Dragon Front Bumper

[R J]

The stock bumper is fine. WHO THE HELL LIFTS THERE SLED UP WITH THAT MUCH FORCE ANYWAYS, USE THE SKI TIPS TO HELP GET UNSTUCK? I mean to move it in the shop or shift it around a bit on the hill it's fine, pushing over average stuff it works good. As for it hitting the tail gate, I would rather have the bumper break then damage the truck tailgate. What would you have said if your tailgate folded?

The Tri City bumper IMO is lame. It makes it look like a Yamaha for one and it also resembles too much of a sport ATV.

T4T is dead on with the energy absorbtion. Why do you think they make crush structures on cars, race cars and so on? To absorb energy to protect the driver or the main part of the vehicle. The TCP bumper will withstand more impact, no question there. It will however be more determental to the blukhead/chassis though when you compare the two. Pick your poison with this one. I will keep the plastic stocker and replace as necessary.

 

[Ollie]

First off, I don't care what my sled looks like, as long as it works.

Second, I lift with the bumper all the time. The ski tips are usually under a chit load of snow. I prefer to lift with my legs, not my back. You may like to bend over to lift, I don't.
I ride with big guys, we just grab the front and lift. We moved the sled quite easily with the bumper. As for energy absorbtion, that is a cute way of saying if you hit something, absolutely everything is destroyed. When you complain about the cost of repair, they get to tell you "It's designed that way to protect you". That is why the insurance companies are complaining that when an SUV hits a car, the car is destroyed. The driver of the SUV is usually unhurt and drives away. So by all mean, enjoy your energy absorbtion. I am not into replacing parts on a weekly basis.

Another thing. The ski tips are NOT FOR LIFTING. This is straight from the polaris rep. You are to pull or lift from the spindle.

Define, "average stuff".

 

[mountainhorse]

TCP Bumper...Dollar for Dollar best mod for the IQ-RMK's

I dont understand this bumper kick a lot of you are on. The bumper on the dragon will push over small green things no problem. Now if your hitting something that is going to make the sled stop suddenly, where is the energy from impact going? A plastic bumper will help absorb that energy. The metal is going to let your aluminum bulk head absorb it.

T4T... I can understand where you are coming from, and the logic is good but I don't agree with your evauation.

If it were just a matter of replacing a bumper or lifting the sled in a different way.... no problem... but the real world of mishaps plain happens.... getting bucked from your sled on a good hill climb and hittng a tree, hitting a ditch, find that rock under 3 feet of fresh pow, hard boondocking etc...

T4T is dead on with the energy absorbtion. Why do you think they make crush structures on cars, race cars and so on? To absorb energy to protect the driver or the main part of the vehicle. The TCP bumper will withstand more impact, no question there. It will however be more determental to the blukhead/chassis though when you compare the two. Pick your poison with this one. I will keep the plastic stocker and replace as necessary.

Although there are cars out there with sacrificial designs, the Polaris IQ's dont have this feature. In a car, the "crush structure" is desgned to absorb impact and protect the driver, who is strapped into the car... the crush structure is designed to totally sacrifice the chassis to protect the driver.... on a sled, hit something and watch how far you fly!!

The TCP bumper will actually tie together and help to reinforce the bulkead on your RMK.

The bumper/fender/panel assembly on the IQ is just plain weak. The bumper itself is held to the fenders by 6 small screws (#9 and #12 in the diagram below), the fender has just small nibs for these screws to mount to. I have personally watched 2 different IQ-RMK's (a 2006 and a '07 Dragon) get their bumpers ripped out and part of the fenders plus hood damage when people were getting their sleds unstuck in west coast snow... Polaris is ALSO in the business of selling parts... and they make a very tidy profit doing so.

I have the bumper on my sled, I was the first person to get the production version. Trust me, before I lay down my hard earned cash, I do a lot of looking into the pros and cons... From the perspective of my engineering degree and 20 years of fabrication and mechanical installation experience. Before I added the TCP bumper I had broken 2 sets of plastic bumpers and fenders + other stuff from minor wrecks. If you hit anything hard enough to bend an IQ-RMK bulkhead with the TCP bumper installed, you would have done a lot more $$ damage to the sled than just bulkhead/tunnel assembly costs on a 2007-2008 RMK (which, by the way is only $1049.00).

