does anyone have a pc map for the twins? these pipes really work but is there any way to fatin up the mid for the trail ride up?
Does Jim have a map for the SLP Twins
- Thread starter POZZY
- Start date
Depending on your current map flash, where you ride, your sleds setup, and what sensor settings you have going on right now in your system, you'll need anyone one of three maybe four maps.
How do you know your system is lean in the mid "on the way" up? What is going on and what is your complete application?
How do you know your system is lean in the mid "on the way" up? What is going on and what is your complete application?
It’s a 08 800, I ran it last year with the twins with the original late 08 SLP reflash, stock head no porting just pipes, we usually unload around 2500ft and ride up to 6500 7000ft, I was getting pinging and rattling in the mid up the trail even with 30%VP at the end of the season I broke a piston squirt, I believe it was due to the rattling, I am now running the sled stock with the 2010 update and the late 09 reflash, I just bought a pcv, but I still have the twins on the shelf and want to give them another shot, if only I could pour the fuel to it so its safe down low then switch maps up in altitude. I plan on running just the twins the rest stock.
You need more like 50% race at 2500 with the 09 head, If you are running stock compression 2010 heads you have alot more leeway. Did you get the 2010 reflash as well, SLP's map will leave the new deto safety programming alone so you should get shutdown before damage occurs. The mapping isn't lean the problem is with the altitude and the 09 compression ratios. If I were you I would run the ethanol wires unplugged on my way up the hill then plug them in if you do not want to run more race fuel.
Well I can confidently say that unless you buy an EGT and then learn exactly how it works and what the reports mean you are in for a long painful process with your PCV. You are riding in two completely different performance zones of that sleds capability. My experience shows that you need two setups with that wide a variance in alt. There is a wide range of fuel needs depending on the head compression and squish combined with the fuel octane burn rate.
Most likely you were experiencing detonation because your head cut is incorrect for twins when ran with the fuel quality you were running at that state of tune. In 08 the systems didn't have adequate detonation sensing and warning capabilities. Also note the 08 head was higher compression then the 2010 cut plus an entirely different design of dome. 30% race gas on that ratio at 3500-4500 feet in normal winter air say 25* would detonate like crazy with a 13.1 head. My tests show that at that altitude with most common air conditions that we see you need almost 95 octane net when everything else is correctly designed and applicated. If you ran 91 plus 30% VP 110 you were at about 93 and that isn't going to cut it. Especially if you were in any state of lean condition since it appears that a fat condition will mask some conditions of detonation but if you were running in a correct air/fuel ratio. If you ran that like it is flashed now with the new 2010 updated head and sensors you would have gone into a det sensing limp mode and just be chasing a sled that won't run instead of a new top end and possibly jugs if the rings scored things.
Now that is some theory to think on but if I were you I would either commit to doing twins correctly and experience the performance rewards of that system or bag them all together and run your sled in stock mode but tune it up correctly with the PCV and egt's.
Buy an EGT and become competant with it's use (especially for your fuel controller).
Have your old head cut to specs by Carl's Cycles in Boise (the base map you're on now should be fine if you will be using a PCV for fuel) I see wide variances of performance in different heads with different cut patterns and one works far better then all of the rest. (Carl's 208-853-5550 Chris is performance)
The burn rate of the fuel you run is critical to the performance of this application especially with the current sensor setups.
Most likely you were experiencing detonation because your head cut is incorrect for twins when ran with the fuel quality you were running at that state of tune. In 08 the systems didn't have adequate detonation sensing and warning capabilities. Also note the 08 head was higher compression then the 2010 cut plus an entirely different design of dome. 30% race gas on that ratio at 3500-4500 feet in normal winter air say 25* would detonate like crazy with a 13.1 head. My tests show that at that altitude with most common air conditions that we see you need almost 95 octane net when everything else is correctly designed and applicated. If you ran 91 plus 30% VP 110 you were at about 93 and that isn't going to cut it. Especially if you were in any state of lean condition since it appears that a fat condition will mask some conditions of detonation but if you were running in a correct air/fuel ratio. If you ran that like it is flashed now with the new 2010 updated head and sensors you would have gone into a det sensing limp mode and just be chasing a sled that won't run instead of a new top end and possibly jugs if the rings scored things.
