo pilot 6.9 skis with the dual carbides and it seemed to help but I wouldn't say get a set and try them yourself, as the snow we were on was like concrete.

Other than that, I have heard the drop and roll and straight rails work well. All in all, I bought it and think I figured some things out, but once again only my opinion as rider styles differ. I spend most of the time off the trail and in the trees so when there is powder, the sled feels perfect!

Edit: One more thing, in another post it is said foot position is everything on the IQ which I will agree with 100%. It took a couple of rides just sidehilling for me to figure out where stand so I could keep the weight balanced.

 

[Bkinz]

Thats just it, you can lay the poo on its side all day at a standstill but it stays going straight. And where we ride, making the move, for sure, means the difference between keeping riding or yarding sled out of tree well or maybe picking up pieces at bottom of a cliff. Predictable is important.

Anybody have any good working setups for tight tree/off-camber riding they wanna share. Is there any thing to help? drop and roll? ski mods? anybody?

I meant that I can turn up hill when ever I want to. sorry I didn't put that in their. It has always seemed to whip right around for me, and not to fast unless i'm being careless.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

I run the holz rear skid with carls valving, and float -2's up front...I have noticed that if I soften the front shocks(ski) too much it gets real unstabile on holding a line...the stiffer the frt ski shocks are the more predictable and smoother it handles the hills.....I would start by stiffening the frt shocks and see if that doesnt help..also might upgrade the sway bar to the 09 dragon bar with its solid mnts over the 08 style..they say that helps with the stability as well...

 

[wasatchrider]

throttle control is everything steering the sled downhill. you can lay it over all you want going downhill and it will not actually turn unless you have some throttle going. i do not agree with you that it kicks in and whips you around i find it pretty easy to control.
not sure how the m sled is different havent put a lot of seat time on the m8 or remember how my m7 acted.
just the physics of it i dont see any sled turning much downhill without the track propelling it that way ie throttle.

 

[sled_guy]

trailtoy1993, how big a guy are you? In my opinion, at least on my Dragon, the front WEs and the stock skis SUCK for bigger guys. I'm 250 without riding gear and the thing twitches and wallows like a pig on crack. My brother put Fox ZeroPros on the front with proper valving for our fat azzes (we are both big boys) and I was SHOCKED at the stability improvement and turning ability. Before the shock change I would pull on the thing to turn and it would flop over on it's side and throw me off. Now it's much more predictable.

So first place I would start is skis and front shocks.

sled_guy

 

[trailtoy1993]

Thank you for your replies, I am really looking for some handling dynamics info to help figure out what to change to make the downhill to sidehill transition happen easier and more predictable. In riding the M and my Dragon back to back the M lays on its side and then turns very easy exactly in proportion to how much throttle you give, my dragon on the other hand lays on its side and goes straight and then does not turn until a lot of throttle is given and then turns very sharp. I do notice the side boards and the tail of the M sits alot higher off the snow then the dragon. I have added a stiffer torsion spring to get the back up. My front shocks are very stiff and I am running no sway bar, should I add pressure to front track shock? I was thinking of running drop brackets on the back to raise the rear and get side boards out of snow, especially since I seem to "boot out" (to use a ski term) alot on steep sidehillls. I had thoughts that maybe the ski pivot point was not as far back as the AC and therefore not initiating the turn? I really don't care about on trail handling, hillclimb, or whatever, I just want boondocking and downhill in marginal snow performance. Suggestions? I wouldn't think the AC's shallower attack angle has much do do with it that has more to do with the uphill and trenching aspect, right?

BTW, I am 5'9" 180 lbs. stiff front shocks no sway bar, stiffer torsion spring, nitrous, fly bars, 6" risers about 1" forward, shock in bottom hole, limiters in center, and will run sled through any spot wide enough fit a sled and some places that aren't!

 

[94fordguy]

BTW, I am 5'9" 180 lbs. stiff front shocks no sway bar, stiffer torsion spring, nitrous, fly bars, 6" risers about 1" forward, shock in bottom hole, limiters in center, and will run sled through any spot wide enough fit a sled and some places that aren't!

My first thought was gonna be to ditch the sway bar, we have had an almost identical experience with my buddies' 900 RMK versus an M1000, the 900 would not sidehill to save your life till he ditched the sway bar, now it is great. I see you have already ditched the sway bar, but I am wondering about your "STIFF" front shocks... if you have them set too stiff, could it not be producing the same effect? Does the sled still carve well, easy to lay over? My cheapest guess would be to just loosen up the front shocks a bit and see what happens, by all rights it should be easier to lay over.

I don't know if that will help or not, but that's my $.02

 

[trailtoy1993]

My first thought was gonna be to ditch the sway bar, we have had an almost identical experience with my buddies' 900 RMK versus an M1000, the 900 would not sidehill to save your life till he ditched the sway bar, now it is great. I see you have already ditched the sway bar, but I am wondering about your "STIFF" front shocks... if you have them set too stiff, could it not be producing the same effect? Does the sled still carve well, easy to lay over? My cheapest guess would be to just loosen up the front shocks a bit and see what happens, by all rights it should be easier to lay over.

I don't know if that will help or not, but that's my $.02

I've experimented with three sets of shocks two air and one set of coilovers, lots of different spring rates from stock to way stiffer (like barely, and I mean barely, compress front end rocking over on concrete) (and the stiffer the better in that department). And, while they all affect trail riding and rough conditions differently they don't seem to affect my downhill turning issue. In deep snow of course anything can turn anywhere, it is the cascade crud heavy western washington snow carving that is the issue. At zero mph its not a problem, at a little higher speed is the problem.

Thanks everybody for the help!

 

[snow4321]

Turn you b!%$h

I too think have trouble turning at low speeds. I though it was just the sly dog skis that are on my sled. I have heard that the powder pros make a huge difference, so I think I am gonna start there,I am also gonna d&r and try a bit narrower front end, right know I am runnin a z-broz 45" wide and its great in for climbing but a bit much for the type of boondockin we all love so much out west.

thats all I know

 

[swrev]

First off I should mention I ride a Skidoo, not a Polaris. I had a similiar problem w/ my Rev until I moved the bars back a little. The bar position seems to have even more of an effect on my old man's XP. I don't recall reading if any one had addressed that as a possibility, but that's where I would start. Once again, not all that familiar w/ Polaris, but I saw you had 6 inch risers. Is that in addition to stock height-possibly to tall? Just food for thought. Good luck.