If you center-punch a tree on an IQ RMK with a stock setup at anything over 10 MPH and you will take out the plastic bumper ($42) the nosepan ($210) The front screen ($34) The air-dam ($78) The right fender ($157) The left fender ($157) The exhaust Pipe ($305 stock or $600 for aftermarket) The hood hinge ($45) Misc springs, rivets etc (about $60).

If you can do the work yourself, tear off a whole weekend for this work, 1-2weeks to get the parts in. If you have to pay a shop, tear off another $600 - $800 for the repairs... not to mention the tow out and lost riding time.

Now this is not a complete list, if you hit something harder, you will break hood, the enginge loose, trash the mounts, airbox etc...

I know this from actual experience.

If you WERE to bend the bulkhead with the TCP bumper installed, you would have bent the bulkhead anyway in your stock sled (no TCP bumper) and ruined a lot of other stuff as well.

According to Mike Vanamburg, a specialist in snowmobile chassis fabrication, as well as Mark Holz, the Polaris IQ-RMK's are the strongest bulkheads out there.

Clicky for the link to TCP's website bumper page. http://www.tricityperformance.net/eshopprod_cat_2332-18092-18093-24214_product_333681.IQ_FRONT_BUMPER.htm

It is one of the best pieces of fabrication out there. Not a simple item to make as some have been suggesting. Theres at least 2 hours of welding and a good amount of aluminum in the bumper (expensive these days) plus countless hours of fitting and R&D on this setup. All jig welded and Very, Very sturdy!

Some have commented on the price, but if you see the fabrication, the completeness of the kit and the homework that went into this, you will not object to paying the same as you do for a pair of PLASTIC skis or pipe for your sled.

The hood hinges just like stock with the TCP bumper kit. Install was very straight forward with good instructions. About a push for wieght compared to stock and you remove all of the heavy plastic stuff.

This is not just an aluminum tube that is bolted to the bulkhead... more like an Extension of the chassis that protects the pipe and hood in the event of a bump with a tree (doesn't take much on an IQ to cause $1000 in plastic/engine damage) or "finding" those early season stumps or rocks with your new RMK.

If you are running a Turbo on your 600/700/800 I would consider this piece of protection MANDATORY to keep everything together. If you hit something without the TCP, get ready to watch that new Garret or Aerocharger pop thru your nice new stirrup vent.

Unlike the REV XP's.. The IQ's do not need a sacrificial front end to protect the others. Any hit big enough to cause damage to the bulkhead with the bumper installed would destroy the bulkhead anyway... and take a lot more with it.

I've seen some IQ RMK's stuck in deep snow and had the bumper pulled off from trying to get the sled unstuck. Floatation is still very good with the bumper installed. The nosepans are not needed on this chassis to keep the sled above the snow.

I polished mine, but the coating that TCP applies to these bumpers is much better at keeping the ice and snow from building up.

IMO, Dollar for Dollar one of the best mods you can do for your IQ-RMK. (And yes Rob, your [L=Better-Boards]http://www.f-bombracing.com/BetterBoards.html[/L] are an awesome mod as well)

For those that will ask, NO, TCP does not offer the bumper in Polished finish, I stripped mine, sanded and polished it... what a PITA. I would not do it again... too much ice, then snow sticks to it, powdercoated is better and my next bumper will stay that way.

 

[wildchild]

It is one of the best pieces of fabrication out there. Not a simple item to make as some have been suggesting. Theres at least 2 hours of welding and a good amount of aluminum in the bumper (expensive these days) plus countless hours of fitting and R&D on this setup. All jig welded and Very, Very sturdy!

Looks like its just made out of alum pipe. That runs around 1.00-1.50 a foot. Probally half hour to weld it up.

Realistic price would be more in the $150.00 range by looking at the pictures. Even then there would be a good profit.

 

[RMKRIDER]

I dont think my wife will say a thing about me getting one for my dragon. Last year she loaded her IQ on the trailer to fast, and hit the front of the trailer. It broke the bumper, which in turn shattered every other piece of plastic on the front. It was 200 for the bumper + plastic I replaced, and that was leaving a few things with cracks in them. Think I better just order it so it will be here when my dragon comes in.