Now that is some theory to think on but if I were you I would either commit to doing twins correctly and experience the performance rewards of that system or bag them all together and run your sled in stock mode but tune it up correctly with the PCV and egt's.
Buy an EGT and become competant with it's use (especially for your fuel controller).
Have your old head cut to specs by Carl's Cycles in Boise (the base map you're on now should be fine if you will be using a PCV for fuel) I see wide variances of performance in different heads with different cut patterns and one works far better then all of the rest. (Carl's 208-853-5550 Chris is performance)
The burn rate of the fuel you run is critical to the performance of this application especially with the current sensor setups.
Thanks F-bomb I here what your saying.. I read up on all you auto tune threads, interesting stuff.. Pretty hard to make a map without that and egts, but I also have egts on the shelf from my last sled, and my buddy and me are goings to split an auto tune, now I need a base line map. How much race fuel do you think ill require with the 2010 cut head to be safe for the trail ride up with the wires unplugged, have you guys ever tried running 100LL AV it’s a lot cheaper.
Well as the result of the design of each head they vary in needs and for me they varied widely in performance. I'm hearing some complaining from others on twins with the 2010 head cut as well. Keep in mind there are all kinds of things people do and don't do to mess things up so grain of sand there.
The design is supposed to be specially done to control detonation and then it's also written in the sensor program as well for that system. I don't know the engineering specs I just know that I had to run a higher octane fuel plus lost performance in terms of RPM's on the same vehicle when we did that head. How a head that is designed to control detonation with a lower starting compression ratio requires a higher octane fuel or it detonates then the old style head with a higher compression ratio and less octane to run correctly is beyond me. Obviously the squish or design of the dome just doesn't work as well with twin pipes. So anyway...I'd say get last years head cut to Carl's specs if you want the best outcome along with their ecu and run your pcv off of those baselines.
Now like electrotech said you will have to run 50% at under 3000ft or a net of 95.9-96 octane with a 13.1 to 13.5 head. (what shops call their 30% race gas cut for 5000-8000 customers you need 93.7 - 94) LL100 is a calculated 94 octane but I haven't ran it on this application so can't comfortably advise you there. Also like electrotech stated if you get your sled setup for 4000-7000 you can run 30% or 94 oct net with the Carl's 09 30% head. Send them your ecu for a flash as well. Just be sure to run your eth unplugged and don't push it until you get up in alt. Now you can flood or richen a mix and not have as prevelant a detonation situation so by taking it easy and by running that extra 4-5% of fuel down low you should be fine. If you seek a hot sled (maybe you are racing or what ever) then you need to boost the octane at that compression for that altitude. Keep in mind that 2010 program has a super sensitive det sensor that may code..if you do stick with that head you have to increase your fuel oct (I did by 10% over the other years model to equal the same performance and control det).
The design is supposed to be specially done to control detonation and then it's also written in the sensor program as well for that system. I don't know the engineering specs I just know that I had to run a higher octane fuel plus lost performance in terms of RPM's on the same vehicle when we did that head. How a head that is designed to control detonation with a lower starting compression ratio requires a higher octane fuel or it detonates then the old style head with a higher compression ratio and less octane to run correctly is beyond me. Obviously the squish or design of the dome just doesn't work as well with twin pipes. So anyway...I'd say get last years head cut to Carl's specs if you want the best outcome along with their ecu and run your pcv off of those baselines.
Now like electrotech said you will have to run 50% at under 3000ft or a net of 95.9-96 octane with a 13.1 to 13.5 head. (what shops call their 30% race gas cut for 5000-8000 customers you need 93.7 - 94) LL100 is a calculated 94 octane but I haven't ran it on this application so can't comfortably advise you there. Also like electrotech stated if you get your sled setup for 4000-7000 you can run 30% or 94 oct net with the Carl's 09 30% head. Send them your ecu for a flash as well. Just be sure to run your eth unplugged and don't push it until you get up in alt. Now you can flood or richen a mix and not have as prevelant a detonation situation so by taking it easy and by running that extra 4-5% of fuel down low you should be fine. If you seek a hot sled (maybe you are racing or what ever) then you need to boost the octane at that compression for that altitude. Keep in mind that 2010 program has a super sensitive det sensor that may code..if you do stick with that head you have to increase your fuel oct (I did by 10% over the other years model to equal the same performance and control det).