I would spend $200 over $390 anyday. The TC bumper is too rigid mounted to the bulkhead.

Sorry to burst your bubble Mountainhorse!

 

[R J]

"average conditions"

You ride, you get stuck in a field, meadow, hill or anything. My general rule of thumb is if it's flat or not needing a turn around to simply have your buddy pull on the ski tip a bit while on the throttle and that's it. Most of the time that works like a champ. If it's on a hill, then I shovel out or simply pull the ski tip again and bring the front end around to get the sled pointed somewhat down hill and that's it.

To be honest, I can honestly say I have never lifted up on the bumper when stuck in the deep stuff to get it unstuck. (meaning using the bumper only) If your sled is in the deep, lifting the bumper extends the shocks and at which point most of the time your are at the limit of your pulling force because most of us can't dead lift a sled up to our chins! (This is in the snow, not in the shop)

I have used the bumper like I said to move it around, pull it on a trailer, into a truck etc. Simple stuff like that. When lifting it high, it's a two guy deal with one on each simple area. For pulling it out of a truck, simply put it in reverse, back up, the sled will go all the way out until the track is on the ground. Then with one quick yank at the back bumper it will be out. Never hitting the tailgate at all.

No matter how good or bad the TCP bumper or the stock bumper is or isn't, I will simply go stock though.

 

[MontanaMike]

I would spend $200 over $390 anyday. The TC bumper is too rigid mounted to the bulkhead.

Sorry to burst your bubble Mountainhorse!

Yah I would rather spend 200 and 390 as well, but I would rather spend 390 than spend 200+ still have a bunch of cracked plastic + next time I bump into something replace it all again.

I realy like the IQs, but the edge could take 10 x the hit on the front that an IQ can. I know a couple times last year if I had been on an IQ instead of my Edge I would have realy busted it up. But this year im on a dragon 800, and I would rather spend 390 and have a strong bumper, then leave it to chance that I wouldnt need it. I would be screwed if I busted a part on that 800 that I couldnt get because they hadnt made them yet.

 

[Good to Go]

Looks like its just made out of alum pipe. That runs around 1.00-1.50 a foot. Probally half hour to weld it up.

Realistic price would be more in the $150.00 range by looking at the pictures. Even then there would be a good profit.

Then make them and sell them and get rich....

 

[SNOBI-WAN-KENOBI]

07' 600 ho

I have an 07' 600 HO still under warranty.My thumb warmer and grip warmer quit working. Any ideas on how to trace this problem?

 

[R J]

Now that is a quick turn in direction of this thread!

For your hand and tumb warmer start at the connections on the handlebars and at the switches. See if you have power at that point and work your way away from the problem.

Always start at the point of the problem. In this case at the grip and thumb warmer. In most cases both items wouldn't be bad at the same time. So next step would be look at the switch and it's wires. There are connections and all you will need is a volt meter and it will tell you a lot of things.

 

[Bagger]

I'll Confess.....

Ok, I'll confess, I got bucked off last year on a slope that would rate about a 3 on the 1-10 pucker scale. Been up it twice already...(it was in the way of getting to a play area)....tried to save it.....Tried being the operative word.
Of course there were two trees in the runout.....the right one was the winner.
The sled was moving about 10 mph when it hit the tree. Broken bumper, striped bumper screw mounting locations.
Now I get to replace all that and then do it again when I "BUMP" something else?
Come on. I understand your point RJ, and we usually see things pretty close (except the whole LDS thing ) but this time I think you are talking apples and oranges.
When a "BUMP" is capable of causing several hundred dollars damage, and I can spend the same amount to "FIX" the problem. Cool.
When an "IMPACT" capable of bending the bulkhead will completely destroy the front of my sled + exhaust + engine? + bulkhead......I'm for trying the bumper.
Also, I'd like to see someone make the bumper, template's, bolts, brackets then powder coat 'em in 1.5 hours. (maybe that guy that fabbed the hitch for the Blazer to pull the 5th wheel could do it).
Snow packed it there? Yeah, we're riding in snow, it packs in everywhere!
Not using the bumper to get a sled unstuck? WHAT?
It's ugly...........that never really stopped anyone before did it? (be honest)
390? 2 hundo in parts that I get to replace again...screwed up trip......lost weekend fixing the damn plastic? (and don't forget the 20 bucks in work beer)

When I figure all this in it's dumb (for me) to NOT do the bumper. Bag

 

[R J]

Why would a bumper ruin a trip? I would never let anything as pointless as a bumper stop me from riding.

I would expect the bumpers to break, crack or bend when hitting a tree. Think about it, the sled is over 500lbs going 10 mph. Thats some energy that I wouldn't want to get hit with if I was standing where the tree is! Let the bumper break.

My edge bumper was cracked all to hell from hits and dings though it's 3000 miles, never once did I think of replacing it. It was split in two and no one ever said a word when "digging out my RMK"!

When I dig out of places I try using one of the things Newton tought us. Leverage and using distance to make things easier. Pulling on the bumper is closer to the mass versus the ski tip which means you will get more effictive work by pulling on the ski tip. I have never seen anyone hook a sno bunji to the bumper to pull it out, they always go to the ski tip! Must be a reason?

Anyways, TCP could have done much better then what they did. It just looks tacky to me!

 

[mountainhorse]

C'mon Kurt...

Looks like its just made out of alum pipe. That runs around 1.00-1.50 a foot. Probally half hour to weld it up.

Realistic price would be more in the $150.00 range by looking at the pictures. Even then there would be a good profit.

Come on Kurt... you're a fabricator...and you make great stuff ...there is a lot of welding going on here and I dont know where you get 2024 aluminum tube for $1.50 a foot. Cutting/notching & bending the 5 pieces of tubing, jigging it up and welding the tubes, cutting/drilling/welding the brackets, fastners, welding, cutting/bending/welding the skid plate to the tubes. Cutting templates for the fender modifcations (plus material cost.. this is a sheetmetal part so the install is top notch... not some flimsy paper pattern). An alumimum pan for the nose to seal the area under the hood and the hinge brackets, plus powdercoating. And all of the trial and error fitting and fabbing the protos, useable jig setup, packaging, instructions, hardware inventory, marketing, boxing/packing materials etc...

Why should an Edge or REV cromo steering post cost $150 to sell? You can build a post for $150 to sell to a customer and this bumper will only cost $10 more???

Especially in light of Plastic skis at $400, Fox Floats running $700, A-arms at $450, spindles at $300, windshields at $60, Plastic airboxes at $300 (that you also have to do some cutting and fitting of), Boss seats at $500 (just a piece of foam and fabric). Billet wheels at $200 - $350 for a set.

Heck, why should a piston and cylinder-head kit run $750 for that matter? A roller clutch for $350, Clutch kits at $300 + ??????

I thought the same thing about tunnels. Why should a one piece tunnel cost $900 plus...

They make them and sell them and get rich....

Yea, I think I saw Max driving a new Ferrari last week!

Also, I'd like to see someone make the bumper, template's, bolts, brackets then powder coat 'em in 1.5 hours. (maybe that guy that fabbed the hitch for the Blazer to pull the 5th wheel could do it).
Snow packed it there? Yeah, we're riding in snow, it packs in everywhere!
Not using the bumper to get a sled unstuck? WHAT?
It's ugly...........that never really stopped anyone before did it? (be honest)
390? 2 hundo in parts that I get to replace again...screwed up trip......lost weekend fixing the damn plastic? (and don't forget the 20 bucks in work beer)

When I figure all this in it's dumb (for me) to NOT do the bumper. Bag

EXACTLY! It's more than a bumper, more like a subchassis that connects to the shock mounts.

The plastic is crippling in price. I'd rather have a more sturdy bumper and "bash-plate" up there protecting the pipe, engine, hood and other expensive plastic.

What ever you guys do, have fun with your sleds and projects.
Looking forward to a great season !!!! Let the snow fly people

Thats my $0.02

 

[Bagger]

That's just it, it's not just the bumper.

RJ, that's just it, it's not just the bumper, it's bellypan, hood and other crap that ends up getting taped back into place and really screws up a ride.
You don't like the bumper, that's cool. I do, and that's cool too.
If we ever get to thrash some snow together, I promise to lead everywhere so you can't see my tacky bumper! Bag.

 

[wildchild]

there is a lot of welding going on here and I dont know where you get 2024 aluminum tube for $1.50 a foot

I mentioned pipe not tube . The price i quoted is what Is the range I pay for it. Do a search on the net for prices, those places will be on the highend of the price list because they sell small lengths.

As far as what else is in the kit I haven't seen the templates ect...
You can cut a sheet of those out in no time on a cnc router or water jet. I'm sure there just not making one part each time.

I know theres lot of parts sold that are over priced. The 1.5 hours is what I figure it would take to make that bumper.

Its a good idea just to bad it held so much snow.

What color was his Ferrari?

 

[mountainhorse]

Man,

I must be bored from the LACK OF SNOW!!!!

I mentioned pipe not tube .
Its a good idea just to bad it held so much snow.

This was a wet heavy snow day
(look at the snow buildup on the Holz rear, plus I polished my bumper which hold more snow than the powdercoated ones)...

Not much on the bumper.

What color was his Ferrari?

I think it was Mint color.... with a lot of decals... and hey, arent those Max's order-taker girls making sure he's got his seat belt on?

430 Challenge at Mugello, Italy 10-07

 

[Ollie]

RJ

theres one type of riding you left out.
Tight trees.
there are quite a few times you can't really get to the ski tips. You reach around the tree, grab the bumper and lift.
In a field, meadow, hill etc, you can get to the front of the sled pretty easy. May not be fun, but you can get to it. There are a lot of times you can't even find the ski tip and I'm not digging down thru the snow to try and find it when all I have to do is lift and pull on the bumper and it's out.

If you don't sled in such a fashion as to really worry about trees, stumps or other stuff like that, or if you are doing insane stuff that if you do crash it's going to completely trash the sled no matter what anyway, then stick to the stock bumper.

I want the extra protection.

 

[AndrettiDog]

The Tri-Cities bumper is a piece of art.
Very highly recommend it.

LG

Wow, that seems like cutting the plastic really exposes a lot of the front end. That plastic is useful for deflecting sticks and other pokey stuff.

The white on the white RMK looks great though.

 

[900RMKRidgerunner]

I have a very talented local cusom fabricator looking into this for me. I agree, the price is too much, but I'll find out for sure soon. I also agree that a 400 pair of skis is too much but I'm also aware of tooling cost for that type of product. The other products you speak of MH are very different in the type of money that goes into tooling and the type of equipment costs involved. I also dont agree that you should charge a marked up premium for R&D time if you are going to spread that cost out over volume. Aluminum tube is cheap. water jetting alum. plate in quantity is cheap. once you build a jig for this, welding time is minimized. R&D costs..... who knows, but it shouldnt be a 200 dollar primium per unit.....

I like it. I agree the bumper on my 900 sucks. I just cant justify 400 for a bumper knowing what it is. If he comes back to me and says its going to be that expensive to have one built than fine.... but for right now, gut tells me that is beyond what it should be priced at.

Seroiusly MH ( I love the MH view and very thankful for your help in the past but this ones crazy)....

what do you think it cost Holz to have an extrusion developed for those ez steer spindles, plus machining cost, and then to annodize them...... they are less money.....

how about the cost for Slydog to develop molds for thier skis..... Tens of thousands of dollars is the answer...... same money

900 for a one piece tunnel. I'll tell you, a break with a 12 foot bed is going to cost you a couple hundred thousand dollars. plus water jet, and I know there is a lot more waist in a sheet than with small components. plus welding....

tube bumper, tube material, minimal scrap. water jet small patterns, minimal waist, pieced jigged together.... come on... 400...

None of your examples is even close. Maybe he isnt making a killing on them. maybe because he isnt moving them in volume that he could be with a reasonable cost. To flatlanders too.......

 

[Ollie]

Wow, that seems like cutting the plastic really exposes a lot of the front end. That plastic is useful for deflecting sticks and other pokey stuff.

The white on the white RMK looks great though.

I was truly amazed at how much stuff isn't in the front end. The plastic has zero support. If you hit a stick (tree branch) or other pokey stuff the platic isn't going to do anything. I don't like to throw money away and I thought the 400 was a little much. That is right up until I truly got into the front end and looked at what was there and priced out what it would cost to replace the plastic. I purchased the bumper.